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Yodhrin wrote: So you only need to buy four sets of both at a grand total of roughly...640 pounds, to get a full 4x4 table.
Lol no.
If the standalone version of the terrain isn't available in a more affordable form, this is going to be Whales-only.
Yeah they managed to make it more expensive than the FW resin tiles which is kinda special.
What you're failing to mention is all the other stuff included in those boxes as well. The walls are being released in January apparently so we will see if it really is more expensive than the FW tiles rather than just getting multiple Dark Uprising boxes
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
Again, it is a bad idea to buy multiple copies of Dark Uprising because the terrain will certainly be available later without the additional costs of rulebooks, gangs, dice, and whatever. This is a Necromunda starter box, not one-quarter of a Zone Mortalis table.
It will still be way more expensive than anybody could reasonably be expected to afford, but slightly less so.
Yeah, but Shadow War had OLD models in it. Like really old. Dark Uprising has new models in it.
Also, Shadow War was $130 (remember when these kind of boxes were only $130, way back in... 2017) and the Promethium Refinery was basically the same set of terrain for, I think it was around $100. Seems they don't make it anymore.
Believed to be one set of tiles and one box of terrain.
So can anyone confirm the amount of terrain in the box because GW have really gone out of there way not to say, beyond saying 17 sprues of which 15 are zm related going from the pictures I can find on GW’s site and unboxing it looks like 12 pillar sections (6 sprues) but the rest is kinda hard to make out.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
Yodhrin wrote: So you only need to buy four sets of both at a grand total of roughly...640 pounds, to get a full 4x4 table.
Lol no.
If the standalone version of the terrain isn't available in a more affordable form, this is going to be Whales-only.
Yeah they managed to make it more expensive than the FW resin tiles which is kinda special.
I don't think it makes up for the higher price, but its worth talking about difference in what you end up with by the time you have four sets of both as opposed to the resin ZM. Focusing on the terrain you end up with the equivalent of 2 plasma conduit kits (£22.50/ea), double the number of large and small doors FW would have give you with their bundle, between 2-3 extra tiles worth of walls for making the second levels, all the stairs and barricades.
Realistically you could probably sell all the non-terrain stuff and recoup a fair amount, even though I don't anyone should be expected to do that just to get what they want from a mass produced good.
The FW bundled set of 16 tiles with some doors were ~£400... they broke down to about £20 per tile, and the rest for the doors. When you look at the absolute best prices GW has ever given for plastic terrain its about £8/$11 per sprue, so in theory the cheapest we would ever see the terrain from this set is about £136/$187. A typical ZM tile built out of the plastic is one floor tile, one wall sprue, and one column sprue... easily £25-30 per tile. I think if you reduced what you got down to just the sprues and floors necessary for building the FW version of a 4x4 you end up at about £400-£450... the same as the FW basically.
So why can't GW do better?-I think the main problem with translating ZM from resin to plastic is a manufacturing consideration. The main advantage of resin over plastic is geometric, more specifically volume; while resin casting has practical limitations in the overall physical volume of the part as long as you work within that limit you'll be cheaper than producing in plastic. Producing in plastic is less of a volume consideration and more of a surface area consideration. You see it with these sprues, each bulky wall and eacy bulky column is unfolded and layed out flat. In effect GW took something that for the most part worked to the advantages of resin casting and translated it to one of the weaknesses of plastic molding. So after all the advantages of greater mass production, they broke even. I think even if they had tried to reduce price and produced a less flexible set at most that would have shaved off £2-£3/sq-ft.
I've said this before but this really underscores something for which I've been a proponent... I really think GW needs to sell some terrain set bundles they can sell online, that give you an amount of terrain based on whats actually needed for the different games. GW should sell a 4x4 necromunda set that bundles just what's needed. Terrain is expensive as it is, let alone when you have to buy it with a bunch of stuff you don't want.
jeff white wrote: if that is one box then... 160euros with free shipping int he eu seems like a pretty good deal!
I’m honestly not sure that’s just one box but it’s hard to tell given there’s no official description.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
jeff white wrote: if that is one box then... 160euros with free shipping int he eu seems like a pretty good deal!
Good deal for the amount you get sure, less so when the rules writers wrote the rules around you having 3-4 times the number of sets worth of terrain...
aka_mythos wrote: Good deal for the amount you get sure, less so when the rules writers wrote the rules around you having 3-4 times the number of sets worth of terrain...
Actually, it's the Sector Mechanicus which is set up on a (roughly) 4'x4' board. The Zone Mortalis rules involve alternating placing individual tiles (and not always in a square, or aligned), with the majority of scenarios only requiring 6 or 7. Part of it is that ZM tiles are more like mazes, so even taking up less space, it can actually take more moves to get to your opponent. Unless they changed the ZM rules for Dark Uprising, you could probably get by with just double the amount of terrain for most games, or minimally, just one.
It does appear to be more than one set
What makes you say that? Look at the GW site, it looks like about 11 or 12 pillars and about as many wall segments, so if this is more than a single set, it's not more than one or two wall segments more. Part of the difference is that it is mostly spread out on one level, while GW's website has more stuff on a second floor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/16 15:58:22
I'm not defending GW here at all, but I think the following is probably the best idea:
1) Skip plastic floor tiles. Unnecessary and make dice rolling fething obnoxious. Get a suitable neoprene gaming mat to suit the style of the terrain, there are heaps of options out there - the best one (Deep Cut Studios) was already linked.
2) Dark Uprising will absolutely be the "discounted" cost of this terrain and you're likely going to save money with this box instead of buying the stuff separately.
3) Find a decent discount online somewhere if you can.
4) Buy whatever boxes you want...and then sell off the gangs. They're new and partially new - not old models, so you can probably flip them for $30-40 per set. If you have bonus dice/books/etc. you can also flip those. There will be plenty of people who want the new minis/rules, etc. and don't want to spend money on the terrain.
A $290 box with 15% discount and selling off the gangs for $30 a piece would put the box price at $186.50.
Is that cheap? Hell no. Would I pay it? feth no. But for the people who are obsessed with plastic, that's likely the better way to do it. Skip the floor tiles and spend that money on a quality mat.
PS: At a glance, people are selling the Dark Uprising stuff for pretty solid money on eBay. Even the dice are listed at $15-20 per set, etc. I think parting out the stuff you don't want that is extraneous would be far better than waiting for the obnoxiously priced normal terrain when this stuff shows up in store.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/16 16:00:33
i like a game of 40k with rolling activations. So, turn one deploy 300 points, turn 2 300 points, turn three 300 points.... small board friendly, no command points and cut most if not all card based stuff.
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Elbows wrote: I'm not defending GW here at all, but I think the following is probably the best idea:
1) Skip plastic floor tiles. Unnecessary and make dice rolling fething obnoxious. Get a suitable neoprene gaming mat to suit the style of the terrain, there are heaps of options out there - the best one (Deep Cut Studios) was already linked.
2) Dark Uprising will absolutely be the "discounted" cost of this terrain and you're likely going to save money with this box instead of buying the stuff separately.
3) Find a decent discount online somewhere if you can.
4) Buy whatever boxes you want...and then sell off the gangs. They're new and partially new - not old models, so you can probably flip them for $30-40 per set. If you have bonus dice/books/etc. you can also flip those. There will be plenty of people who want the new minis/rules, etc. and don't want to spend money on the terrain.
A $290 box with 15% discount and selling off the gangs for $30 a piece would put the box price at $186.50.
Is that cheap? Hell no. Would I pay it? feth no. But for the people who are obsessed with plastic, that's likely the better way to do it. Skip the floor tiles and spend that money on a quality mat.
PS: At a glance, people are selling the Dark Uprising stuff for pretty solid money on eBay. Even the dice are listed at $15-20 per set, etc. I think parting out the stuff you don't want that is extraneous would be far better than waiting for the obnoxiously priced normal terrain when this stuff shows up in store.
If you are ever in the Netherlands, I can see about getting a box shipped for 160Euros.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/16 16:04:29
Elbows wrote: 1) Skip plastic floor tiles. Unnecessary and make dice rolling fething obnoxious. Get a suitable neoprene gaming mat to suit the style of the terrain, there are heaps of options out there - the best one (Deep Cut Studios) was already linked.
Given that ZM scenarios are set up tile by tile, and not always in a rectangle or even aligned, having the tiles does have some gameplay value and can create game boards beyond a single square mat. They do feel like an extravagance though and would probably be the last thing I'd consider getting.
What I'm most curious about is if you can use them to create large floor areas for upper levels. Sector Mechanicus is great at catwalks, but with straight floors at a premium, creating a broad, flat platform ends up wasting all your good walkways.
2) Dark Uprising will absolutely be the "discounted" cost of this terrain and you're likely going to save money with this box instead of buying the stuff separately.
It's possible, but I think the ZM terrain will be sold in different combinations (like the SM and SI terrain) that may give you more options in how you build your terrain collection. I'm hoping for one that is just 6 sprues of staircases, and a set with fewer doors and more walls.
4) Buy whatever boxes you want...and then sell off the gangs. They're new and partially new - not old models, so you can probably flip them for $30-40 per set. If you have bonus dice/books/etc. you can also flip those. There will be plenty of people who want the new minis/rules, etc. and don't want to spend money on the terrain.
A $290 box with 15% discount and selling off the gangs for $30 a piece would put the box price at $186.50.
I think it might be a case where supply outstrips demand. I think the majority of the people buying this box are not Necromunda players and will probably flood eBay with the gangs and other materials. Sure, you'll get something back, but I don't think it will be particularly lucrative or offset the cost of the box that much. Selling the gangs for $30 apiece seems overly optimistic.
Sqorgar wrote: I think it might be a case where supply outstrips demand. I think the majority of the people buying this box are not Necromunda players and will probably flood eBay with the gangs and other materials... Selling the gangs for $30 apiece seems overly optimistic.
It would be nice to see a huge glut of cheap enforcers. I think they're ok, but very far down my list of purchases. If they're super cheap though I'll probably pick some up.
Right now the prices on eBay are rather absurd, but it's always this case when it's this early. Keep in mind with this price tag Dark Uprising isn't going to be like Dark Imperium. It'll be far more scarce. Right now people are asking $30 for five of the corpsegrinder cult, etc. I don't think $30-40 even $50 (considering the constant rise in box costs from GW) is unreasonable on eBay or second hand markets.
PS: The dice are "new" colours and thus will sell easily as well. Lots of people looking for unique or alternate dice since GW doesn't like the keep the gang dice in production for some reason.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/16 16:32:04
MajorWesJanson wrote: The instructions for the ZM terrain is broken down into 2 different booklets, so likely going to be 2 terrain kits when sold separately.
Zone Mortalis Columns and Walls, probably a box of 1-2 door sprues, 2+ small wall sprues, 2+ long wall sprues, and 2+ column sprues. I'd guess a door, 2 of each wall, and 3 column sprues personally, giving an 8 sprue box.
Zone Mortalis Platforms and Stairs. Likely the smaller terrain kit, Probably going to be 2 stairs sprues and 2 platform sprues, I'd guess just those 4 in a box.
Assembling them is simple and fun, all the walls and columns you want to leave the top unglued as they flip over to lock in higher levels, or swap in platforms. And the floor tiles help the walls and colums sort of lock into place lightly. The floor is about the thickness of the catwalk tiles from SI or SM, but lacks connectors on the bottom, and unfortunately for my original plans, at 12" is slightly too small to use as a floor or roof since 5 building sections are 12.5" across instead.
Quoting to repeat the info. Glued some of the columns to wall sections in subassemblies to make it easier to set up. The fit can be pretty tight if you are using the plastic floor.
The Box contains 12 Pillars, 8 Small and 2 Large Wall sections, 2 Large Doors, 2 Small Doors, 4 Sprues of Stairs and Platforms, 1 Sprue of Promethium Pipes, 1 sprue of random stuff/ decoration. With the usual online discount, you get quite a lot of terrain for the money...
For anyone who does want to use the card tiles, but would also like actual walls, I can tell you that the Gamemat stuff (Hive Walls) are really nice. One set is enough to do all of the layouts in the original set of tiles (I think), but not quite enough for all the layouts in every set of released tiles. They fit (almost) perfectly, by which I mean that they aren't perfectly flush, but I don't think I've had any pieces that were a millimeter off, much less 4.
But they are $110 US, resin, and fully painted. It's not cheap, but it's not that bad relative to GW wall options. They are more expensive than MDF, but hey, they are assembled and painted already! They look really nice on a board, and are pretty great quality.
They won't 'build upwards' like the new GW terrain, but Zone Mortalis is pretty explicitly 'one-level' gaming, so they work great for that. I was gonna try to get a lot of the new GW stuff, but realizing that it won't be compatible with the Necromunda Zone Mortalis stuff means that I will be using it just to get some terrain diversity and not really worrying about modularity, I think. I just can't fathom any good-faith reason for making the plastic floor tiles and the card floor tiles different dimensions. It really drains a lot of the goodwill I had built up towards GW recently.
But the money I will save will probably go to another set of the Gamemat Hive Walls!
Yeah I was thinking about getting the Gamemat.eu stuff. GW's new plastic terrain has convinced me to get it though. So... thanks GW for making that decision easy.
I found this review of the ZM terrain kits helpful. How the tiles work together with the wall sections, where you can actually clip them into the tiles etc (shown in the first half of the vid)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/17 10:42:34
Believed to be one set of tiles and one box of terrain.
So can anyone confirm the amount of terrain in the box because GW have really gone out of there way not to say, beyond saying 17 sprues of which 15 are zm related going from the pictures I can find on GW’s site and unboxing it looks like 12 pillar sections (6 sprues) but the rest is kinda hard to make out.
Not got mine entirely built yet, but the only extra thing I can see there is maybe a couple of extra pillars. You definitely get all of those wall sections and it looks like they’ve only used about half of the doors. So that table is fairly representative of the setup you can get from the box. I can also confirm that the plastic tiles are ~10mm wider than the underhive cardstock
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Thanks for the update with the pics! It cements my opinion that the floor tiles are just a waste of money. The scenery looks great, but none of the Mechanicus stuff seats into the ZM tiles at all, and actively rides above the detail. It blows goats that the ZM walls aren't compatible with the old ZM boards, but the ZM scenery looks great with the Sector Mechanicus stuff. Nice!
I did a quick trial last night and although most of the SM stuff does “float” on the tiles, it’s actually pretty stable and doesn’t seem to affect how it lines up with the ZM.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
