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 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Well, my terminators performed pretty well today. Two wins, not bad all things considered. I hope BA gets their reduction in price soon...

I hope a lot of the BA specific equipment gets a price drop soon. A lot of it feels very overcosted. Has anybody heard any rumors on when our Codex might drop?

One thing I have noticed, is that my Knights of Blood perform much better in objective based games versus Killpoint games. Has anybody else had that experience?

Not surprised that much, BA still use the index which don't have all the special rules and bonuses that SM (and CSM by extension) got.

Coupled with overpriced stuff and killing stuff seems to be wanting.

I'm still miffed that Death Company aren't Fearless.

Well, the last 10 pages were... interesting....

I've been playing against my buddy once a week, and he mostly plays Death Guard. So it's been a bit of a learning experience, but I get to deal with a combination of hoard (poxwalkers), stronger units (T5 and DR 5+ save), larger targets (rhinos, land raiders, daemon princes, etc), and smite spam.

For the life of me, I can't believe that pretty much all of DG gets 5+ and only our DC-specific units (all three) are 6+. But I'm sure I'm not the only who thinks that.

Sanguinary Guard have been clutch with a priest as warlord. Unfortunately, the model kit kinda gimps you with the included weapons, so I have 3 of the bolters, one plasma, and an inferno on my ancient. Despite what seems to be the consensus here, the assault 2 bolters aren't terrible, and it's nice having some variety for their weapons.

I've been using a spearhead detachment consisting of a Baal Pred (flamestorm) defending two Whirlwinds (both vengeance) and they've been working for me so far. Might not be optimal, but I don't play competitive.

Scouts have been helpful. I've been using two squads each equipped with two snipers, a bolter, a shotgun, and a heavy (bolted or rocket launcher). 2+ in cover has made them, at best, a nuisance for my opponent, or at the very least, a speed bump.

Death Company are hit and miss, as others have mentioned. Deep strike doesn't usually work as intended, so I've been keeping 5 with jump packs in a Stormraven with Lemmy and a DC dread. One plama/power sword, one thunder hammer, and 3 with chain swords and bolt pistols for wounds. They've been good as long as I can make the charge.

Objective Secured works against our army, I feel. It almost forces me to build an army around a battalion detachment of either two scouts and a tactical, or two tacticals and one scout. I feel like our army shines with the elite choices, so I'm hoping GW does something to make assaults or DC count as troops, but doubt that will happen.

How are you finding the flamestorm Baal Pred? Seems too close range for me, I feel like I'd have a hard time utilizing it to it's full potential.

Re: ob.sec., Tacs and scouts don't really shine in any army. Ball is in GW's court to make the rest of the army worth a damn so we can balance the shiny with objective holding power.

When I first tried using the Whirlwinds against him, he rushed them with his two bloat drones, so they were constantly retreating from melee, effectively rendering them useless.

Flamestom is good that it deters the rush with insta-hits, and I put the three vehicles in a way that they need to go through the Predator first. Again, it's probably not optimal for competitive play, but we're playing 2500 point games, so 500 points for the detachment plus the added command point don't really hurt me too much.

I hear you, my main opponent is Death Guard in a casual environment as well. I see your point about auto-hits but I would likely still be tempted to put twin assault cannons with heavy flamer sponsons instead; you still get 2D6 insta-hit overwatch for deterrent and have 24" range with a dozen shots to have a wider sphere of influence around your whirlwinds.

Ugh yeah. Death Guard. Had my first game against a full Death Guard army just a little bit ago. It was close, my long range firepower was the only thing that even gave me a fighting chance.

The amount of Mortal Wounds DG pump out makes it hard to make close combat a viable tactic... And the 5+ Disgustingly Resiliant is insane. Typhus on 2 wounds left was able to shrug off the 5 Krak Missiles that hit and wounded between his Invul and Disgustingly Resiliant rolls, he only ended taking 1 wound and lived.

I am going to have to shelve them for now if I want to have a chance in our weekly 1,500 point tournaments and play my Guard. Waiting for our Codex to try and make my army worth fielding again.

Anyone know of why all these rumors of Sanguinius being revived came about? The BA Facebook groups seem to be thinking he'll be back when the codex drops....

It's just following a trend. As we've seen so far it's been 1:1 for loyalist vs traitor primarch. The traitor ones could well correlate with their chaos god, so death guard, t-sons, world eaters, pretty marines may well get one. (kinda makes sense for the 4 chaos gods right?) Hence, there needs to be 4 worthy loyalist chapters to similarly receive a primarch. The back of the index 1 imperium lists the 4 main loyalist factions as Ultras, DA, BA, Wolves, which makes sense as they've had the most love. Each army has unique tac squads (maybe barring DA) and unique specialist squads, hence it can be safe to assume they're GW's "main" 4 loyalist chapters.

Hence, Lion, Russ and our man Sanguinius should all make a comeback, following behind Guilliman.


However, I seriously hope not.

1) If the black rage involves hallucinations of Sanguinius' death, how confused are the DC going to be when he turns up leading the force? His return would really do weird things with the DC.
2) I don't think they'd revise that bit of 40k lore. It's kinda a staple of the Horus Heresy story, and very much a part of the BA's identity.
3) We have so many frankly awesome HQs already, that can all see play and have a place in the game. I fear Sanguinius would supersede some of these, namely dante/sanguinor.
4) At least in my mind, BA are not a "character army". They need regular boots on the ground, and it's the nature of these boots (assaulty, in your face, pretty codex compliant) that really defines the army, not solely their characters. (At least in my mind, feel free to correct that.)
5) Realistically, I think other primarchs would be nice, especially if we're limited to just the 4. Jaghatai could be really good, as the White Scars could do with a bit more flavour and the fluff is pretty set up for his return.
6) If they do revive him, what are the implications for the rest of the lore? Can anyone come back from the dead? Are there ANY consequences anymore? Why should we bother caring about character deaths?
7) One thing I like about BA is they are multifaceted. A fast army of baals/razors with some tacs and foot assault is just as "Blood Angels" as a full death company force, which is similarly as "Blood Angels" as an airwing with stormravens and a bit of sanguinary guard action. However, all of these are distinctly different. I'd expect a primarch to cover everything their chapter and successors (flesh tearers?) embody. I think Guilliman does this well, but how would Sanguinius? How would the model represent all these aspects, let alone how would the rules?

It would be really, really awesome to have him back, but I think he should stay dead. Miss you Big S, miss you man.

I would love to get the Modell. But I believe he should stay dead, too.
Instead make Mephiston, Dante and Sanguinor the Monsters they deserve to be!

I'm willing to bet that, GW being the business that they are, they're going to release the four primarchs tied to the four big chaos gods. Angron, Fulgrim, Mortarion, and Magnus, the latter two both already released obviously.

It is a logical step to assume the 'big four' on the loyalists side will also be the first to receive their primarchs; Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Ultramarines (Obviously once again on the Ultramarines having Guilliman released already).

These four loyalist armies make GW money. I'm willing to bet lots of money, and each primarch release thus far has sold well, selling out in many cases that I'm aware of, with people having to wait on a model to be produced in subsequent production runs to acquire. I know my local FLGS was only able to get 3 or 4 Mortarion boxes in and all were spoken for by local players.

People may hate the thought of it, but it's looking increasingly like Sanguinius will be resurrected or returned in some form via rebirth or being returned from the dead, perhaps as a darker, more sinister version of himself, battling the red thirst within himself, now amplified by the black rage, carved into his very genes by Horus's betrayal.

I like the prospect of it, to be honest. I also think, if propery explored, the return of Sangunius has a lot of potential to be an amazing bit of story.

We'll see. Odds are good we'll see the Lion, or Russ next. Sanguinius may return sooner rather than later though. It's new school GW, and curve balls may yet be thrown.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Hey all! I'm looking at potentially starting BA as my next new army. I really lack anything melee so wanted it to be a big focus of whatever list I put together. I've shoved together a little list of some of the models I really liked the look of as a basis for 1000 points:

- Lemartes
- Librarian Dreadnought
- 2 x 5 Death Company /w Jump Packs (mixed power weapons, 1 thunder hammer)
- 5 Sanguinary Guard
- Ball Predator with Assault Cannon and H.Bolters

Big problem I can already see is that I'd want more than half of these deploying in orbit, so would likely have to slog the SG up the board and hope they aren't shot to bits. This also comes in at around 950~ points, so any suggestions to move things around or top things up are welcome!

It's always nice to have some shiny cool toys but that tiny amount of miniatures means you'll be blasted off the board or swarmed with ease. The SG especially give an enemy an easy answer to "what should I shoot first?". Is your anti armour/MC basically smite and a thunder hammer?

 Puganaut wrote:

4) At least in my mind, BA are not a "character army". They need regular boots on the ground, and it's the nature of these boots (assaulty, in your face, pretty codex compliant) that really defines the army, not solely their characters. (At least in my mind, feel free to correct that.)

I know what you're trying to say but we're a very character heavy army because at the moment we need all the special bubble-buffs to make our boots on the ground work. We've also got a whole bunch of special named and unique characters for the army, so that's my take on it all.

I'm with you though, I don't think Sanguinius should return. I do think Dante, the oldest living chapter master, should get a boost. I also would like to see the Sanguinor maybe rise to the level of an almost reincarnated Sanguinius. Who knows!? Should be interesting to see.

I'm just worried if every marine army but BA gets a lord of war level character we'll just fall off into obscurity, pretty gold suits and all.

I'm not sure we really need that much in the way of bubble-buffs. A few cheap characters with jump packs or slightly more expensive ones with terminator armor, and we're good. On a 2000 point list with one battallion and one vanguard detachment, you'll need maybe three characters to both fill out the HQ slots required, and that's about all you need for your army to perform well as well-- and none of them need to be super expensive special snowflake named characters.

Sanguinary priest, librarian, and chaplain/captain is a pretty good combination, and the three of them with jump packs are about 300 points-- 15% of your list, leaving the other 85% to be killy units these three support.

Make the Sanguinor a beast character.

Bringing back Sanguinius...please just release him for Horus Heresy. A 40k model might just turn me away from Blood Angels all together.

It would be really nice if some of the older model (MEPH PLEASE) got a redo, and our boys in gold got a boost.

Brother B does make a good point though. As a "big 4" army, it would suck if we didn't get some Lord of War... Dante for LoW?

Hopefully we get some compensation with Dante and friends in the codex. Red Thirst makes a good point, it *could* be good if his resurrection could was done well. I'm warming up to the idea, however GW would really need to get some quality writers on it. Hopefully the codex will clear this up?

Sanguinius coming back jumps the shark so emphatically the Sanguinius miniature would need a white tee and black leather jacket. Giving the Sanguinor the LoW treatment makes infinitely more sense. Ideally our patience with the index isn't "rewarded" with bonkers special characters and instead the codex contains a solid army with a plethora of balanced options rather than a cookie cutter list full of named characters.

I agree. The last thing I want is for GW to bring back Sanguinius from the dead. There is plenty of Primarchs that are "lost" rather than dead.

I kind of like the idea of Dante, Mephiston, or The Sanguinor being our beast character.

Personally i'd be for Mephiston being a complete badass. I mean, in all the literature he kills Greater Daemons and is just all around a beast.

I think Dante definitely needs a slight buff imo, after seeing Abbadon, and Calgar.

Well, broke down and got a Librarian for my Knights of Blood. Been playing around with lists, thinking he will get a Jump Pack. Seems to make the mose sense to have him be mobile to support the army. Even thinking of dropping the Captain out of my list and going Chaplain and Librarian for my HQ slots.

Was thinking of giving this a try, I could probably lose a model here and there to fit in a Sanguinary Priest, but mine isn't modelled with a Jump Pack, so it would have to ride in the Razorback and walk over to the Assault Marines to buff them. Seems a waste at that point.



I get that Assault Marines seem pretty trash right now, but I want to see how they do with Librarian support.

 Puganaut wrote:
It would be really nice if some of the older model (MEPH PLEASE) got a redo, and our boys in gold got a boost.

Brother B does make a good point though. As a "big 4" army, it would suck if we didn't get some Lord of War... Dante for LoW?

Hopefully we get some compensation with Dante and friends in the codex. Red Thirst makes a good point, it *could* his resurrection could be done well. I'm warming up to the idea, however GW would really need to get some quality writers on it. Hopefully the codex will clear this up?

I want him to be resurrected, but not be the noble bright character he was in the Heresy.

I want him to be angry, resentful, and constantly staving off his rage at Horus's betrayal. I want to see what amounts to Death Company Sanguinius, prone to giving in to the Red Thirst and barely holding on through fits of the Black Rage that Horus himself sewed into Sanguinius's very genes.

He would see the Imperium and how far it has fallen from where it once was before Horus ignited the heresy that almost shattered the Imperium that he and his brother primarchs built alongside the emperor.

I want to watch Dante and Mephiston reconcile with their angelic primarch, once a noble and brilliant light in the darkness, instead raging mad with fury and only part of the time a picture of his once noble self. How do they, and the rest of the Blood Angels, deal with seeing their beloved primarch and gene father fall into madness and despair? Can Dante's temperance and Mephiston's conquering of the Black Rage help pull Sanguinius back to at least a shadow of his former glory?

I want to see this, as I feel like it would be riveting story telling woven within the greater story of the current minutes to midnight 40k plot and story advancement.

Just my opinion on that. Thanks for reading, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Red__Thirst

That would be interesting, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing essentially a Death Company Sanguinius. Unlike Rowboat who does a good amount of buffing to his army along with being good in combat, I wonder what a crazed combat only loyalist Primarch would be like? How many attacks would they give him? If he only has 9 Wounds to take advantage of the Character rules, how would they make him durable enough to stand being in the thick of the fighting in a game?

Or would he be designed as a fire and forget ballistic missile whose sole job is to crash into the enemy, killing all he can before death? I agree that if he was brought back, he should not be any where near what he was mentally.

Black Rage Sanguinius? Leading hundrets of DC into the Face of the enemy? Mephiston and Dante anime-like pulling him backwards? That would be so dumb - yet so awesome! xD

I'm all for grimdark Sanguinius, hopefully GW gets Red__Thirst to write him up. Sounds pretty awesome!

Hi guys I have quite a dramatic problem right now:
I've got 30 nice mkIII armour space marines from the burning of prospero set box and three forgeworld weapon kit, namely combi-weapons, plasma gun and heavy flamers. In my mind I wanted to have some nice looking and personalized tactical squads but what if, when our codex is out, assault troops will become again a valid troop choice? Or, even worse, what if we'll have some assault primaris who are 200 times better than our normal regular marinz and we ll succumb to them?
This game is of course also about hobby but I'd be so sad if said marinz would suddenly become useless (AND THESE FORGEWORD WEAPONS KIT ARE EXPENSIVE)

Lol Death Company Reincarnated-zombie-dust Sanguinius leading a force of "loyalist" world eaters with Dante trying to babysit the Primarch like Smithers to Mr. Burns would have me drive to the store for a spray can to cover all the red on my project table. Black...blue... I don't care. Any colour loyal to the Emperor to avenge the hypothetical death of the Blood Angels and kill the newly founded Shark Jumpers chapter that stole all their wargear :p

Sanguinius died, it's a great element of the Blood Angels backstory, don't ruin it.

My favorite blood angel lists these days include basically 0 assault. This edition is almost all shooting based, especially for SM which have no fast monstrous creatures.

Storm ravens, heavy flamer Devs, plasma and every list includes Dante. If you want troops use Scions as our troops are pretty much garbage.

Hey guys,
Can anyone of you see any potent in a 3-5man company vet squads with jump packs, storm bolters and chainswords. I tried a 4man squad (84p) companying my two 3man plasma vets as a cheap vanguard and actually I was stunned how effective they were agaisnt meq. Just one game, but this 84p squad did more wounds than my rapid firing 3man plasma jump vets, although latters have a storm shield. Didn't have armored targets... So had to go against enemy dev squads..

21p, 4 shots at 12" and 3 attacks in combat. In a shooty game of 40k I'm not sure anymore should I bring these or DC with ccw&boltguns. Rough compare, but anyways what do you think, potent point wise?

I agree that our troops aren't the best, but I have had very positive results with 5 man Tactical Squads with Combi-Plasma & Plasma Gun. Two of them in a Rhino is a deceptively good and flexible firebase.

And even though Inferno Pistols are insanely expensive, I have had good results with in combat pistol sniping against Daemon Princes and characters. Along with a Meltagun in the squad, with two of those squads also in a Rhino has been very good at controlling/destroying fast elements of my opponents army (like Plague Drones).

Yeah, Scions could probably do that job better, but Toughness 4 and the 3+ Save has done wonders on keeping them alive. I really don't see my Tactical Squads as a liability anymore. It's just the rest of the army that seems lacking now. All of our specialist troops are far too expensive for what they bring to the fight, and pretty pillow fisted in a fight unless we throw tons of points in special weapons at them.

Xirax wrote:
Hey guys,
Can anyone of you see any potent in a 3-5man company vet squads with jump packs, storm bolters and chainswords. I tried a 4man squad (84p) companying my two 3man plasma vets as a cheap vanguard and actually I was stunned how effective they were agaisnt meq. Just one game, but this 84p squad did more wounds than my rapid firing 3man plasma jump vets, although latters have a storm shield. Didn't have armored targets... So had to go against enemy dev squads..

21p, 4 shots at 12" and 3 attacks in combat. In a shooty game of 40k I'm not sure anymore should I bring these or DC with ccw&boltguns. Rough compare, but anyways what do you think, potent point wise?

To me the only real elite slot option that has always mananed to do his job in all games I played so far despite my absolutely garbage record (2W-12L) are company veterans with jump pack with plasmagun and either ss or chainsword. I back them up with a captain to reroll these ones because I always supercharge! You dont even need to drop 9" from enemy, you can still sit at 12" and unleash some nice damage onto basically anything. 20 plasma shots can annhilate hordes and do some pretty damage to vehicles as well. In a 100 power level game I always bring 2 5 men units and a captain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spado wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Hey guys,
Can anyone of you see any potent in a 3-5man company vet squads with jump packs, storm bolters and chainswords. I tried a 4man squad (84p) companying my two 3man plasma vets as a cheap vanguard and actually I was stunned how effective they were agaisnt meq. Just one game, but this 84p squad did more wounds than my rapid firing 3man plasma jump vets, although latters have a storm shield. Didn't have armored targets... So had to go against enemy dev squads..

21p, 4 shots at 12" and 3 attacks in combat. In a shooty game of 40k I'm not sure anymore should I bring these or DC with ccw&boltguns. Rough compare, but anyways what do you think, potent point wise?

To me the only real elite slot option that has always managed to do his job in all games I played so far despite my absolutely garbage record (2W-12L) are company veterans with jump pack with plasmagun and either ss or chainsword. I back them up with a captain to reroll these ones because I always supercharge! You dont even need to drop 9" from enemy, you can still sit at 12" and unleash some nice damage onto basically anything. 20 plasma shots can annhilate hordes and do some pretty damage to vehicles as well. In a 100 power level game I always bring 2 5 men units and a captain.