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Yeah, tombblades aren't bad but they don't do anything amazing. They have ok firepower and are fast, but aren't particularly tough. 2w is much worse for reanimation and more vulnerable to multidamage weapons.

The speed is nice but you can't really send them anywhere all that useful given how pathetic they are in melee. They are also physically bulky; makes them tough to hide.

Mostly they don't fill a role. Wraiths are almost as mobile and can take a punch while also being able to threaten non-melee things. Scarabs hold ground much better. Warriors shoot 1 damage weapons more efficiently. Highly mobile 1 damage shots are just not all that interesting.

They just need more punch, utility or to be cheaper. They'd be much more interesting at 26-28 points.

Or heck if they'd made the immortal/tombblade gun 2 damage and cost a bit more they'd have a much more interesting role.

drakerocket wrote:
Yeah, tombblades aren't bad but they don't do anything amazing. They have ok firepower and are fast, but aren't particularly tough. 2w is much worse for reanimation and more vulnerable to multidamage weapons.

The speed is nice but you can't really send them anywhere all that useful given how pathetic they are in melee. They are also physically bulky; makes them tough to hide.

Mostly they don't fill a role. Wraiths are almost as mobile and can take a punch while also being able to threaten non-melee things. Scarabs hold ground much better. Warriors shoot 1 damage weapons more efficiently. Highly mobile 1 damage shots are just not all that interesting.

They just need more punch, utility or to be cheaper. They'd be much more interesting at 26-28 points.

Or heck if they'd made the immortal/tombblade gun 2 damage and cost a bit more they'd have a much more interesting role.

I disagree that Scarabs hold ground better. They die to a stiff breeze. TB's are actually much tougher than you let on with their -1 to hit but it is true that once in combat they are laughable. RP is bad on multiwound models but LG seem to be fine with its current iteration and TB are the same so... What made them great in 8th was Fly allowing them to fall back and shoot, we have a Command Protocols that allows this but you'll have to find a way to have a character keep up with them and that's a big problem. Eh, I'll probably use them to score easy Linebreaker points and give my opponent target priority problems.

v0iddrgn wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Yeah, tombblades aren't bad but they don't do anything amazing. They have ok firepower and are fast, but aren't particularly tough. 2w is much worse for reanimation and more vulnerable to multidamage weapons.

The speed is nice but you can't really send them anywhere all that useful given how pathetic they are in melee. They are also physically bulky; makes them tough to hide.

Mostly they don't fill a role. Wraiths are almost as mobile and can take a punch while also being able to threaten non-melee things. Scarabs hold ground much better. Warriors shoot 1 damage weapons more efficiently. Highly mobile 1 damage shots are just not all that interesting.

They just need more punch, utility or to be cheaper. They'd be much more interesting at 26-28 points.

Or heck if they'd made the immortal/tombblade gun 2 damage and cost a bit more they'd have a much more interesting role.

I disagree that Scarabs hold ground better. They die to a stiff breeze. TB's are actually much tougher than you let on with their -1 to hit but it is true that once in combat they are laughable. RP is bad on multiwound models but LG seem to be fine with its current iteration and TB are the same so... What made them great in 8th was Fly allowing them to fall back and shoot, we have a Command Protocols that allows this but you'll have to find a way to have a character keep up with them and that's a big problem. Eh, I'll probably use them to score easy Linebreaker points and give my opponent target priority problems.

This. A smaller unit coming in from reserves gives a lot of those core builds/warrior spam lists some great agency, especially if you run them as obsec. Tricky if your opponent screens well of course seeing as they're big models, but theyve got the speed to make up for it if you have to bring them in further back.

I also think they could be great in reactive obsec lists that look to pin your opponent in their deployment. Most of our faster threats are melee based so throwing some speedy shooting, with decent range at that, could synergies quite nicely

Well, I've seen in the former ed. a very successful Necron list based on Tomb Blades and Praetorians.
Fast and deadly. If you'd push it to the extreme, it could work.

I'm going to give Tomb Blades (in a group of 3) a go as fast moving/shooty counter to MSU marines. May or may not work.

Don't use them to kill Marines, use their speed and durability to get VP's.

So I guess like....if I'm going to use them to outflank or score points or engage....

Why don't I just use wraiths for that? They do all of those things better because they are much tougher.

drakerocket wrote:
So I guess like....if I'm going to use them to outflank or score points or engage....

Why don't I just use wraiths for that? They do all of those things better because they are much tougher.

Well, if you use 3x9 Tomb Blades, they can make a difference.
One harassment unit of 6 TB's is fine as long as it operates along a flank.
Otherwise, I wouldn't bother and take Wraiths as said.

drakerocket wrote:
So I guess like....if I'm going to use them to outflank or score points or engage....

Why don't I just use wraiths for that? They do all of those things better because they are much tougher.

Good point to be fair lol. Imo I'd start wraiths on the board precisely because they're tougher. If I was running a couple of units of wraiths though then yeah, they could definitely preform a very similar role

Wraiths are tougher but aren't Core. They also don't take advantage of RP as well as TB. TB are just shooty versions of Wraiths.

Honestly, Tomb blades are really good. They serve a similar purpose to wraiths, but not quite the same. If you use the Fractal Targeting Strat with gauss Tomb Blades they can put down a ton of gauss fire from pretty much anywhere on the board.

IMO, the reason you're really seeing them as much, is because they don't add much to a Silver tide list, which is already putting down a ton of a gauss fire on the board, and is pretty much the main method of play most Necron armies are playing.

They also look goofy and are absolutely terrible to assemble.

v0iddrgn wrote:
Wraiths are tougher but aren't Core. They also don't take advantage of RP as well as TB. TB are just shooty versions of Wraiths.

Wraith are very hard to reanimate, because they have 3 wounds, a smart enemy will only kill 1 or 2. They are overcosted because they pay for RP, but almost never benefit from it.

I honestly don't think they are overcosted. 35ppm for 3 wounds 3+ 4++ 12 inch quasi fly advance & charge tarpit NIGHTMARES that can be made obsec and have non-trivial melee...

I only own 6 (so I rum either 1*5 or 2*3). If I had 15, I would probably run 15. But I don't, and I already have too many necrons...

These things are perfect for flipping midfield objectives (with obsec)

bort123 wrote:
I honestly don't think they are overcosted. 35ppm for 3 wounds 3+ 4++ 12 inch quasi fly advance & charge tarpit NIGHTMARES that can be made obsec and have non-trivial melee...

I only own 6 (so I rum either 1*5 or 2*3). If I had 15, I would probably run 15. But I don't, and I already have too many necrons...

These things are perfect for flipping midfield objectives (with obsec)

Wraiths can't advance + charge any more

Yeah, it's kinda odd they completely removed advance and charge from the necron book.

They can still fall back and charge though, which is very good on models with fly. If only they could actually kill stuff, they could be pretty dangerous for going after characters.

Sure, advance and charge is gone, but for the first turn charge you've still got the 6" pregame move, and once you're in midfield 12" + charge is usually plenty.

I've been running 2x5 wraiths with Eternal Expansionists at 1500 and so far they've been solid. They've mostly been tarpitting objectives. Damage is a little worse than I'd like, but a squad can usually hold an objective against even a dedicated melee unit, or take out anything weaker than that that gets too close. Fallback and charge lets you do some pretty hilarious things if you've got a second wave coming in, like attack objectives further back than the usual midfield brawl.

My core is 2x5 Wraiths, 3 smallish squads of scarabs, a C'tan, and a Chronomancer. I've been testing out different fire support elements (Scythes and Destroyers so far) but I haven't really found anything I'm 100% happy with.

Necron ranged anti-tank is unfortunately all bad, just in different ways. It's the main weakness of the book.

Luckily, at least right now, you don't really need it.

Well, normal Destroyers are actually quite good if the enemy fields mostly infantry.
Gauss cannons are quite potent when it comes to targeting Primaris.
But frankly I don't like the models might take LHDs as proxies.

So what do you guys think about spyders? On paper they look to be a threat in melee, especially when babysat by a technomancer with the +1 to hit and D3 extra attacks arcana.

They've got the potential for great utility too, being able to deny psychic powers, heal scarabs and repair dynasty vehicles, yet I haven't really seen any lists running them?

My theory crafting is that you either take 1 for the utility or go wide on them with a couple squads of 3. One squad of 3 seems like it would suffer from focused fire a lot, especially as the damage potential drop off is quite steep.

I haven't got any of the models so haven't been able to test them out, would be interested to see what you lot think

With the rules for them we got in the Codex, I’m super disappointed the new Heavy Lohkust Destroyer model didn’t come with a third gun to let you make the non heavy version of it. I don’t know if I’ll make use of my old ones or buy new ones, but if I did new ones I’d love to just use the new heavy model and source extra new style gauss cannons from other model for them.

As for Spyders, yes. They are a heavy in demand unit, with many people converting their Reanimators into them at this point. Would love to run a unit of three of them, backing up a pair of full sized Scarab Swarms, and in turn backed up by a Technomancer. Slap the Arkana on there that let’s you bring back a dead Spyder once per game. Sad you can’t have the repair option plus the +1 hit option on the same Cryptek. Also Gloom Prism, always give the unit one Gloom Prism.

 AduroT wrote:
With the rules for them we got in the Codex, I’m super disappointed the new Heavy Lohkust Destroyer model didn’t come with a third gun to let you make the non heavy version of it. I don’t know if I’ll make use of my old ones or buy new ones, but if I did new ones I’d love to just use the new heavy model and source extra new style gauss cannons from other model for them.

As for Spyders, yes. They are a heavy in demand unit, with many people converting their Reanimators into them at this point. Would love to run a unit of three of them, backing up a pair of full sized Scarab Swarms, and in turn backed up by a Technomancer. Slap the Arkana on there that let’s you bring back a dead Spyder once per game. Sad you can’t have the repair option plus the +1 hit option on the same Cryptek. Also Gloom Prism, always give the unit one Gloom Prism.

Yeah, its a pity that HLDs cannot be fielded as normal Destroyers as the Gauss cannon is missing. Nevertheless, I'll proxy them.
Spyders are too slow and die too easily. I'll skip them.

For those complaining about RP being worthless, at least for us it DOES do something.

Deathguard's 5+++ got reduced to.... -1 damage to a min of 1.
...
...
wow thats a nerf and a half, even if they got a bunch of extra wounds.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
For those complaining about RP being worthless, at least for us it DOES do something.

Deathguard's 5+++ got reduced to.... -1 damage to a min of 1.
...
...
wow thats a nerf and a half, even if they got a bunch of extra wounds.

Weird take. They are both good in certain situations and both worthless in others. In kind of opposite ways.

DR got nerfed because it needed to be. The new version is fine, not borderline broken which a 2W plague marine with FNP who ignores MW's would be.

Lets talk CCB. On paper it looks great. Tough/ shooty/ and has decent melee + good move speed. Used it pretty much every game up to this point and it has not impressed. Voltaic staff has done well as has resurrection orb but both of those items can be used elsewhere.

I think I am just gonna try for A standard overlord over it now. Give it the arrow of infinity (kind of an ace in the hole flat 6 damage shot (if they don't have an invune it is a pretty safe bet at 6 damage) or thrall of the silent king (12" MYBD) and phareon and just play him like a support character.

Also - Immortals though they have a great statline...they just aren't cutting it. They issue is they are to slow to do anything of value. I am thinking. bricks of warriors and warriors in ghost archs is the way to go.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Lets talk CCB. On paper it looks great. Tough/ shooty/ and has decent melee + good move speed. Used it pretty much every game up to this point and it has not impressed. Voltaic staff has done well as has resurrection orb but both of those items can be used elsewhere.

I think I am just gonna try for A standard overlord over it now. Give it the arrow of infinity (kind of an ace in the hole flat 6 damage shot (if they don't have an invune it is a pretty safe bet at 6 damage) or thrall of the silent king (12" MYBD) and phareon and just play him like a support character.

Also - Immortals though they have a great statline...they just aren't cutting it. They issue is they are to slow to do anything of value. I am thinking. bricks of warriors and warriors in ghost archs is the way to go.

Warriors are the confirmed superior troop choice at this point no doubt. They're cheaper, have a higher max damage output, are arguably more durable thanks to the re-roll 1s on RP and synergize with the rest of the codex better. Having said that, IMO immortals still have their place, but I would never go wide on them like I would warriors.

As for the CCB, it's literally a more durable overlord with a splash more shooting. I think a very effective way to run them is in support of a big 20 man warrior blob, like you suggest. If you want the extra durability then the CCB is always gonna be better but otherwise I wouldn't be expecting him to do more then a bit of chip damage here and there.

That said, Richard Seigler recently talked about a list running two CCBs next to the SK to really double down on the code of combat secondary, which is an interesting take for sure.

I like running my CCB for a couple reasons:

-more wounds
-higher T
-a wee bit of shooting
-larger footprint for aura/buffs
-way faster

With a resurrection orb, if I need to move him to another unit to help out (for example my ten man warrior squad just got murdered, which happened last game), he flew over to another unit (Lychguard in this case) to boost their RP and help out on that objective. I find his mobility and durability well worth the points delta.

Actually, I don't like lumbering HQ's.
CCB can wreck havoc if the enemy is not careful enough.

CCB is probably the best unit in the codex IMO, it's honestly kinda crazy something with T6, 9 wounds, living metal, quantum shielding and access to a -1D trait can get look out sir protection.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
For those complaining about RP being worthless, at least for us it DOES do something.

Deathguard's 5+++ got reduced to.... -1 damage to a min of 1.
...
...
wow thats a nerf and a half, even if they got a bunch of extra wounds.

Nerf for what　vs what? New plague marines are 33% tougher than before vs dam1. Even better vs dam2. Only losing slightly(27 dead pm per 27 shots vs 26 dead vs 27 shots) vs dam3 and even smaller loss vs dam4+. Only vehicles have really issue with changes.

Of course without knowing points　saying nerf or buff　is impossible but were everything else same as before plague marines got big buff. Especially durability.