Switch Theme:

Archons WW@?! Dark Eldar 8th Edition Tactics!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's striking how pushed the Eldar flyers are in general. Tau and Necron flyers are not very good, and the good Imperium flyers mostly seem to be good by accident. Meanwhile Eldar flyers have access to good traits (a fantastic trait in the case of Craftworld flyers) and tend to be competitive with other choices in the codex even ignoring the Hard To Hit rule.

E.g., a Crimson Hunter kills tanks almost as well as a stationary Fire Prism using the Linked Fire stratagem for the same price, and has the same number of wounds and the same armor save. Everyone knows how much ass Hemlocks kick.

Even with Ravagers getting a bigger buff, Razorwings are still competitive with them. A twin splinter rifle and the missiles are arguably worth as much as a dark lance, and they're otherwise very similar except that the RJF gets Hard To Hit.

Likewise a Void Raven with missiles for 160 is a (slightly tougher) flying Ravager. The scythes average as many hits as a disintegrator with much better strength and a bit better AP, and the lances are dark lances with an edge vs T8. Since the weapons seem to be at least equally good, this means that relative to a 3 DL Ravager you're only paying 20 points for the bomb (or 35 relative to a 3 disintegrator loadout). And the bomb kills 27 points of even a naked Infantry Squad, with an absolutely huge ceiling against more expensive models, and isn't even wasted against vehicles or monsters. Again this seems like a reasonable choice over a Ravager even before Hard To Hit.

Obviously the argument for the Ravager is: it can stay in place and hold objectives, and it stops you from getting tabled. I don't really find this persuasive, though, because Ravagers attract anti-tank fire. You've got to deal with the 10-wound model putting out 9 Primaris-melting shots per turn. The Venoms are at least close enough to hit with your 24" guns, are more vulnerable to S5 and S6, and are themselves at -1 to hit. A Razorwing with roughly the same output is just as threatening. Certainly my experience with Hemlocks is that the tabling thing is not a concern because if your Hemlocks live to turn 3 you're not the one who has to worry about getting tabled.

I guess it's also worth pointing out that tournament results seem to show that you can avoid tabling even with lots of flyers as long as you have a couple of fast characters, though I don't know that all-out flyer spam is a reasonable strategy for Eldar since they don't have anything like a hurricane bolter.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/01 00:45:37


 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





I think we can give the edge to the Razorwing/Voidraven by cool factor alone

Having a nice looking flier in your army as a centier piece is really sweet

   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress






I have 3 voidravens and 4 razorwings. It's fun to have 7 fliers on the board at the same time

Hmmm... I'm thinking 32 reavers, bunch of aircraft, and some wyches.


 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





They got rid of the tabling rule with only flyers on the field. They can’t take objectives, but you don’t auto lose. (If I’m wrong about that, please tell me where it is so I can see it)
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge






USA

How good are mandrakes now really? I used 2 x 10 man teams at the old 19 points. Now at 16 points but unable to benefit from obsessions, I'd say they're about the same. Currently painting all 20 because I know they will see a lot of play.

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 AesSedai wrote:
How good are mandrakes now really? I used 2 x 10 man teams at the old 19 points. Now at 16 points but unable to benefit from obsessions, I'd say they're about the same. Currently painting all 20 because I know they will see a lot of play.


They ysed to be good. Now they are only better.

Also, one of the best models in the game if you are a descent painter.

   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge






USA

 Niiai wrote:
 AesSedai wrote:
How good are mandrakes now really? I used 2 x 10 man teams at the old 19 points. Now at 16 points but unable to benefit from obsessions, I'd say they're about the same. Currently painting all 20 because I know they will see a lot of play.


They ysed to be good. Now they are only better.

Also, one of the best models in the game if you are a descent painter.


I'm a decent painter, so you'll probably like mine. I carefully replaced all their ccw with the more evil looking wych weapon conversions. The balefire and energy swirls are tricky to paint.

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





Hmm, threw together a theoretical quick list for fun.

Spoiler:
Patrol Detachment (Kabal of the Dark Sun)
HQ: Archon W/ Huskblade & Blastpistol [Warlord: Labyrinthe Cunning, Helm of Strife relic]
Troops: 5 Kabalites W/ Blaster
Flier: Voidraven W/ Void Lances&Missiles
Transport: Raider W/ Disintregator Cannon & Shockprow
Transport: Raider W/ Disintregator Cannon & Shockprow
Transport: Raider W/ Disintregator Cannon & Shockprow

Batallion Detachment (Kabal of Flayed Skull)
HQ: Archon W/ Huskblade & Blastpistol
HQ: Archon W/ Huskblade & Blastpistol
Troops: 5 Kabalites W/ Blaster
Troops: 5 Kabalites W/ Blaster
Troops: 5 Kabalites W/ Blaster
Troops: 5 Kabalites W/ Blaster
Troops: 5 Kabalites W/ Blaster
Transport: Venom W/ 2 Splinter Cannons
Transport: Venom W/ 2 Splinter Cannons
Transport: Venom W/ 2 Splinter Cannons
Transport: Venom W/ 2 Splinter Cannons
Transport: Venom W/ 2 Splinter Cannons

Patrol Detachment (Prophets of the Flesh)
HQ: Haemonculus W/ Electrocorrosive Whip [Warlord: Diabolical Soothsayer]
Troops: 10 Wracks

Patrol Detachment (Cult of the Red Grief)
HQ: Succubus W/ Blast Pistol [Warlord: wound roll of 6+ causes an additional mortal wound, Red Grief Archite Glaive relic] +1 attack drug
Troops: 10 Wyches W/ Blast Pistol, Agoniser & Shardnet +1 str drug
Fast: 12 Reavers W/ 4 Blasters & 4 Grav-Talons +1 toughness drug


So an army entirerly in transports, 8+d3 CP(using alliance of agony and extra relic stratagems).

HQ's and 1 5man warrior unit in one raider, wracks and wyches in the other 2.
Seems like it could be a fun list if you HAVE A NEED FOR SPEED.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/01 02:52:27


 
   
Made in is
Angered Reaver Arena Champion





Regarding DE flyers the problem is that they tend to be risky in 4x4 maps as you can't really fly anywhere except in the usual box of the map itself. This means that you'll often be in the enemy zone and if they are careful(and have enough units) they can try to position their troops so you can't place your flyer. If you can't position your flyer it is removed from the game.

Also, Ravagers do benefit more from LOS terrain so if you are used to playing with a lot of terrain they can hunt by limiting the amount of stuff that can see them. Basically I've found Ravagers useful in rich terrain maps and flyers better when people are afraid of using terrain.

However, to be fair most people tend to put very little terrain so flyers tend to be the safer all-around bet. Even I am considering getting one extra of each to play with(and test putting LEDs in).
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






I ran a test game yesterday with the new leaked stuff. Emphasized kabal and wych cult so lots of venoms, kabalites with a blaster, wyches, scourges, mandrakes, and 2 razorwing jetfighters. I also took a blob of 20 kabalites with 4 blasters and 2 lances and another blob of 19 wyches which I deepstruck in. Played against a Tau army which was a very difficult matchup in past editions.

He got first turn and was able to kill both jets and a couple venoms even though I set them out of range of most of his army. I countered and killed almost all the stuff he deepstruck in and then controlled the board from there. He was confined to basically just 2 square feet of the whole table while I was spread out everywhere else.

All my kabal stuff did great, but the wych stuff was disappointing at best for me. Wyches couldn't charge in because of all the overwatch and when I did get the two succubi in, he won both rolloffs to fall back and shoot everything I'd pushed up anyways. Bad luck on that I guess since I only needed to win one of them to save a lot of units. To be fair, I think the strength of wyches will be against hordes and that wasn't really what this opponent was playing.

Opponent still conceded after the 3rd turn because I had a huge point lead playing an ITC mission and I had too many units for him to kill.

I've been playing Dark Eldar since 3rd edition and I have to say this is my favorite codex out of all of them so far. Sure, I wish we had more mobility options on characters (but with reroll advances they do actually keep up pretty well even if you don't give them their own venom or hide them in a raider with other units) and I wish we hadn't lost so many characters last edition. On the other hand, I've never felt like there were so many usable units in the codex and different army builds I can make. I had a hell of a lot of fun and have made lots of different lists that play very differently.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/01 12:16:58


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






Is there any presence of the webway portal in the new codex?

ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

 davou wrote:
Is there any presence of the webway portal in the new codex?

It's a stratagem, and has been since Chapter Approved.
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge






USA

Does anyone have the profile for the shedder?

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 AesSedai wrote:
Does anyone have the profile for the shedder?


This guy?

If I recall, he is now D6 shots and some form of reroll. (To wound?)

Never mind: Shredder now assault D6 and now has ap-1

[Thumb - shredder.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/01 20:10:12


   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge






USA

Cool, thanks Niiai.

Our relics are awesome, love the black heart reroll 1's to wound aura!

"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams

AesSedai's guide to building a custom glass display case for your figures

Kabal of the Twisting Abyss--Blog Laenea, A Tendril of Hive Fleet Hydra--Blog

Always looking for games in/near Raleigh! 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Same point cost, strength range and ability, now assault D6 and AP-1.

Seems ok, good for deep striking a huge block of warriors down for sure. Drop 20 warriors, scythe down tons of infantry, then fire and fade to either block counterattack or press the advantage.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 lessthanjeff wrote:
I ran a test game yesterday with the new leaked stuff. Emphasized kabal and wych cult so lots of venoms, kabalites with a blaster, wyches, scourges, mandrakes, and 2 razorwing jetfighters. I also took a blob of 20 kabalites with 4 blasters and 2 lances and another blob of 19 wyches which I deepstruck in. Played against a Tau army which was a very difficult matchup in past editions.

He got first turn and was able to kill both jets and a couple venoms even though I set them out of range of most of his army. I countered and killed almost all the stuff he deepstruck in and then controlled the board from there. He was confined to basically just 2 square feet of the whole table while I was spread out everywhere else.

All my kabal stuff did great, but the wych stuff was disappointing at best for me. Wyches couldn't charge in because of all the overwatch and when I did get the two succubi in, he won both rolloffs to fall back and shoot everything I'd pushed up anyways. Bad luck on that I guess since I only needed to win one of them to save a lot of units. To be fair, I think the strength of wyches will be against hordes and that wasn't really what this opponent was playing.

Opponent still conceded after the 3rd turn because I had a huge point lead playing an ITC mission and I had too many units for him to kill.

I've been playing Dark Eldar since 3rd edition and I have to say this is my favorite codex out of all of them so far. Sure, I wish we had more mobility options on characters (but with reroll advances they do actually keep up pretty well even if you don't give them their own venom or hide them in a raider with other units) and I wish we hadn't lost so many characters last edition. On the other hand, I've never felt like there were so many usable units in the codex and different army builds I can make. I had a hell of a lot of fun and have made lots of different lists that play very differently.


Awesome, thanks for the feedback. Did you run shard nets at all? I wish succubus could take the standard wych weapons, this would increase their utility by a ton. More then a bike IMO. Sounds like you were mostly running standard wyches, thats a rough match for them facing tau, the overwatch is the literal worst case scenario and then on top of that so much of the stuff has fly. Shardnets would have helps, but only if you can get in first. Either way, I am sure the cult stuff did it's job, cult and coven do the same task really. Cult has the speed and numbers but die in droves while the coven stuff just won't die so often people prefer the coven stuff. I am OK with my cult stuff dying so long as it's taking pressure off my kabal units. They definitely are the harder third of the army though, thats for sure.

EDIT: What Sept was he running BTW? Again, this makes a major difference if he is overwatching on a 5+ lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 05:06:12


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Red Corsair wrote:


Awesome, thanks for the feedback. Did you run shard nets at all? I wish succubus could take the standard wych weapons, this would increase their utility by a ton. More then a bike IMO. Sounds like you were mostly running standard wyches, thats a rough match for them facing tau, the overwatch is the literal worst case scenario and then on top of that so much of the stuff has fly. Shardnets would have helps, but only if you can get in first. Either way, I am sure the cult stuff did it's job, cult and coven do the same task really. Cult has the speed and numbers but die in droves while the coven stuff just won't die so often people prefer the coven stuff. I am OK with my cult stuff dying so long as it's taking pressure off my kabal units. They definitely are the harder third of the army though, thats for sure.

EDIT: What Sept was he running BTW? Again, this makes a major difference if he is overwatching on a 5+ lol.


I didn't run any wych weapons because I wasn't sure if they had price adjustments or rule changes. It was definitely a bad matchup to test the wyches, but I think they'll be more important against enemy hordes especially with the ability to customize strength, toughness, or attacks based on the opponent's list. The only charges I made were from doing so out of LOS though. I'm either going to run them again in my next game or test a reaver heavy wych list that tries to make first turn charges instead. In the game I played, he was using Sa'Cea which actually worked very well for his markerlight sources and broadsides with rail rifles. The plethora of smart missile systems were still the bane of my existence.

The other unit that can handle hordes pretty well is mandrakes. With their 2 shots each, 3 attacks in combat (now with ap -1), and new price drop they can actually kill a lot of models for a decent price point (up to 7 per mandrake without strategems if you roll super hot). I'm still lukewarm on the coven stuff mostly because I"m not big on wracks though. I will caution that it does get tricky keeping track of which units have which buffs. I'm going to be repainting/buying new stuff so I can get different colored units to better keep track.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 lessthanjeff wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:


Awesome, thanks for the feedback. Did you run shard nets at all? I wish succubus could take the standard wych weapons, this would increase their utility by a ton. More then a bike IMO. Sounds like you were mostly running standard wyches, thats a rough match for them facing tau, the overwatch is the literal worst case scenario and then on top of that so much of the stuff has fly. Shardnets would have helps, but only if you can get in first. Either way, I am sure the cult stuff did it's job, cult and coven do the same task really. Cult has the speed and numbers but die in droves while the coven stuff just won't die so often people prefer the coven stuff. I am OK with my cult stuff dying so long as it's taking pressure off my kabal units. They definitely are the harder third of the army though, thats for sure.

EDIT: What Sept was he running BTW? Again, this makes a major difference if he is overwatching on a 5+ lol.


I didn't run any wych weapons because I wasn't sure if they had price adjustments or rule changes. It was definitely a bad matchup to test the wyches, but I think they'll be more important against enemy hordes especially with the ability to customize strength, toughness, or attacks based on the opponent's list. The only charges I made were from doing so out of LOS though. I'm either going to run them again in my next game or test a reaver heavy wych list that tries to make first turn charges instead. In the game I played, he was using Sa'Cea which actually worked very well for his markerlight sources and broadsides with rail rifles. The plethora of smart missile systems were still the bane of my existence.

The other unit that can handle hordes pretty well is mandrakes. With their 2 shots each, 3 attacks in combat (now with ap -1), and new price drop they can actually kill a lot of models for a decent price point (up to 7 per mandrake without strategems if you roll super hot). I'm still lukewarm on the coven stuff mostly because I"m not big on wracks though. I will caution that it does get tricky keeping track of which units have which buffs. I'm going to be repainting/buying new stuff so I can get different colored units to better keep track.


No price changes.

Shardnet now gains the additional ability that a unit wishing to fall back from a wych unit containing a Shardnet now only rolls a D3 for the purposes of No Escape (I did this in my game where I purposefully did not kill one Stealth Suit to try and stop them falling back, and they beat me with their D3 anyway <.<

Razorflail now exchanges its reroll to hit with +D3 additional attacks (on top of the previous existing bonus attack).

Hydras unchanged.

The weapons are now a much more interesting set of choices. Its almost always useful to include one shardnet (unless you're like a 20-blob of Strife wyches that's just going to shred everything you touch), and the other two are situational depending on drug and cult. Cursed Blade tends to like the new Razorflails, Strife likes Hydra Gauntlets.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




NC, USA

Opinions - for transports, does the 6+++ durability of Black Heart make up for the reroll 1s to hit of Flayed Skull? I was considering Flayed Skull a no-brainer, but I am getting the sense that unless it's nerfed, we need a Black Heart detachment for the Agents of Vect stratagem. If I can consolidate into a Black Heart brigade instead of my current WIP list of Flayed Skull Battalion, Red Grief Outrider, and Black Heart Air Wing, that would be convenient.
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut





What about the Haemunculus coven? I can't find online news about specific stratagems for them (other than the ones previewd in WH community) or the stats of all the weapons they own. Talos and Grotesques have like a dozen of different index equipments and they are all useless with complicated rules. I'm afraid they are going to struggle against multi wound targets.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Talos has that new equipment, but mathwise is not that great compared to the macroscalpel, even against vehicles. Or maybe I missed something...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/02 13:45:04


 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 Chippen wrote:
Opinions - for transports, does the 6+++ durability of Black Heart make up for the reroll 1s to hit of Flayed Skull? I was considering Flayed Skull a no-brainer, but I am getting the sense that unless it's nerfed, we need a Black Heart detachment for the Agents of Vect stratagem. If I can consolidate into a Black Heart brigade instead of my current WIP list of Flayed Skull Battalion, Red Grief Outrider, and Black Heart Air Wing, that would be convenient.


The reroll of ones is only for rapid fire weapons, so if your not using a ton of gun boat squads or venoms and instead are using more ravagers or min squads in raiders I would say it isn't nearly as useful as the 6+++ especially when you consider the other buffs the archon is getting for being black heart. Flayed skull really begs you to go all in on venom spam or fully kitted warrior raider squads to get the bets mileage.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 DarklyDreaming wrote:
What about the Haemunculus coven? I can't find online news about specific stratagems for them (other than the ones previewd in WH community) or the stats of all the weapons they own. Talos and Grotesques have like a dozen of different index equipments and they are all useless with complicated rules. I'm afraid they are going to struggle against multi wound targets.


Talos:

+1A base
Significant point drop (I forget the exact value, less than the 37 points the cronos went down I think maybe 15-20 for the body of the Talos)
All melee weapons grant +1A if you have one (effectively, you get -1A if you take the liquifiers)
Macro-scalpel gains additional -1 AP
One weapon got changed to a Powerfist type weapon, with x2S, -1 to hit, and I think flat 3 damage like a dread CCW. Unclear whether this is a totally new weapon (The Hand type one from the kit) or a replacement of one of the existing talos weapons.
Guns all got price drops (Heat Lances down to 12 or 13pts, haywire now 7pts, Splinters now 10). Didnt get a leak on if the stinger got a change.

Other Coven stuff:

Liquifiers down 3 points.
Ossefactors down to 7 points, rule clarified so that it only causes a max of 1 mortal wound (many people played like this already, others had convoluted rules argument to argue that it could cause infinite mortals if you kept rolling 4+)
"Many" existing melee weapons go down in points, unclear what's up there.

Urien Rakarth now 90 points
Gains extra +1S aura, also gets the excellent Prophets of Flesh WL trait (Reroll invuln saves of 1 within 6") so has 3 auras.
Loses his base 4++, because he gets the PoF +1 to invuln trait.
Now halves damage, rounding up, rather than his current reroll thing aura.

Basic Haemie now 70pts (minus 7 or 8 I believe)

Wracks -2pts base cost

Grots up 1 point, but gain 1 wound and I think something else statwise EDIT: One poster believed that the Cleavers gained an additional AP, but they might have been confusing the Monsterous Cleaver with the Macro-Scalpel, which got the same buff. it's possible both cleavery weapons went up to -2AP base.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 14:27:34


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




NC, USA

 Red Corsair wrote:


The reroll of ones is only for rapid fire weapons, so if your not using a ton of gun boat squads or venoms and instead are using more ravagers or min squads in raiders I would say it isn't nearly as useful as the 6+++ especially when you consider the other buffs the archon is getting for being black heart. Flayed skull really begs you to go all in on venom spam or fully kitted warrior raider squads to get the bets mileage.


Either way it's a core of Kabs + Blasters in Venoms, Dissie Ravagers, and Haywire Scourge. I don't think the 6+++ would offset the -1 to hit on the Venoms so I'm still planning to run Venoms for the time being.
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

the_scotsman wrote:
 DarklyDreaming wrote:
What about the Haemunculus coven? I can't find online news about specific stratagems for them (other than the ones previewd in WH community) or the stats of all the weapons they own. Talos and Grotesques have like a dozen of different index equipments and they are all useless with complicated rules. I'm afraid they are going to struggle against multi wound targets.


Talos:

+1A base
Significant point drop (I forget the exact value, less than the 37 points the cronos went down I think maybe 15-20 for the body of the Talos)
All melee weapons grant +1A if you have one (effectively, you get -1A if you take the liquifiers)
Macro-scalpel gains additional -1 AP
One weapon got changed to a Powerfist type weapon, with x2S, -1 to hit, and I think flat 3 damage like a dread CCW. Unclear whether this is a totally new weapon (The Hand type one from the kit) or a replacement of one of the existing talos weapons.
Guns all got price drops (Heat Lances down to 12 or 13pts, haywire now 7pts, Splinters now 10). Didnt get a leak on if the stinger got a change.

Other Coven stuff:

Liquifiers down 3 points.
Ossefactors down to 7 points, rule clarified so that it only causes a max of 1 mortal wound (many people played like this already, others had convoluted rules argument to argue that it could cause infinite mortals if you kept rolling 4+)
"Many" existing melee weapons go down in points, unclear what's up there.

Urien Rakarth now 90 points
Gains extra +1S aura, also gets the excellent Prophets of Flesh WL trait (Reroll invuln saves of 1 within 6") so has 3 auras.
Loses his base 4++, because he gets the PoF +1 to invuln trait.
Now halves damage, rounding up, rather than his current reroll thing aura.

Basic Haemie now 70pts (minus 7 or 8 I believe)

Wracks -2pts base cost

Grots up 1 point, but gain 1 wound and I think something else statwise EDIT: One poster believed that the Cleavers gained an additional AP, but they might have been confusing the Monsterous Cleaver with the Macro-Scalpel, which got the same buff. it's possible both cleavery weapons went up to -2AP base.



I thought Diabolical Soothsayer, the +D3 Command Points, was the Prophets of Flesh warlord trait?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Chippen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:


The reroll of ones is only for rapid fire weapons, so if your not using a ton of gun boat squads or venoms and instead are using more ravagers or min squads in raiders I would say it isn't nearly as useful as the 6+++ especially when you consider the other buffs the archon is getting for being black heart. Flayed skull really begs you to go all in on venom spam or fully kitted warrior raider squads to get the bets mileage.


Either way it's a core of Kabs + Blasters in Venoms, Dissie Ravagers, and Haywire Scourge. I don't think the 6+++ would offset the -1 to hit on the Venoms so I'm still planning to run Venoms for the time being.

I'm with Red Corsair, transports benefit more from Flayed Skull, Flyers and Ravagers get more from Black Heart.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/02 14:43:33


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Son of a gun - you're right, Imateria, he would get the +CP trait. I had it mixed up, the reroll 1s to invuln aura trait is a generic trait you can take on any haemonculus (it's just awesome with PoF). Of the three unique traits though, PoF probably get the best one.

As to stratagems, here's what we have leaked:

1CP: one unit gets +1 to the PFP chart for the turn
1CP: a unit throwing a grenade throws a haywire grenade, dealing D3 mortal wounds to a vehicle
1CP: A wych cult unit with Fly that passes over an enemy unit can perform a flyby attack. Roll a die for each model in the wych cult unit, on a 6 (5 or 6 vs infantry) you deal a mortal wound.

Side note: Hellions cap out at a max unit size of 20. This is a totally unrelated note to the stratagem mentioned above.

1CP: A monster or grotesque regains D3 wounds.
1CP: Fire and Fade, move 7" immediately after shooting but can't charge.
2CP: Fall back and still shoot, identical to Eldar one.
2CP: Select a Coven unit, reroll wounds in the fight phase with that unit.
1CP: On hit with a PGL, roll 3D6 vs LD, if you beat it deal D3 mortal wounds.
2CP: Poisoned Tongue Only, redeploy 3 units during deployment.
1CP: Cursed Blade only, if unit is in cover and gets charged, 4+ to cause D3 mortal wounds (Identical to Catachan Traps stratagem)
2CP: Red Grief Only, 6in consolidate towards your vehicle to get back in.
3CP: Strife Only, The fight again one
3CP: Black Heart Only, Agents of Nope
1CP: Obsidian Rose only, Failure is Not an Option
2CP: Dark Creed Only, Esoteric Kill From Afar
1CP: Coven of Twelve only, Deliver Punishment
2CP: Prophets of Flesh Only, Tide of Wracks

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






The prophets of flesh is definitely the +d3 CP's.

Also, pretty certain HL is 12 and haywire B is 8. Wracks might not be -2. There are a lot of pieces to the picture out there, but not a whole one so I feel there are a lot of misinformed posts muddying things up a bit. For example there is a thread over at TDC where one poster transcribed the BOLS video and posted some things that were way off the mark. So be careful, I'd advise people to take everything with a mild dose of skepticism and to watch any leak videos for themselves.

Wracks used to be 10 PPM but you had to by the wracks tools for +1, so if wracks went down to 9 base they would still cost 10ppm if you still are required to purchase their basic weapons. This is one example of where people are getting ahead of themselves.

Books will be in are hands soon enough though, and we have plenty of solid info to keep us scheming until then.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






A note about transports as well: Assuming the rule from the index does not change, and transports can still transport all Drukhari, it may behoove you to consider taking transports from a different subfaction for benefits.

Black Heart, Flayed Skull, and Dark Creed offer many more interesting benefits to transports than many of the others. If you include, for instance, the popularly talked-about Black Heart airwing detachment to unlock Agents of Nope, you might consider taking 3 BH transports to get that 6+++ to transport your wyches or wracks.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






@the_scotsman, not your fault as I said over at TDC there are some posters sharing lists and tactics claiming he has the reroll 1's to invuln trait.


BTW do you know if the fly by stratagem requires the unit to have advanced?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does the airwing detachment have transport slot options?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/02 15:17:23


   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Is the Haemonculus warlord trait re-rolling invuln saves of 1 or is it re-rolling FNP saves of 1? One is much, much better than the other.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: