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Made in be
Fresh-Faced New User




 quickfuze wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
I am not thrilled for GW ruleset but "Warhammer The Old World" will be compatible with 9th Age.


9th age is a dead trainwreck


thanks for killing the thread.

altough 95% was rubbish already about wat size the mini's will be (28mm, duh!), how many 1 mini represent (why? who cares? doesn't make a difference in playing the game right?) of it actualy be on square bases if not of round in a movement tray (they specificly say all thing comes around, even SQUARE bases)...

On topic:
I hope it will be an update like 40k got 8th edition as update.
make it a bit more simplyfied but still cool. hopefully they explain the rules better then before because that was one of the major problems!
also maybe make the to hit and to wound like 40k. (i went from fantasy to 40k when AOS came in)
they should also make it possible to charge a unit between 2 obstacle. like before a horde (10wide) couldn't move between 2 buildings if the gap wast wide enough.
they should make it possible to move of even charge inbetween, by free reforming to a smaller format. (a horde storming in between just adapts to the space they have.)
they should just loose the horde rule (and maybe get a small debuff for 1 round for the possible people running against the building)
also i do like the armor and AP rules of 40k instead of binding it to your strength.
magic shouldn't be as OP as it was in the end of 8th (fantasy) but also shouldn't be so lame as psychic powers in 40k either)

how do you all feel about charging in movement phase instead of charging after movement, magic and shooting phase (again, like in 40k)
i wouldn't mind if they keep it like it was. i wouldn't have a problem if they changed it either.

ok, i know how you all going to react: go play 40k if you want to change fantasy to 40k.
it is just idea's of improving old fantasy and where they might have struggled for newcomers and/ or some rules where not that great (although i did not have a problem with the to hit and to wound roster, but to explain it to newcomers was hard)
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

If you look back at actual historical regimental combats like WFB is supposed to represent, most of the killing was done during one army routing. I think that's what was lost with WFB, that psychological press of combat. The second you had regiments of troops with 3 or more attacks per model as standard infantry, you passed that bridge. Uber killy was the big issue from mid 7th on, THAT is what needs to be addressed in any edition of WFB from here on out. You want mass casualty Fantasy gaming, you have AOS.l

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

That was actually well represented. Most units were wiped out when they lose a combat and then were chased out by their enemy.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Yodhrin wrote:
Nah, see the trouble isn't whether Jervis is "divisive", it's with your characterisation as to why he's divisive.

You define his work as "elegant and streamlined" but full of "hidden depth", and say people who don't favour his work prefer "bling chrome, but shallower".

My contention is his work is simplistic and has all the depth of a puddle, while the preference of people who dislike his work is for well-explained crunchy, substantive rules, with actual depth. Blood Bowl is a fun game, but you could hardly call it deep, it's almost pure RNG and player input is largely limited to listbuilding and odds management. Never played his "boxed games". Epic 40K...yeah. At one point I was actually tempted by it, then I saw a game actually being played.

As to your wee spoilered box - erm, doesn't that rather prove that Andy Chambers is responsible for Epic: Armageddon, rather than that Jervis was responsible for BFG? Jervis had a bad idea, Andy fixed it, Jervis subsequently copied Andy's fix.

Bringing back Tuomas though? Yeah, that I can get behind. Whether or not they'd offer him terms he's interested in these days is another thing - he has a lot of love for his work from GW(he still pops into the Mordheim FB group on occasion), but these days he does his own thing and GW aren't exactly renowned for paying well.


No depth to blood bowl. Congratulations on my biggest wtf moment in all my years browsing this site.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/02 12:24:14


 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine




I think that it might be set in terms of HH with specific historical campaigns with specific books linked to areas of Fantasy history. For example:
Black fire pass
The Sundering
War of the beard
Vampire wars
Great War against chaos
The war against Nagash in Khemri

It would be awesome to have rules for human Sigmar, Alcadizzar, Gotrek Starbreaker, Caledor the Conqueror

 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Vorian wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Nah, see the trouble isn't whether Jervis is "divisive", it's with your characterisation as to why he's divisive.

You define his work as "elegant and streamlined" but full of "hidden depth", and say people who don't favour his work prefer "bling chrome, but shallower".

My contention is his work is simplistic and has all the depth of a puddle, while the preference of people who dislike his work is for well-explained crunchy, substantive rules, with actual depth. Blood Bowl is a fun game, but you could hardly call it deep, it's almost pure RNG and player input is largely limited to listbuilding and odds management. Never played his "boxed games". Epic 40K...yeah. At one point I was actually tempted by it, then I saw a game actually being played.

As to your wee spoilered box - erm, doesn't that rather prove that Andy Chambers is responsible for Epic: Armageddon, rather than that Jervis was responsible for BFG? Jervis had a bad idea, Andy fixed it, Jervis subsequently copied Andy's fix.

Bringing back Tuomas though? Yeah, that I can get behind. Whether or not they'd offer him terms he's interested in these days is another thing - he has a lot of love for his work from GW(he still pops into the Mordheim FB group on occasion), but these days he does his own thing and GW aren't exactly renowned for paying well.


No depth to blood bowl. Congratulations on my biggest wtf moment in all my years browsing this site.


Well, there isn't? It's a fun game, but it's the most RNG/diceapalooza game I've ever played, and once someone learns a few basic methods of influencing odds it trends in a particular way pretty much every time. I've seen quite a few BB groups form over the years, and they always end up with everyone doing the same RNG the kick > pick up the ball > turtle around the ball carrier > RNG until you break through the opposing line or you fumble the ball > repeat. One or two of the factions have the capacity to try riskier/showier plays, but when people are playing "seriously" rather than just as a larf, they rarely bother. There's a reason some players hit "feth it" and start playing Halflings - it's at least funny.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Belgium

 Yodhrin wrote:

Well, there isn't? It's a fun game, but it's the most RNG/diceapalooza game I've ever played, and once someone learns a few basic methods of influencing odds it trends in a particular way pretty much every time. I've seen quite a few BB groups form over the years, and they always end up with everyone doing the same RNG the kick > pick up the ball > turtle around the ball carrier > RNG until you break through the opposing line or you fumble the ball > repeat. One or two of the factions have the capacity to try riskier/showier plays, but when people are playing "seriously" rather than just as a larf, they rarely bother. There's a reason some players hit "feth it" and start playing Halflings - it's at least funny.


Blood Bowl's not just about dice. You would know if you really played it on a competitive level. It is about placement and activating your players in the right order. Those have nothing to do with luck.

There is a reason why the game was played for so long even after GW left it behind so many years ago. There is more than just the fun, and it is depth even so you deny it. The tactic you describe is a very basic one and not the only one you see on veterans playing a tournament.

You're too focused on trying to make all of Jervis' work look bad that you are putting yourself into a corner showing your ignorance.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/02 20:01:13


Cuteness for the Cute Goddess! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







Nobody puts Yodhrin in the corner!!!

No way GW awaits the full 3 years to release this game...

(...I hope.)
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





 Strg Alt wrote:
 Huginn wrote:
Mr Priestley has already written an updated version of WHFB - it's called Warlords of Erewhon. It's streamlined with crunchy bits, if that's what you like. It's not turn based, or phase based either, so traditionalists would probably dislike it. It's also d10 based. Most shocking of all (put your pipe down and sit down), it's on round bases. It's not really rank and flank as so many seem to want, but it certainly captures the flavour of WHFB without all the fiddle.


Round bases is a clear no go for me. I have a Night Goblin, Lahmian Vampire and Khemri army in my cabinet and only a complete fool would assume it is a good idea to move each mini on it's own. Besides, models organized in R&F look simply amazing.


Agreed. R&F regiments arrayed across the table is what got me into WHFB many years ago and why I couldn't quite get into AoS.

 Just Tony wrote:
If you look back at actual historical regimental combats like WFB is supposed to represent, most of the killing was done during one army routing. I think that's what was lost with WFB, that psychological press of combat. The second you had regiments of troops with 3 or more attacks per model as standard infantry, you passed that bridge. Uber killy was the big issue from mid 7th on, THAT is what needs to be addressed in any edition of WFB from here on out. You want mass casualty Fantasy gaming, you have AOS.l


As Galas mentioned, this was actually one of the better rules of 8th Ed and also how I won most of my games with Brets. I'd never be able to outgrind them in combat so would have to rely on throwing a few lances into key combats and bait to try for flanks to break and pray for the overrun.

I'm not getting my hopes up on this reboot until more details come out in the next few years. If it's in essence 8th Ed with a cleaned up ruleset similar to how they converted 7th Ed into Horus Heresy then colour me intrigued, but it just as easily be a AoS port with tweaks to accommodate square bases in which case it's a pass from me.




"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning. There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot. And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of war.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5600 | 2800 | 850 | 4000 | 3300 | 550

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

The real bummer is that with Warcry being out, there's no way a "return to the Old World" could be a skirmish setting like Mordheim. I could have sworn that when we saw things like Titanicus and Necromunda rebooted, we'd see a a return trip to the Cursed City.

Also a bit off topic; regardless of creator, Battlefleet Gothic is a work of legend.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 02:57:43




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





There’s no reason Mordheim and Warcry can’t run concurrently like they do with Kill Team and Necromunda, especially if ForgeWorld does end up making all of the new Old World stuff like people suspect.
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Sarouan wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Well, there isn't? It's a fun game, but it's the most RNG/diceapalooza game I've ever played, and once someone learns a few basic methods of influencing odds it trends in a particular way pretty much every time. I've seen quite a few BB groups form over the years, and they always end up with everyone doing the same RNG the kick > pick up the ball > turtle around the ball carrier > RNG until you break through the opposing line or you fumble the ball > repeat. One or two of the factions have the capacity to try riskier/showier plays, but when people are playing "seriously" rather than just as a larf, they rarely bother. There's a reason some players hit "feth it" and start playing Halflings - it's at least funny.


Blood Bowl's not just about dice. You would know if you really played it on a competitive level.


Yuh-huh.

It is about placement and activating your players in the right order.


So, erm, those basic methods of odds management I mentioned right there in the post you're quoting then?

There is a reason why the game was played for so long even after GW left it behind so many years ago.


Yup, it's an entertaining game. Right up to the point it makes you want to punch a wall

There is more than just the fun, and it is depth even so you deny it. The tactic you describe is a very basic one and not the only one you see on veterans playing a tournament.


And yet, it is one I've seen used in tournaments, repeatedly, over decades of being in this hobby.

You're too focused on trying to make all of Jervis' work look bad that you are putting yourself into a corner showing your ignorance.


No, I'm focused on pointing out that the idea Jervis' work is focused on depth is genuinely laughable when the man has been renowned as the king of casual/simplification for as long as I can remember, and when the prime example people point to here as being indicative of his like super deep brah rules writing is Blood Bowl, a system so dice-based that they make a joke out of it in the setting of the game itself I don't see what is supposed to be convincing me otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 04:21:15


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in fi
Stubborn Eternal Guard





AegisGrimm wrote:The real bummer is that with Warcry being out, there's no way a "return to the Old World" could be a skirmish setting like Mordheim. I could have sworn that when we saw things like Titanicus and Necromunda rebooted, we'd see a a return trip to the Cursed City.

Will Warcry still be heavily supported three years from now? I could see a few more supplements, but not sure it's supposed to be a long-running series.
Mordheim reboot could be interesting. Certainly in terms of models; for the game it really depends what direction they want to take it. Sigmar knows it could use some clarifications and rebalances on weapons and wargear, but I'd hate it if they made the injury or exploration tables even a bit shorter and more simplified. I want my one-legged one-eyed frenzied veteran going down a well, slip on a fish and miss the next game.
Not sure how the current style of GW's illustrations would work for Mordheim, or whether people mimicking the original will not make it look like a cheap knockoff version.

Don't think it will be a skirmish thing though, even if it's financially more viable (for players to get into, as well as for GW to support).
The logo features large armies. The memes feature legendary characters. And to a lesser extent, Mordheim hardly requires square bases.
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






 zend wrote:
There’s no reason Mordheim and Warcry can’t run concurrently like they do with Kill Team and Necromunda, especially if ForgeWorld does end up making all of the new Old World stuff like people suspect.


Sorry to pounce dude, and this isn’t personal. But peeps need to start reading the articles. Warhammer The Old World is confirmed to be a Warhammer Studio product. Not a Forgeworld or Specialist Games product.

Sorry again. Pet peeve of mine. Like how people still refer to the C’Tan ‘The Dragon’ as They Void Dragon’, when there’s no such conflation anywhere in canonical print.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spoiler:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Sarouan wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

Well, there isn't? It's a fun game, but it's the most RNG/diceapalooza game I've ever played, and once someone learns a few basic methods of influencing odds it trends in a particular way pretty much every time. I've seen quite a few BB groups form over the years, and they always end up with everyone doing the same RNG the kick > pick up the ball > turtle around the ball carrier > RNG until you break through the opposing line or you fumble the ball > repeat. One or two of the factions have the capacity to try riskier/showier plays, but when people are playing "seriously" rather than just as a larf, they rarely bother. There's a reason some players hit "feth it" and start playing Halflings - it's at least funny.


Blood Bowl's not just about dice. You would know if you really played it on a competitive level.


Yuh-huh.

It is about placement and activating your players in the right order.


So, erm, those basic methods of odds management I mentioned right there in the post you're quoting then?

There is a reason why the game was played for so long even after GW left it behind so many years ago.


Yup, it's an entertaining game. Right up to the point it makes you want to punch a wall

There is more than just the fun, and it is depth even so you deny it. The tactic you describe is a very basic one and not the only one you see on veterans playing a tournament.


And yet, it is one I've seen used in tournaments, repeatedly, over decades of being in this hobby.

You're too focused on trying to make all of Jervis' work look bad that you are putting yourself into a corner showing your ignorance.


No, I'm focused on pointing out that the idea Jervis' work is focused on depth is genuinely laughable when the man has been renowned as the king of casual/simplification for as long as I can remember, and when the prime example people point to here as being indicative of his like super deep brah rules writing is Blood Bowl, a system so dice-based that they make a joke out of it in the setting of the game itself I don't see what is supposed to be convincing me otherwise.



I don't care about JJ, the current game is not only his work. BB is simply a game with huge depth - and anyone that's played to any of serious level will know that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 09:46:44


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





No wolves on Fenris wrote:
I think that it might be set in terms of HH with specific historical campaigns with specific books linked to areas of Fantasy history. For example:
Black fire pass
The Sundering
War of the beard
Vampire wars
Great War against chaos
The war against Nagash in Khemri

It would be awesome to have rules for human Sigmar, Alcadizzar, Gotrek Starbreaker, Caledor the Conqueror


I can understand the appeal of that but personally that's far from the approach I'd want. I'd rather avoid the 'historical' or 'Time of Legends' style setting; leave that to the AoS ruleset or as special campaigns rather than a general trend. Go full nostalgia and re-create the setting as it was (or rather; as it was before Storm of Chaos and the End Times events....)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 14:05:50


 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Okay, bugging the hell out of me:


What does RNG mean in regards to that wall of BB text?>

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

probably random (as in random number generator), so down to dice not skill

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Riverside, CA USA

RNG here probably just means that it's heavily dice based rather than play based. A lot of GW side games boil down to rolling a couple dice but needing 5+ or 6+, so there's a lot of "dead" rolls where nothing happens until you finally get a hit, but also you sometimes hit it off right away. It's one of my issues with Kill Team, there's a LOT of dead rolls where you hit and wound, but they pass an armor save, or you hit but don't wound etc. As opposed to other systems where it's easy to hit/wound, but you have more hit points to slowly chunk away at.

BB has a lot of rolls where you do nothing, but sometimes you get that good roll right away at the start of a turn and follow it up with a couple good rolls. As a player, there's only so much you can do to maximize the modifiers, a lot of it comes down to dice

~Kalamadea (aka ember)
My image gallery 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 zend wrote:
There’s no reason Mordheim and Warcry can’t run concurrently like they do with Kill Team and Necromunda, especially if ForgeWorld does end up making all of the new Old World stuff like people suspect.


Sorry to pounce dude, and this isn’t personal. But peeps need to start reading the articles. Warhammer The Old World is confirmed to be a Warhammer Studio product. Not a Forgeworld or Specialist Games product.

Sorry again. Pet peeve of mine. Like how people still refer to the C’Tan ‘The Dragon’ as They Void Dragon’, when there’s no such conflation anywhere in canonical print.


I wouldn't apologise for it and it's certainly not just a pet peeve, it's actually a quite important point that a lot of people seem to be ignoring. Being a Warhammer Studios product suggests a) plastic rather than resin and b) much more support than if it was a Forge World project. It's fairly major for it's long term prospects/support and how big a product GW sees it as.


BB has a lot of rolls where you do nothing, but sometimes you get that good roll right away at the start of a turn and follow it up with a couple good rolls. As a player, there's only so much you can do to maximize the modifiers, a lot of it comes down to dice


It does come down to the dice but a skilled BB player will absolutely minimise the chances of the dice screwing them over, through correct activation order, taking the lowest risks first, maximising block dice, using players with certain skills to do certain actions. There are a number of players both in the online and TT world that consistently are amongst the best players in tournaments, if it was pure RNG then they wouldn't be regularly winning.
   
 
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