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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Hi, sorry if I am missing something obvious. I'm writing up my CSM army and for chaos spawn, it has the beast keyword.

Does this do anything?

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BUDFORCE wrote:
Hi, sorry if I am missing something obvious. I'm writing up my CSM army and for chaos spawn, it has the beast keyword.

Does this do anything?


Not on it's own. The only keywords with intrinsic meaning are "Infantry", "Fly", and "Titanic". Every other keyword only matters in relation to rules in datasheets. For example, Haywire weapons work better against units with the Vehicle keyword.

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Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?

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BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?


Check the datasheet

Just being a Daemon doesn't give you an Inv save any longer, though it's a great rule of thumb because it's almost always true. However, you'll notice that Spawn are no longer Daemons either...

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 Yarium wrote:
BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?


Check the datasheet

Just being a Daemon doesn't give you an Inv save any longer, though it's a great rule of thumb because it's almost always true. However, you'll notice that Spawn are no longer Daemons either...


Sadface, ok thanks yeah guess they don't.

4 wounds T5 with a 5+ save, I guess the toughness keeps them at a 5+ for S4 weapons (boltguns) meaning a 5 to wound for most, but.... still a bit squishy.

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 Yarium wrote:
BUDFORCE wrote:
Hi, sorry if I am missing something obvious. I'm writing up my CSM army and for chaos spawn, it has the beast keyword.

Does this do anything?


Not on it's own. The only keywords with intrinsic meaning are "Infantry", "Fly", and "Titanic". Every other keyword only matters in relation to rules in datasheets. For example, Haywire weapons work better against units with the Vehicle keyword.


I don't think that INFANTRY or TITANIC actually have any rules associated with having them, just FLY.

The TITANIC units' ability to largely ignore penalties actually comes from a rule on their datasheet and is different based on the unit.


BUDFORCE wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?


Check the datasheet

Just being a Daemon doesn't give you an Inv save any longer, though it's a great rule of thumb because it's almost always true. However, you'll notice that Spawn are no longer Daemons either...


Sadface, ok thanks yeah guess they don't.

4 wounds T5 with a 5+ save, I guess the toughness keeps them at a 5+ for S4 weapons (boltguns) meaning a 5 to wound for most, but.... still a bit squishy.


They're like 25 points each though. 4W at T5 is pretty resilient for something that 25 points and basically amounts to cannon fodder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 18:39:10


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FLY & CHARACTER are the only keywords with intrinsic rules. Other keywords are there to govern certain interactions only.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 18:48:01


 
   
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skchsan wrote:FLY & CHARACTER are the only keywords with intrinsic rules. Other keywords are there to govern certain interactions only.


Ok thank you

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:They're like 25 points each though. 4W at T5 is pretty resilient for something that 25 points and basically amounts to cannon fodder.


Yeah I'll give you that! I built up my chaos army by rule of cool, but I needed to fill a 3rd fast attack slot in an (outrider?) detachment, so seemed a VERY cheap option to fill out a fast attack slot seen as you only need 1 in a unit.



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BUDFORCE wrote:
skchsan wrote:FLY & CHARACTER are the only keywords with intrinsic rules. Other keywords are there to govern certain interactions only.


Ok thank you

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:They're like 25 points each though. 4W at T5 is pretty resilient for something that 25 points and basically amounts to cannon fodder.


Yeah I'll give you that! I built up my chaos army by rule of cool, but I needed to fill a 3rd fast attack slot in an (outrider?) detachment, so seemed a VERY cheap option to fill out a fast attack slot seen as you only need 1 in a unit.


They are incredibly cheap, so even if you expect nothing of them they're adequate brigade filler if it's fast attacks that you're short on.

That said, I probably wouldn't take them for any other reason, since a 25 point non-troop generally doesn't offer a whole lot anyway.


As a further question: there's a very narrow space in which a fast attack needs to be taken as detachment padding to fill an outrider; the specialist detachments are sized in such a way to make them essentially automatically filled to minimum requirements if you have at least one other detachment of the same faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 19:14:44


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

I don't think that INFANTRY or TITANIC actually have any rules associated with having them, just FLY.


INFANTRY is referenced in a lot of Terrain rules, so I would count that. It's not army specific, so it's general rules for the keyword.
   
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 Stux wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

I don't think that INFANTRY or TITANIC actually have any rules associated with having them, just FLY.


INFANTRY is referenced in a lot of Terrain rules, so I would count that. It's not army specific, so it's general rules for the keyword.
AFAIK, INFANTRY keyword is only used for transport capacity and terrain rules only, where as FLY (in movement & charge phase) and CHARACTER (targeting) is specifically defined within the core rule set.

Put it differently, only FLY and CHARACTER keyword requires prior knowledge of it's meaning, where as other keywords simply act as qualifiers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 20:35:24


 
   
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 skchsan wrote:
 Stux wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

I don't think that INFANTRY or TITANIC actually have any rules associated with having them, just FLY.


INFANTRY is referenced in a lot of Terrain rules, so I would count that. It's not army specific, so it's general rules for the keyword.
AFAIK, INFANTRY keyword is only used for transport capacity and terrain rules only, where as FLY (in movement & charge phase) and CHARACTER (targeting) is specifically defined within the core rule set.

Put it differently, only FLY and CHARACTER keyword requires prior knowledge of it's meaning, where as other keywords simply act as qualifiers.


Terrain rules are in the core rule book, so again I would say that counts.
   
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Beast keyword prevents them from climbing buildings, using most transports plus a good number of strategems and accessing most armywide rules.

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 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Beast keyword prevents them from climbing buildings, using most transports plus a good number of strategems and accessing most armywide rules.

"Unless they can FLY, VEHICLES, MONSTERS, CAVALRY and BIKERS can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins."

No mention of Beasts.
   
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BUDFORCE wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?


Check the datasheet

Just being a Daemon doesn't give you an Inv save any longer, though it's a great rule of thumb because it's almost always true. However, you'll notice that Spawn are no longer Daemons either...


Sadface, ok thanks yeah guess they don't.

4 wounds T5 with a 5+ save, I guess the toughness keeps them at a 5+ for S4 weapons (boltguns) meaning a 5 to wound for most, but.... still a bit squishy.


They make EXCEPTIONAL escorts to Rhinos or even Land Raider, they are dirt cheap per wound, move fast and are occasionally credible in close combat! and more importantly they are prenominal at tying things up and taking slightly more firepower than your opponent would want to commit to killing them.

The trick is making sure you have a job for them before hand, gotta love 25 points to expand the anti 9" deepstrike bubble and reliably takes quite a few bolter shots to deal with.
   
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Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
BUDFORCE wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?


Check the datasheet

Just being a Daemon doesn't give you an Inv save any longer, though it's a great rule of thumb because it's almost always true. However, you'll notice that Spawn are no longer Daemons either...


Sadface, ok thanks yeah guess they don't.

4 wounds T5 with a 5+ save, I guess the toughness keeps them at a 5+ for S4 weapons (boltguns) meaning a 5 to wound for most, but.... still a bit squishy.


They make EXCEPTIONAL escorts to Rhinos or even Land Raider, they are dirt cheap per wound, move fast and are occasionally credible in close combat! and more importantly they are prenominal at tying things up and taking slightly more firepower than your opponent would want to commit to killing them.

The trick is making sure you have a job for them before hand, gotta love 25 points to expand the anti 9" deepstrike bubble and reliably takes quite a few bolter shots to deal with.
They don't do anything for vehicles. Their best use is when you're escorting a biker lord or other fast moving characters <10W.
   
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 vict0988 wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Beast keyword prevents them from climbing buildings, using most transports plus a good number of strategems and accessing most armywide rules.

"Unless they can FLY, VEHICLES, MONSTERS, CAVALRY and BIKERS can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins."

No mention of Beasts.
Chapter Approved mentions them.
Chapter Approved 2018, Page 63 wrote:Only INFANTRY, BEASTS, SWARMS and units that can FLY can be set up or end their move on the upper floors of ruins (any unit can do so on the ground floor). INFANTRY are assumed to be able to scale walls and traverse through windows, doors and portals readily. These models can therefore move through the floors and walls of a ruin without further impediment.

INFANTRY units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 20:20:50


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 BaconCatBug wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Beast keyword prevents them from climbing buildings, using most transports plus a good number of strategems and accessing most armywide rules.

"Unless they can FLY, VEHICLES, MONSTERS, CAVALRY and BIKERS can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins."

No mention of Beasts.
Chapter Approved mentions them.
Chapter Approved 2018, Page 63 wrote:Only INFANTRY, BEASTS, SWARMS and units that can FLY can be set up or end their move on the upper floors of ruins (any unit can do so on the ground floor). INFANTRY are assumed to be able to scale walls and traverse through windows, doors and portals readily. These models can therefore move through the floors and walls of a ruin without further impediment.

INFANTRY units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.

WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK

Updated 29/05/2019

Errata

New FAQ is more important than old CA right?
   
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 vict0988 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Beast keyword prevents them from climbing buildings, using most transports plus a good number of strategems and accessing most armywide rules.

"Unless they can FLY, VEHICLES, MONSTERS, CAVALRY and BIKERS can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins."

No mention of Beasts.
Chapter Approved mentions them.
Chapter Approved 2018, Page 63 wrote:Only INFANTRY, BEASTS, SWARMS and units that can FLY can be set up or end their move on the upper floors of ruins (any unit can do so on the ground floor). INFANTRY are assumed to be able to scale walls and traverse through windows, doors and portals readily. These models can therefore move through the floors and walls of a ruin without further impediment.

INFANTRY units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.

WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK

Updated 29/05/2019

Errata

New FAQ is more important than old CA right?
BRB Errata just changes what is in the BRB. The BRB rules are for people who didn't buy Chapter Approved.

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+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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BUDFORCE wrote:
Ok thanks, Chaos Spawn don't get a 5+ invul like most other daemons?

A Chaos Spawn isn't a Daemon.
Its just a horrifically mutatated mortal.
   
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Wait, what part of the CA rules prevent beasts from going on top of ruins?
   
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 vict0988 wrote:
Wait, what part of the CA rules prevent beasts from going on top of ruins?


It did not prevent, it added it to the list that is okay.
   
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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

That said, I probably wouldn't take them for any other reason, since a 25 point non-troop generally doesn't offer a whole lot anyway.


I love spawn. Especially right now.

125 points for 20 T5 wounds.

I fling them with Warp Time and try to keep them up with invulnerables, healing, etc. With the TS stratagem and Shock Assault I get to reroll the attacks and pick the bonus, so:

4.5 + 1 attacks that are S5 D2 and -- AP4 or +2 attacks or reroll wounds. And if they don't kill much they do a great job taking damage. Singular spawn do really well holding backfield objectives as well. I wish I could fit them in more often.


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