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Have any Necrons managed to transfer their minds into fleshy bodies yet? Has there been any hint in the lore anywhere?

I just thought it would be fun if my rogue trader kill team became disguised Necrons lording it up on a spaceship somewhere.

I was also considering some mind control with mind scarabs? Is this necron control method permanent on the victim or are there limits?

Thanks for reading.

Nope, the search continues!

Not exactly what you're after, but there's an old AdMech short story (that I'll try to remember the name of) where a Necron was able to disguise himself as a Tech Priest well enough for other Tech Priests to fall for it.

Mind of Cubozoan wrote:
I was also considering some mind control with mind scarabs? Is this necron control method permanent on the victim or are there limits?

It depends - they Necron can temporally turn them off, and Cawl was able to 'cure' Inquisitor Greyfax.

beast_gts wrote:
Not exactly what you're after, but there's an old AdMech short story (that I'll try to remember the name of) where a Necron was able to disguise himself as a Tech Priest well enough for other Tech Priests to fall for it.

Mind of Cubozoan wrote:
I was also considering some mind control with mind scarabs? Is this necron control method permanent on the victim or are there limits?

It depends - they Necron can temporally turn them off, and Cawl was able to 'cure' Inquisitor Greyfax.

Xenology also had an example of a Necron lord that was able to pull off either whole sale inventing an inquisitor or replacing an existing one convincingly enough to fool imperial authorities. They might not be able to get back into their original bodies but they are up there with Alpha Legion with pulling off a ruse when they want to.

A certain novel whose name I'll put in spoilers to avoid spoiling the plot twist for anyone whose intending to read it had a Cryptic who managed to make himself look like a human eneugh to pose an an advisor to a planetary leader

They did the same thing in xenobiology -

So yes, Necrons can disguise themselves as human, but there is so far nothing about successful bio transference.
In theory Necron can use Mind Shackle Scarabs to mind control anyone they want, but they don't for...reasons.

I have a question about the biotransference. It seems to be one of the Necron end goals but why? It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for them to do.

pm713 wrote:
I have a question about the biotransference. It seems to be one of the Necron end goals but why? It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for them to do.

I'd need to reread my Codex, but i think it's more an end goal of the Silent King rather than all the Necrons/Dynasties. The Silent King has this dynamic about penitence for dooming his race, willing to reverse the loss of their souls to the C'tan.
The great sleep was a mesure to permit Necrons to out survive the Eldars as they were too dimished at the end of the War in Heaven.

In the meantime he exile himself outside the galaxy and saw the Tyrannids coming which puts a hard limit to his plan to reverse biotransference, so he's back and give some story to Necrons interacting with other races.

The reason on why they could not reverse bio-transference is, imho, quite hinted in the Szeras background. He still research the living but ultimately don't understand it now that he is no more mortal. The loss of their souls seems to be the key, not very original, but it's how i understand it.

Shaelinith wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I have a question about the biotransference. It seems to be one of the Necron end goals but why? It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for them to do.

I'd need to reread my Codex, but i think it's more an end goal of the Silent King rather than all the Necrons/Dynasties. The Silent King has this dynamic about penitence for dooming his race, willing to reverse the loss of their souls to the C'tan.
The great sleep was a mesure to permit Necrons to out survive the Eldar as they were too dimished at the end of the War in Heaven.

In the meantime he exile himself outside the galaxy and saw the Tyrannids coming which puts a hard limit to his plan to reverse biotransference, so he's back and give some story to Necrons interacting with other races.

The reason on why they could not reverse bio-transference is, imho, quite hinted in the Szeras background. He still research the living but ultimately don't understand it now that he is no more mortal. The loss of their souls seems to be the key, not very original, but it's how i understand it.

At least it makes more sense than my understanding which was that the problem was a lack of suitable living bodies. That seemed stupid so I'm glad it's not just that.

Thanks for all the comments. I think I actually like Necrons disguising themselves more than my original idea. I think they could definitely pass as tech priests.

pm713 wrote:
I have a question about the biotransference. It seems to be one of the Necron end goals but why? It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for them to do.

Apparently its because biotransference was a C'tan thing, not a necrontyr thing. It seems that the C'tan didn't teach their slaves all of their secrets.
Which was smart...unlike giving the Silent King the means to control the necrons and break out of their control. Not so smart.
The necron lore is stupid like that.

What they should have done is copy the 3rd ed's version of the War in Heaven, but have it that during the long slumber something got faulty in the necrons' programming which is why there are all of these warring dynasties and stuff, and the C'tan aren't slaves but masters trying to regain control of their servants. So you have a 3 way war between Dynastic Necrons, C'tan Necrons and everyone else.

Wat. Aren't C'Tan just super old star parasites? Why would they have science that wasn't taught to them.

I really miss oldcrons.

pm713 wrote:
Wat. Aren't C'Tan just super old star parasites? Why would they have science that wasn't taught to them.

I really miss oldcrons.

They were like that in the old book too. FTL drives were actually something that they taught the necrons how to build, and transforming necrontyr into necrons were also their handy work.
Considering how C'tan are masters of the material world, can bend the laws of physics and the universe to their will and are highly intelligent (supposedly. Allowing themselves to be betrayed by their drones was dumb), it doesn't seem too far of a stretch that they would have some idea on how to make stuff.

pm713 wrote:
Wat. Aren't C'Tan just super old star parasites? Why would they have science that wasn't taught to them.

I really miss oldcrons.

I'm not sure about "star parasites" as such. They are usually referred to more as "star gods." In either case though, I think it should be less a notion of "science" and more some sort of arcane or "divine" art that allowed the C'Tan do things like create "living metal" and then somehow have a process of "biotransference" to it. Because if it is just science, then, yeah, to me, it makes little sense.

Unfortunately, I find that too often, the Necron background gets worse the more you read it, or at least, it does to me. 3rd edition fluff has its merits, as does 5th, but I feel Necrons really need a comprehensive philosophical reworking, in my opinion.

They still have FTL through the Pharos Beacon network.

Nurglitch wrote:
They still have FTL through the Pharos Beacon network.

Inertialess Drives were totally retconned out? I know they kind of walked back the whole Dolmen Gates thing.

To me, the "best" way of thinking about Necron "technology" is that it isn't just material science, it's actually C'Tan "magic," that is, it is "divine" C'Tan essence imbued to/harnessed by material matter. So, that would "explain" why it works, but cannot be "reverse engineered." Because it's just running on "parts" of Star Gods. The Necrons themselves would not really "understand it" so much as just have some "standing reserves" of this essence at hand, which is why they can sometimes "create" something new, although rarely.

It's kind of like a Demon Engine, that is, some "technology" but animated/powered by a Demon. You can take it apart, reproduce all the parts, but if you don't have a Demon to put in it, then it won't actually work. So, I'd think it's the same for Necron tech. You can examine all the physical parts and conclude it should not work. Because it is the "divine" C'tan essence that makes it functional, not just "inert" "material."

In this way, I would sort of make the idea that Necron's sold their own essences (i.e. souls) out for immortality and got C'Tan essence back in return.

Nurglitch wrote:
They still have FTL through the Pharos Beacon network.

The what now? I don't remember reading anything about a Pharos Beacon.

Necron have inertialess drive in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2.

As someone who has memorised pretty much all of the necron lore, it's honestly a mess of retcons. Nature of the C'tan, Scale of the War in Heaven, nature of necron FTL, chronology of the events. It all keeps being retconned and then re-retconned and then re-re-retconned.

Writers also seem to have this weird, almost if I may say, childish fascination with increasing the size of things to... I dunno to make it seem more epic(or "Epic" in quotation marks), which after a certain point honestly, at least for me, just starts to break the immersion.

Like, of no, War in Heaven can't take place across the galaxy it has to take place across the eeeentiireeee universe, apparently.Or maybe they already retconned that again.

Oh and it was actually mainly fought against Chaos.

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
As someone who has memorised pretty much all of the necron lore, it's honestly a mess of retcons. Nature of the C'tan, Scale of the War in Heaven, nature of necron FTL, chronology of the events. It all keeps being retconned and then re-retconned and then re-re-retconned.

Yeah, I mean, I have definitely not put in that much effort, but that was my impression of it all as well. 3rd edition was decent, if lacking in some ways, but then the fill in that started happening was just not congruous for the most part. The further retcons just made any of the weird, discongruities even more so.

I think there are reasonable, to me, ways to get from the vague, "impersonal" Necrons of 3rd to the more "character driven" ones of 8th, without the seemingly (to me) haphazard and slapdash nature of the endless retcons, while still keeping what are the "useful" and "interesting" elements of both. While also keeping the C'Tan as powerful, menacing, allies and enemies of the Necrons themselves. Not to mention, bake-in motivations for Necrons that capture what it means to have lost their "souls" and what they got in return.

Plus, I think then you get a little side fun, when the Deceiver gets a taste of his "own medicine" in return, failing to realize the intentionality of the "new" Necron "soul," the C'Tan essence that he gave them himself.

Also, some more side "fun" where Necrons themselves are actually sort of p-zombies, in the sense of experiencing consciousness, but not really being conscious.

I actually liked the impersonal nature of necrons.
To me the necron story isn't about necrons, but about how everyone else is going to deal with them. They are horror movie monsters, a faceless force of destruction that can be living underneath you, waiting to awaken.

If Tyranids are the threat from beyond, and Chaos are the threat from within oneself, then Necrons were the imminent threat.
You don't know if there's a tomb world underneath you, but there could be. And when you do know...well, it seldom turns out well.

The C'tan gave necrons all the personality they needed. GW didn't have to introduce senile crons who think they're Don Quixote.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I actually liked the impersonal nature of necrons.
To me the necron story isn't about necrons, but about how everyone else is going to deal with them. They are horror movie monsters, a faceless force of destruction that can be living underneath you, waiting to awaken.

Well, I agree I liked it too, but I do acknowledge the (somewhat) limited nature of that sort of story-telling. And GW story-telling is very much just marketing. So, it needs to tell a story that is explicitly marketable. Nameless, faceless things don't (really) fit will into the sales paradigm, especially since that is what Tyranid are. So, it was doable, but evidently, GW felt like the marketing oppertunities were better if they weren't nameless and devoid of personality.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If Tyranids are the threat from beyond, and Chaos are the threat from within oneself, then Necrons were the imminent threat.
You don't know if there's a tomb world underneath you, but there could be. And when you do know...well, it seldom turns out well.

The C'tan gave necrons all the personality they needed. GW didn't have to introduce senile crons who think they're Don Quixote.

Well, I agree and slightly disagree. I did like the dormant, ancient threat of the tomb worlds. But I also do like the active menace of awakened ones too.

I do agree though, that the characters we did get are kind of hackneyed. With my idea of C'Tan imbued Necrons, Necrons that think themselves conscious but are not, there is still room for something akin to personality, but at the end of the day, they are still at the will of the animating C'Tan essence. So, the question really becomes, what does that want? And what is it like to imagine yourself free, but really to not be? That has narrative possibility to me.