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Made in us
Raging Ravener





As a person who loves bladed cog aberrants and has 30 I totally feel the hurt of 30 of them costing 1000 points.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Every time someone mentions Abarrants I can't help but compare them to BGV's and cry a little.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Aberrants need an overhaul if they want them to stay in that price range when the 9th edition book comes.

S5 is good, they could be T5 and I think 3W is a must. 3A also needed. It's hard to justify improving their armor save or FnP, but all around they feel as much of a paper unit as anything else in the army.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





they will probably lose their FNP and get the can't be wounded except on 4+ but that still probably isn't enough.

if they drop 20 points they might be playable.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Honestly if they stay as they are 20 with Pick and 25 with Hammer would be a fine pricerange imo.

If they should remain at 30 then atleast add 1+ a for aberrants and abominants and +1 t.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





The way the amount of attacks are going im hoping for base 4+ on these guys
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





dreadlybrew wrote:
The way the amount of attacks are going im hoping for base 4+ on these guys


That would step on the acolythes and metamorphs toes tho.

I think it'd be better if they'd get a better quality Heavy Melee attack capability and the toughness to stand and wither something down. Like the shock troops they are supposedly.

As an aside,if one just compares them in a bubble, the most identical unit i know is the CSM terminator, fullfills the same role, is cheaper, and quite a bit more durable..
And sure if one then regards the factions design it is arguably a toughness at premium cost case for GSC, but i don't think that some mutants out of the proverbial gutter of the dregs that are GSC should cost more pts than a chaos terminator....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





I kinda hope our over the course of the game thing gives us advance and charge thanks to our genestealer heritage.

maybe letting us add lightning fast reactions.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





As an aside, what are peoples thoughts on the Kelermorph?
I thought about bladed cog (5+/4++) might make it an annoying model to deal with.
He maybee also would work well in tandem with a Acolythe bomb squad.
Other than that we don't really have much that shoots good and potentially could profit from a reroll 1's

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





My thoughts? He works for everyone but me. I shoot with him and routinely only get 6 hits total, that's including his double-shooting, and rolling hits 1 at a time because as soon as he kills a dude he gets to reroll his own 1's to hit. I roll awful.

Even in Bladed Cog, a 4++ isn't much on T3 - he needs to be with dudes.

Now, a big part of this is that my regular opponents are Space Marines and Dark Eldar, so I'm often not getting that close to my opponent without charging them where I can really take advantage of his aura with shooting.

At his current points level; he's way too expensive. He really feels like he could be 45 points right now.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Yarium wrote:
My thoughts? He works for everyone but me. I shoot with him and routinely only get 6 hits total, that's including his double-shooting, and rolling hits 1 at a time because as soon as he kills a dude he gets to reroll his own 1's to hit. I roll awful.

Even in Bladed Cog, a 4++ isn't much on T3 - he needs to be with dudes.

Now, a big part of this is that my regular opponents are Space Marines and Dark Eldar, so I'm often not getting that close to my opponent without charging them where I can really take advantage of his aura with shooting.

At his current points level; he's way too expensive. He really feels like he could be 45 points right now.


i don't think he is that overpriced tbf, but then again i 'd say at 60 pts hed be fine.

my question lies more what with his potentiall reroll 1's for infantry, what units would actually be able to take advantage of that?

Honestly that would probably a case for armor penetration custom trait? but that's giving up mining weapons ignore movement and a 6++

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





I only run the kelermorph has bladed cog or rusted claw. If you give him the amulet to add +1 to his saves against shooting he will get a 3+ invuln and no overwatch. The nice thing about his pistols is he nukes a squad in melee range if her survives . But he will die to a guardsmen unit.
I maintaine that our real problem is we can't bring a desperados vanguard of 3 of them without losing 6+ cp
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Yeah the 5/3++ lucky luke build is fun.

Anyways, is it just me or seem metamorphs just bad / obsolete?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Metamorphs are worse acolyte hybrids. just because they aren't obsec.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





dreadlybrew wrote:
Metamorphs are worse acolyte hybrids. just because they aren't obsec.


There's an interesting caveat to note on this; you only need 1 obsec model at the objective. If your opponent likewise does the same, it goes to total "models", and not total "obsec models". We often have so much obsec that losing a little bit of it for a unit that might do better punching, is something that should be considered! I plan on trying out the metamorphs soon, as I play vs Dark Eldar quite a bit here, and fighting back on death vs them in that matchup seems like it would be very beneficial.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/13 18:33:10


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





sure. But why buy the model with basically the exact same profile that cant take heavy weapons and isn't obsec for the same points?

Also flamers.

They dont have more wounds they cost 3 more points for 1 more attack. for those three points to can make a acolyte hybrid have a flamer and engage in 2 more phases. d6 auto-hitting shots per guy you can fire in melee is worth way more than 1 attack imo
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Spoiler:
I mean, you can equip metamorphs with flamers aswell.
But the standard version with one metamorph talon , normal talon and a Autopistol is 13ppm.

A normal acolythe is 8ppm for basically the same profile, sans the 4th +1 attack.

Msu Metamorphs look at 65 pts that way, which are incidentally 8 acolythes and a point left over.
Metamorphs are then 21 attacks. (5 attacks at 2+)
Acolythes are 25 attacks.

So chaff removal normal acolythes do better.

The ultimate anti chaff build with dual metamoprh talons turns them into 5 A.
Costs 15 ppm. Thats 75 pts for 26 Attacks at 2+ but without AP. And at that pricetag i can start considering Purestrains which are also not so hot units but atleast can advance and charge without babysitting requirements.

Incidentally i can get 9 acolythes 28 Attacks and 3 pts.

I think that dual metamorph talon build can have a place in a horde heavy meta in MSU form (especially their smaller footprint can help them for a deepstrike), incidentally i'd also equip the unit potentially with Handflamers. But again there i am with 17ppm T3 5+ models.

Otoh, i can do the same with Acolythes, troop slots are easier to have many compared to Elite slots. I have other options for a similar insert and tear appart style unit in these slots aswell, between a dagger sanctus and a locus, both of which are better at dealing with bigger things tougher things, and or more CP efficient.
then there's the kelermorph which costs only 5 pts more than a dual Talon squad but is just as effective at tearing things up AND can target Charachters.


Then there's the main issue, targets that they like, aka soft squishy GEQ i can deal with Neophytes Autoguns, Random heavy stubbers i will have lying around anyways because Ridgerunners are a must imo, Goliaths for when i am anyways pulling movement shenanigans (and why wouldn't i with 16 Abberrants) Random Autopistols from acolythes, random flammer pistols from acolythes, etc.

And if they run into anything heavier like marines or other things than their 2+ hits matter little either way since they bounce away from the armour harmlessly but will suffer significant losses against the marines due to T3 and SV5...

In many ways, whatever they excell at is rare to find, they lack significant staying power with a really absurd pricetag too boot. And anything they do i can just do anyways from range better or cheaper with acolythes and other troop units?

That leaves me with Whipmorphs, which i admit, look fun and "durable" of sorts... (also 11ppm cheaper than the normal standard version) but there i only have 3 Attacks either way with the same profile as acolythes....with the exception that i can guaranteed strike in melee.

TL: DR i am honestly hard pressed between to find a good use for Metamorphs which i couldn't do cheaper, better or anyways with a normal GSC list since they excell really only in chaff removal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/17 08:36:56


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Brainy Biophagus Brewing Potent Chemicals






Not Online!!! wrote:

Anyways, is it just me or seem metamorphs just bad / obsolete?


Whip-morphs are still fairly useful as a counter melee/melee piece trade tool. They don't care about fight last abilities since they still get their swings in even if killed before their turn to go, and they are reasonably priced compared to the other configurations (+1 point over an Acolyte for an extra Rending Claw attack and the fight insurance ability). I've seen at least two tournament-minded lists that included whip-morphs, so it isn't just my experiences.

I agree as far as the other configurations go, with the caveat that the main issue is their pricing rather than the underlying stats. If they were to revert to their pre-9th pricing (whip is same as Acolyte, other weapons +1 point) I think they would be decent again.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Whipmorphs sounds like a resonable trade into drukari. just getting them into combat with enough attacks to take out a unit seems far feteched. ill try it out
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I was just poking around in the Drukhari codex and their raiders are just insane. If that is worth 95 points then a Goliath Truck ought to cost like 50.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





canonized wrote:
I was just poking around in the Drukhari codex and their raiders are just insane. If that is worth 95 points then a Goliath Truck ought to cost like 50.


My friends and I approximate that giving us an extra 200 points (10% cut codex-wide) wouldn't even result in a blip of difference. It would take about a 25% slash to make us "competitive". But no point being wishy-washy now! Get as good as you can with what we have right now, because if you can win any game right now, or even just end game as a close loss, you will be a TERROR once our codex gets its 9th ed update.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 18:09:57


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Let's just get +1 to wound for hand flamers on the wish list
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




below is a pure GSC list that went 4-1 at a recent major tournament. Note the flamer metamorphs which were used to absorb Ork/Drukhari charges. Hand flamer over watch combined with whips makes them almost guaranteed to trade squad for squad. .

++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [89 PL, 8CP, 1,645pts] ++

• ⁠Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cult Creed: The Pauper Princes

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

• ⁠Stratagems +

Broodcoven [-1CP]

• ⁠HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 75pts]

Primus [4 PL, 85pts]: Broodcoven Primus, Warlord Trait: Alien Majesty

• ⁠Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 120pts] . 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Rending Claw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 120pts] . 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Rending Claw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 120pts] . 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cultist Knife, 5x Rending Claw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 60pts] . 2x Acolyte Hybrid: 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Cultist Knife, 2x Rending Claw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts] . 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 40pts] . 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cultist Knife, 4x Rending Claw . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

• ⁠Elites +

Hybrid Metamorphs [6 PL, 130pts] . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Hybrid Metamorph: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw . Metamorph Leader: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Whip, Rending Claw

• ⁠Fast Attack +

Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 210pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser

Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 210pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser

Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 210pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser

• ⁠Dedicated Transport +

Goliath Truck [4 PL, 75pts]

Goliath Truck [4 PL, 75pts]

Goliath Truck [4 PL, 75pts]

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [19 PL, -1CP, 355pts] ++

• ⁠Configuration +

Cult Creed: Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor

Detachment Command Cost

• ⁠HQ +

Magus [6 PL, -1CP, 100pts]: Broodcoven Magus, Familiar, Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Might From Beyond, Power: Undermine, Stratagem: The Cult's Psyche, The Crouchling

Patriarch [7 PL, 135pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Psychic Stimulus, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Biomorph Adaptation

• ⁠Troops +

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]: Brood Brothers Leader . 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]: Brood Brothers Leader . 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

++ Total: [108 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Change the popper princess to hive cult and snag the hivelord for that primus
   
Made in de
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman




New to the cult, what is the reason for the BB squad instead of Neophytes?

Edit: in Eds list, that is

2nd edit: someone pointed out, they can do unquestioning loyality regardless of the <CULT> keyword. Then the other question: what offer neophyte hybrids over brood brothers?

3rd and hopefully last edit: neophytes receive the cult tactics, got it myself

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/26 19:56:03


   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




dreadlybrew wrote:
Change the popper princess to hive cult and snag the hivelord for that primus


I don’t think so. That trades rerolls on all close combat attacks for rerolls on 1s on ranged attacks (and even then only if the Primus is within 6”). It also slows the effective move range of the ridgerunners to 6” and keeps the Primus out of play for his close combat capabilities and melee buff. Too valuable a unit to let languish in the back line.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





So to understand this list a bit:

He got four armed for the deny strat and the blender Patriarch ?


Pauper for the rest.
2 x 10 4 cutter acolythes for blending and heavy dutty work
1 x 10 4 saw for the above.
In combination with the bigger aura primus.

Another saw mini squad.
2 normal msu for capping and annoying.
I guess the saw mini squad is there to bully something tougher off an objective? or for a smaller footprint insertion.


the 10 metamorphs with hand flamers he can use like a flamer bomb or as a defensive tool as noted.

I don't get the brood brothers over neophytes.

The 9 ridgerunners are baseline with the alphus i guess. ( i hate the state of such units... that you can't circumvent more or less)

Its imensly versatile, btw is broodcoven allowed over multiple cults?
But i'd be a bit concerned about durability?
Then again thats where the goliaths come in i guess?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




It’s not on the list I posted, but he took the 4AE warlord trait for the Magus. Not sure exactly how he was using the acolytes, but he took brood brothers because they can use unquestioning loyalty with any cult.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Just wanted to pop in and say congrats, GW has proclaimed that you are competitive in the recent metawatch article! Sure the army is abysmal and the win rate shows it, but it must be nice to have a real chance to win!

/sarcasm

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in nz
Guardsman with Flashlight



New Zealand

Although if you look closely, there was only one GSC player at the tournament, so they are probably just blaming them for the faction's lack of success. Whereas the 14 Drukhari players with their 64% win rate... I am sure we could take them, given a chance
   
 
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