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Given the choice between the two, which would you run and why? An old school Space Marine Dreadnought or a Primaris Marine Redemptor Dreadnought?

Would appreciate people sharing their experiences of both (both in terms of collecting/painting and also in terms of tabletop gaming).

I'm not a fan aesthetically of the Redemptor, but it seems to be a pretty tough can of kick-ass.

The old Dreadnought still seems to 'fit' better with old SM units, but it is getting a bit dated now.

What do you all think?

I think the Redemptor is a bit over-costed. Old school dreads are great as Iron Hands with the "March of the Ancients" stratagem turning them into Characters!

Full disclosure: I don’t own a Redemptor

Aesthetically I like the old ones a lot better. Not a fan of how the new guy looks.

Old dreads have a lot more options. New one is just chaff clearing and plasma. Sometimes you want those lascannons.

The redemptor never really called out a niche that it needed to fill that wasn’t already done in my collection. Paired with it’s looks, that meant it never found it’s way to my shelf. Even if I was starting from scratch, I still think I’d pass.

If you like it go for it. I don’t think it’s mechanically a bad unit. But it doesn’t do anything unique.

The Redumpster is the worst looking dread released so far, yes even worse that the Infiltrating one, they clearly wanted to mix the asthetics of the Leviathan and a standard angry washing machine dread (MKIV) but managed to make it look worse than both.

Good news though its easy to convert and fix with a different set of arms and maybe the pop goes the monkey upgrades.

Like Nevelon says though it fills a niche that others already filled

The older ones, hands down. Their aesthetics are more focused and brutal, looking like an angry washing machine of death is to my eyes in every way superior compared to the overweight moomin that is the Redemptor. The new one is also way too big for something that is reasonably squishy, whereas Leviathans look like they deserve their Toughness 8.

I like their fluff of grilling the pilot, though.

A few people in my country run 3 redemptor and no baby dreads, and seem to be going arlight, but then again they are playing IH, with repulsors excutioners and use both for anti horde and clearing objectives.

I've actually grown to prefer the redemptor. the legs are better constructed. etc. and the torso buldge that people claim makes it look fat isn't that bad. reminds me a little bit of a vulture omnimech from Battletech.

 Nevelon wrote:
Full disclosure: I don’t own a Redemptor

Aesthetically I like the old ones a lot better. Not a fan of how the new guy looks.

Old dreads have a lot more options. New one is just chaff clearing and plasma. Sometimes you want those lascannons.

The redemptor never really called out a niche that it needed to fill that wasn’t already done in my collection. Paired with it’s looks, that meant it never found it’s way to my shelf. Even if I was starting from scratch, I still think I’d pass.

If you like it go for it. I don’t think it’s mechanically a bad unit. But it doesn’t do anything unique.

1) A Plasma Annihilator overcharging is mathematically equivalent to a Twin Linked Lascannon, unless Ap 4 matters and then it's a little bit better.

2) A full dakka-mode Redemptor puts out 28 shots, plus the Icarus Pod. It's not the most points-efficient anti-infantry platform Marines have available but it is more durable and more mobile than Centurions or Aggressors.

I think the two dreads complement each other, the regular Dreadnaught is a more convincing AT piece and the Redemptor is a much more efficient anti-infantry platform.

The Newman wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Full disclosure: I don’t own a Redemptor

Aesthetically I like the old ones a lot better. Not a fan of how the new guy looks.

Old dreads have a lot more options. New one is just chaff clearing and plasma. Sometimes you want those lascannons.

The redemptor never really called out a niche that it needed to fill that wasn’t already done in my collection. Paired with it’s looks, that meant it never found it’s way to my shelf. Even if I was starting from scratch, I still think I’d pass.

If you like it go for it. I don’t think it’s mechanically a bad unit. But it doesn’t do anything unique.

1) A Plasma Annihilator overcharging is mathematically equivalent to a Twin Linked Lascannon, unless Ap 4 matters and then it's a little bit better.

2) A full dakka-mode Redemptor puts out 28 shots, plus the Icarus Pod. It's not the most points-efficient anti-infantry platform Marines have available but it is more durable and more mobile than Centurions or Aggressors.

I think the two dreads complement each other, the regular Dreadnaught is a more convincing AT piece and the Redemptor is a much more efficient anti-infantry platform.

An interesting, and perhaps more balanced, way of looking at it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've actually grown to prefer the redemptor. the legs are better constructed. etc. and the torso buldge that people claim makes it look fat isn't that bad. reminds me a little bit of a vulture omnimech from Battletech.

I agree regarding the legs. The legs of the old Dreadnought make little mechanical sense. But with the torso/body shell on the other hand, I much prefer the old block to the Redemptor's.

Old dreads got a pretty generous points reduction recently, and don't degrade (which is a pretty big deal). So depending on your load-out you can run some pretty simple and cheap box dreads if you need numbers.

 Nevelon wrote:
Full disclosure: I don’t own a Redemptor

Aesthetically I like the old ones a lot better. Not a fan of how the new guy looks.

Old dreads have a lot more options. New one is just chaff clearing and plasma. Sometimes you want those lascannons.

The redemptor never really called out a niche that it needed to fill that wasn’t already done in my collection. Paired with it’s looks, that meant it never found it’s way to my shelf. Even if I was starting from scratch, I still think I’d pass.

If you like it go for it. I don’t think it’s mechanically a bad unit. But it doesn’t do anything unique.

This is the thing - I don't like it, but I like what it can do. I don't particularly want one, but I'm not sure I want an old dread either. I don't have any armour-killing ability in my fledgling force, though. I'm mostly focused on speed and attack atm. My land speeder worked brilliantly against Tyrannids (my first tabletop game since I started collecting again) with its movement, AC and HB. Am almost inclined to go for something else similar (like a Redemptor or even a Baal Predator) just so I can clean up masses of infantry. However, I'm acutely aware that if I face a more heavily armed shooty opponent, I'm probably going to struggle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Old dreads got a pretty generous points reduction recently, and don't degrade (which is a pretty big deal). So depending on your load-out you can run some pretty simple and cheap box dreads if you need numbers.

This could clinch it for me - I could run a pair, one heavily anti-armour and one heavily anti-infantry.

Also, if you have some spare arms from a dreadnought kit, I was able to buy the torso and legs for an Ironclad for like $14 and an extra arm for $3 or so. You can "build" box dreads awfully cheap off eBay if you're willing to forego the full kit/options and just pick what you want.

PS: Keep in mind though, if you keep your Redemptor magnetized...there will be heaps of new dreadnoughts based on that chassis in the future...so you could be future proofing yourself.

 Elbows wrote:
Also, if you have some spare arms from a dreadnought kit, I was able to buy the torso and legs for an Ironclad for like $14 and an extra arm for $3 or so. You can "build" box dreads awfully cheap off eBay if you're willing to forego the full kit/options and just pick what you want.

PS: Keep in mind though, if you keep your Redemptor magnetized...there will be heaps of new dreadnoughts based on that chassis in the future...so you could be future proofing yourself.

Good point on both counts. Really appreciate such good advice, thank you.

I'm happy with everything in my small army atm and am just afraid if I buy a Redemptor, I'll look at it and go... "Nah".

I think eBay and old dreads may be the way to go.

If I miss a big infantry-killer, I might invest in a Baal Predator further on down the road.

Remember to look up the Forgeworld options for box dreads. There is still a Mortis (double gun) option floating around, and the cool Chaplain dread, etc.

Don't know how you can really complain about the cost of the Redemptor for it's output. Aesthetically I like it too, far more than any of the vehicles.

I'd run Contemptors. The Castaferrum ('old-school') and Redemptor both look weirdly-proportioned to me, with really short limbs and really wide torsos, while the Contemptor looks like it might be able to walk rather than waddle.

Contemptors are filthy cheap for what they do. Shame the plastic model is fething heinous, but if you have an FW one, it's solid...really solid (so much so I think it killed the Leviathan off)

I dont own a castaferrum dread, but I do own & use my Relic contemptor & Redemptor almost every single game. They both kick ass

I prefer the standard boxy one. More options, but more importantly I like their aesthetics vrs the Redemptor.

Old Dreds are great. You can still run them with the Index options as well (as I learned recently), making them even more versatile.

New one is really ugly.

 bullyboy wrote:
Don't know how you can really complain about the cost of the Redemptor for it's output. Aesthetically I like it too, far more than any of the vehicles.

The output isn't the problem - it's the survivability. Not having an invulnerable save and degrading (plus being a big target) are problems. I've tried sticking one next to Iron Father Feirros but it didn't help enough.

Redemptors only work with IH, where they dont suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons, and they get double the wounds for the damage table. With any other chapter you are hitting on 5s pretty soon, when moving, and on the middle row of the damage table, which makes the dread pretty useless.

I'm a fan of the old dreads. Look wise I like them more and they tend to have many different options baked into the older designs. Just my opinion though, the new dread isn't bad just not as good to me as the old dreads.

 p5freak wrote:
Redemptors only work with IH, where they dont suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons, and they get double the wounds for the damage table. With any other chapter you are hitting on 5s pretty soon, when moving, and on the middle row of the damage table, which makes the dread pretty useless.

\
you realize ultramarines ignore movement penalties right?

BrianDavion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Redemptors only work with IH, where they dont suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons, and they get double the wounds for the damage table. With any other chapter you are hitting on 5s pretty soon, when moving, and on the middle row of the damage table, which makes the dread pretty useless.

\
you realize ultramarines ignore movement penalties right?

Not until T2 though.

Also the only codex Dread better than the Redemptor is strictly the Ven gun platform. That's it. Look at FW for functional Dreads.

BrianDavion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Redemptors only work with IH, where they dont suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons, and they get double the wounds for the damage table. With any other chapter you are hitting on 5s pretty soon, when moving, and on the middle row of the damage table, which makes the dread pretty useless.

\
you realize ultramarines ignore movement penalties right?

You realize its only during the tactical doctrine ? Otherwise you have to spend 1CP to ignore the penalty.

 Darian Aarush wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Full disclosure: I don’t own a Redemptor

Aesthetically I like the old ones a lot better. Not a fan of how the new guy looks.

Old dreads have a lot more options. New one is just chaff clearing and plasma. Sometimes you want those lascannons.

The redemptor never really called out a niche that it needed to fill that wasn’t already done in my collection. Paired with it’s looks, that meant it never found it’s way to my shelf. Even if I was starting from scratch, I still think I’d pass.

If you like it go for it. I don’t think it’s mechanically a bad unit. But it doesn’t do anything unique.

1) A Plasma Annihilator overcharging is mathematically equivalent to a Twin Linked Lascannon, unless Ap 4 matters and then it's a little bit better.

2) A full dakka-mode Redemptor puts out 28 shots, plus the Icarus Pod. It's not the most points-efficient anti-infantry platform Marines have available but it is more durable and more mobile than Centurions or Aggressors.

I think the two dreads complement each other, the regular Dreadnaught is a more convincing AT piece and the Redemptor is a much more efficient anti-infantry platform.

An interesting, and perhaps more balanced, way of looking at it.

Nice to get the recognition once in a while.

 p5freak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Redemptors only work with IH, where they dont suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons, and they get double the wounds for the damage table. With any other chapter you are hitting on 5s pretty soon, when moving, and on the middle row of the damage table, which makes the dread pretty useless.

\
you realize ultramarines ignore movement penalties right?

You realize its only during the tactical doctrine ? Otherwise you have to spend 1CP to ignore the penalty.

There's also a UM warlord trait to switch a unit to the Tactical Doctrine.

There's also "The Big Guns Never Tire" in the base book and you can combo the Rapid Assault sub-trait with the WS strat to treat a unit's Heavy and RF weapons as Assault for a turn to fire without penalty.

Personally I don't like the look of the redemptor, repulsor or the new rhino thing. They're big, lumpy, ugly and definitely scream anything but hover vehicles.
On the tabletop they seem pretty decent anti infantry units though, but they have the new primaris trend of having lots of slightly different guns which are often very similar but necessitate rolling separately and slow the game down for no real benefit.

Glad to see such love of the boxnaughts here, they're an icon and while the Redemptor is no doubt a bit more mechanically feasible as a walking war machine, there's nothing quite like an angry washing machine on legs.

Damn, I want some more now.