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Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

I heard this depressing story on the radio today....

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20191126/life-expectancy-shrinks-for-americas-working-age-adults#1


TUESDAY, Nov. 26, 2019 (HealthDay News) -- Despair, as evidenced in rising rates of drug abuse and suicide, may be eroding the average life expectancy of Americans, a new study finds.

Deaths among working-age adults, especially, have been increasing in the United States for decades, particularly in economically struggling parts of the nation such as the "Rust Belt" and Appalachia, the researchers reported.

These early deaths are causing average life expectancy to decline in the United States. U.S. life expectancy dropped between 2014 and 2017, even while citizens in more than a dozen other industrialized nations continue to enjoy ever-longer lives.

The U.S. trend is being driven not just by the widely publicized "deaths of despair" -- drug overdoses, alcoholism and suicide -- but also by a diverse list of diseases affecting organs throughout the body, said lead researcher Dr. Steven Woolf. He's director emeritus of the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine's Center on Society and Health.

The root cause of all this illness and death could be economic stress. Woolf and his colleagues suspect that the decline of the middle class in America is contributing to an average shorter lifespan across the country.

"It might turn out that investment in the middle class, and helping to bring jobs and economic development to those communities, might do more to save lives than adding another wing onto the hospital," Woolf said.

Average U.S. life expectancy stood at 78.6 years in 2017, down from a peak of 78.9 in 2014, the researchers said in background notes.

The increase in working-age death rates has tracked closely with major shifts in the U.S. economy dating back to the 1970s and 1980s, when the country began to lose manufacturing jobs and the middle class started shrinking, Woolf said. The largest relative increases in midlife mortality rates have occurred in the Ohio Valley (West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky) and in northern New England (New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont), according to the researchers' analysis of federal data.

"In our analysis, we estimated how many excess deaths occurred in the United States due to this problem between 2010 and 2017," Woolf said. "One-third of those deaths occurred in those four states in the Ohio Valley."


Thankfully, Dr. Woolfe is an expert so we don't have to listen to a word he says.

What is interesting is that this is a trend that is cutting across ethnic and economic lines. Therefore, it isn't just poor people in the old Rust Belt. They were hit the hardest, but are not the only ones. The other interesting note is that the number of deaths amongst "Young Adults" is rising since 2010.

So many things to think about with this article. However, it could help relieve the "strain" on Social Security! Wakka, wakka, wakka!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 14:26:33


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Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

I have a hard time seeing how this will not end up as either a political discussion, which ist verboten, or meaningless discussion because everyone is trying to skirt the politics ban.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I have a hard time seeing how this will not end up as either a political discussion, which ist verboten, or meaningless discussion because everyone is trying to skirt the politics ban.


welche verboten ist* pls

Also, yes this would probably lead rather soon into politics except of course you'd keep the discussion to the socio economical level and of course would discuss counter proposals to the situation at hand.
F.e. Decentralized economic development planning. Economic rebalancing of weaker states. General improvementof infrastructure. etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 14:51:46


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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

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[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I have been assuming I'd never get anything from Social Security ever and my retirement plans don't factor in any money from that. I have a mix of stuff going on - I have a cash benefit plan from my job, a decent 401K, and personal investments. The house is also paid off so upkeep should be pretty minimal.

Although, as this article points out, suicide is always an option if it gets tight!

Financially I've done better than my parents by a long shot, but I got lucky and happened to train in a field that would up being in demand. I don't think "doing better than your parents did" is the normal expectation in the US anymore, sadly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 15:06:55


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






The whole matter has a large political component. Simply put, the situation that causes this despair is a direct result of people's voting (or non-voting) habits.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

So, any hypothesis on why the death rate among Young Adults is growing faster in the 2000's than anytime since WWII?

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Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 Easy E wrote:
So, any hypothesis on why the death rate among Young Adults is growing faster in the 2000's than anytime since WWII?


It's almost certainly social media, right? Young adults are engaging in less risky behavior (drugs, drinking, unprotected sex), while social media is a completely radical shift in how we interact with the world.

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Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 Polonius wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
So, any hypothesis on why the death rate among Young Adults is growing faster in the 2000's than anytime since WWII?


It's almost certainly social media, right? Young adults are engaging in less risky behavior (drugs, drinking, unprotected sex), while social media is a completely radical shift in how we interact with the world.
Are those "young adult death increase" stats exclusive to the USA? As far as I know life expectancy is not decreasing to such a degree in other developed countries. If somebody has the data in an useful and linkable format feel free to link it here. Because if those deaths are only reducing life expectancy in the USA while it stays the same (or increase) in other (developed) countries then I'd say social media is probably not to blame (on its own). Over here in Europe we have social media too.

What about the rising cost (beyond inflation) of medical procedures and insurance in the USA? I read depressingly often about people in the USA who can't afford insulin (also other otherwise cheap drugs) because companies have increase the price to a ridiculous amount. Would not being able to pay for your health while your wages stay relatively stagnant be an possible reason for why more people are dying at a younger age in the USA while it's not happening at the same rate in other developed countries where wages are less directly coupled to your "healthcare potential"?

Related questions: Why is that change only happening in the 00s? Has the cost of medical care increase faster in the 00s and/or has the 2008 financial crisis led to even worse wage stagnation so that average people could afford even less healthcare? Is there any data on that?

I do remember some stats about how the introduction of the ACA led to about 3000 fewer people dying per month (in the USA, not worldwide). Although I also read about that maybe not being 100% because it's hard to quantify if that's the only reason why.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Easy E wrote:
So, any hypothesis on why the death rate among Young Adults is growing faster in the 2000's than anytime since WWII?
Student loans? No, seriously it's a big problem. The debt most millennials have from going to college is ridiculous. Many are bankrupt.
I actually have a really good job, far better than anything my parents ever had, but I will never be able to afford a house

And yes, health care is stupid silly in the US. Many people go without because it cost too much. I'd suspect that plays a big part too

-

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/12/03 20:38:38


   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





Opiate crisis.
Reminds me off Zürich, we had the heroin wave some time ago.

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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

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Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

Mario wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
So, any hypothesis on why the death rate among Young Adults is growing faster in the 2000's than anytime since WWII?


It's almost certainly social media, right? Young adults are engaging in less risky behavior (drugs, drinking, unprotected sex), while social media is a completely radical shift in how we interact with the world.
Are those "young adult death increase" stats exclusive to the USA? As far as I know life expectancy is not decreasing to such a degree in other developed countries. If somebody has the data in an useful and linkable format feel free to link it here. Because if those deaths are only reducing life expectancy in the USA while it stays the same (or increase) in other (developed) countries then I'd say social media is probably not to blame (on its own). Over here in Europe we have social media too.



This is US only data. In fact, in other comparable parts of the world, the opposite trends are happening.

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Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Almost as if gaking on the heads of the non-wealthy leads to problems.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Almost as if gaking on the heads of the non-wealthy leads to problems.


Or the sole concentration on Centers whilest ignoring the periphery.

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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

So, at 37, I'll start pulling a pension, with somewhere around $85k in a 401k.

I'll then start a second career, hopefully one that provides a pension as well, but if not, I'll get a Roth going with that one.

At any rate, I'm fairly comfortable with my future prospects of true retirement.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 djones520 wrote:
So, at 37, I'll start pulling a pension, with somewhere around $85k in a 401k.

I'll then start a second career, hopefully one that provides a pension as well, but if not, I'll get a Roth going with that one.

At any rate, I'm fairly comfortable with my future prospects of true retirement.


Assuming, of course, that Congress doesn't pull the plug on those pensions....

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
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[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

The US? Turning its back on people who served honorably?

Surely you jest, sir.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Comparing international life expectancy is meaningless anyway. Every nation has a slightly different way to calculate both infant mortality and life expectancy, so in the end it is a major apples to oranges comparison. If everyone would simply use the UN standards it would help out quite a bit. The US actually has quite broad definitions compared to other countries which makes our life expectancy look a little lower comparatively.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

But others aren't dropping while yours are. Compared to your own definitions you're worse off, while other comparable countries are not worse off compared to their own standards.

Unless the US standards have changed over time, obviously.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Ouze wrote:
The US? Turning its back on people who served honorably?

Surely you jest, sir.

TBF what country hasn't done that? Crapping on the heads of your own people is like a coming-of-age ceremony for countries; you aren't a real country unless you have.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
The US? Turning its back on people who served honorably?

Surely you jest, sir.

TBF what country hasn't done that? Crapping on the heads of your own people is like a coming-of-age ceremony for countries; you aren't a real country unless you have.


Erm, does the contrary also count ? Or are we now the new denmark meme?

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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Ahhhh retirement.

Once a promise, now increasingly a pipe dream. UK State Pension is pretty low, but I’ve a decent private pension through work (one of the safest in the UK, and work pay in 12% of my wage every month, without costing me a penny. And they’ll match it up to a further 3%.

Best thing? Should I snuff it before retiring? The entire pot, tax free, goes to my God Sprog. All joking apart, that’s quite possibly a six figure sum in the next 7 years, even if I don’t get further promotions.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

 cuda1179 wrote:
Comparing international life expectancy is meaningless anyway. Every nation has a slightly different way to calculate both infant mortality and life expectancy, so in the end it is a major apples to oranges comparison. If everyone would simply use the UN standards it would help out quite a bit. The US actually has quite broad definitions compared to other countries which makes our life expectancy look a little lower comparatively.


Regardless, the study shows that using our own standards.... we have gotten worse. There is no need to compare against other countries at all to see this is bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
So, at 37, I'll start pulling a pension, with somewhere around $85k in a 401k.

I'll then start a second career, hopefully one that provides a pension as well, but if not, I'll get a Roth going with that one.

At any rate, I'm fairly comfortable with my future prospects of true retirement.


This study seems to indicate that you have a better chance of dying before you retire than similar folks in previous decades.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/04 14:55:05


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ouze wrote:
The US? Turning its back on people who served honorably?

Surely you jest, sir.



You forgot your [/sarcasm] tag so we'd know you were joking....

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
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Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

Snipped: From OPs Article:


but also by a diverse list of diseases affecting organs throughout the body, said lead researcher Dr. Steven Woolf. He's director emeritus of the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine's Center on Society and Health.


I think diet is a huge factor. The one size fits all Food Pyramid that I was taught to memorize growing up in the 80s turned out to be all kinds of garbage, for instance.

I'm sure its a suite of issues all culminating in the decline in life expectancy, but I didn't see diet mentioned in previous comments.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/04 18:17:11


"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





When your diet is not restricted by what is available but by what you can afford, 'good' dietary practices tend to fall by the wayside. And this goes double if you don't have the time to cook fresh for yourself because you're working multiple jobs.

CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
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Made in ca
Three Color Minimum






 Vulcan wrote:
When your diet is not restricted by what is available but by what you can afford, 'good' dietary practices tend to fall by the wayside. And this goes double if you don't have the time to cook fresh for yourself because you're working multiple jobs.


Eating prepared meals, either from the supermarket or fast food chains is not in any way more affordable.
Nor is it any quicker. When it takes 24 minutes (just waiting) for me to get our family an order from McD’s and 35 bucks, it costs twice as much as a healthy home made meal. And a home cooked meal only takes 10 minutes more.

Food conglomerates and fast food chains have you fooled into thinking it’s cheaper and easier to eat out or eat prepared meals.
When it takes me 30 minutes to make a meal, and it costs less than 20 dollars with leftovers to take for lunch the next day, that’s not huge amount of time nor money. I feed my family of four for $500 on average per month.
That’s the same cost as eating out for half the time.

Even working multiple jobs and two kids I can still make healthy meals.
Stop buying into misinformation about eating healthy - it’s not expensive or time-consuming.
It only takes a bit of budgeting and even less time.
Massive food companies want everyone to believe that eating healthy is expensive and difficult.
They make more money that way.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 17:31:50


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Ghool wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
When your diet is not restricted by what is available but by what you can afford, 'good' dietary practices tend to fall by the wayside. And this goes double if you don't have the time to cook fresh for yourself because you're working multiple jobs.


Eating prepared meals, either from the supermarket or fast food chains is not in any way more affordable.
Nor is it any quicker. When it takes 24 minutes (just waiting) for me to get our family an order from McD’s and 35 bucks, it costs twice as much as a healthy home made meal. And a home cooked meal only takes 10 minutes more.

Food conglomerates and fast food chains have you fooled into thinking it’s cheaper and easier to eat out or eat prepared meals.
When it takes me 30 minutes to make a meal, and it costs less than 20 dollars with leftovers to take for lunch the next day, that’s not huge amount of time nor money. I feed my family of four for $500 on average per month.
That’s the same cost as eating out for half the time.

Even working multiple jobs and two kids I can still make healthy meals.
Stop buying into misinformation about eating healthy - it’s not expensive or time-consuming.
It only takes a bit of budgeting and even less time.
Massive food companies want everyone to believe that eating healthy is expensive and difficult.
They make more money that way.
Absolutely true, however there are several other factors as well. Having the skill and knowledge to prepare said food, having the appliances to do that, and perhaps most importantly having the energy to do that. It also does not undermine the main point; even when preparing one's own meals unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food because unhealthy ingredients are cheaper than healthy ones. And that is before getting into matters of literal taste.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre






 Vulcan wrote:
When your diet is not restricted by what is available but by what you can afford, 'good' dietary practices tend to fall by the wayside. And this goes double if you don't have the time to cook fresh for yourself because you're working multiple jobs.


Don't have time to cook fresh? You don't need hot food and brown bagging a lunch takes like 5 minutes in the morning. For the cost of 1 fast food meal I have lunches for a week.

Heck, I knew a guy who would just go to the grocery store, grab a bun and some cold cuts and make a deli sandwich for 1/4 the price, but his lunch box included 5 different sauces to enable it. But it was just as fast as fast food.


   
Made in us
The Hammer of Witches





A new day, a new time zone.

 Galef wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
So, any hypothesis on why the death rate among Young Adults is growing faster in the 2000's than anytime since WWII?
Student loans? No, seriously it's a big problem. The debt most millennials have from going to college is ridiculous. Many are bankrupt.
-


And student loan debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy so there's no escaping it because- (flips back 15 years to the arguments used to justify this) "-I paid for college by working hard at a summer job to cover tuition. Kids shouldn't get a free ride because they're unwilling to do a little hard work.".And so because society and the educational system push heavily on the 'you have to go to college if you want to succeed in life' and student loans are very easy to get, the massive financial decision people are making at that ripe, wise old age of 17-19 becomes a millstone that many have a lot of trouble getting out from under.

After graduation, starting ones adult life with potentially tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars of inescapable debt seriously impacts the later shape of life, especially with the current prospects for new entrants to the job market. Service jobs are plentiful, but low pay, low stability, and low to no benefits. Things that used to be blue collar staples and the road to long term advancement like manufacturing, are shrinking, and the line work is outsourced to employment agencies. Meaning that actually working for the company is eventually possible, but until then, you're an easily replaceable asset.

Although most of it still falls under 'blah blah blah, millenials would be fine if they weren't eating all that avocado toast,' whinging, these's already noticeable consequences from this on things like the housing market. Less stability and large debt early in life have a huge impact on willingness and capability to buy a house, pushing it back to later in life if at all.

Things are going to get really interesting in another 30 years when retirement time starts to hit full swing, and the results of all the pressures that made many people under, or unable to save for retirement are felt in full force (another side effect of inescapable student loan debt - the money that would do the most good by being set aside early and allowed to grow is being eaten up in loan payments).

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Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!





Active Duty Military, 20 years and retired. No student loans, all my college has been taken care of- I actually get more money by going to college full time.

I still work, because I want to and I like the extra pay. But I could survive on my retirement pay.

It's not impossible.

Good dietary practices aren't impossible to get on a budget. Chicken breast and green and red veggies aren't pricey. I avoid fast food unless I'm in dire straits and didn't prepare, or I just want a little treat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Absolutely true, however there are several other factors as well. Having the skill and knowledge to prepare said food, having the appliances to do that, and perhaps most importantly having the energy to do that. It also does not undermine the main point; even when preparing one's own meals unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food because unhealthy ingredients are cheaper than healthy ones. And that is before getting into matters of literal taste.


If I can take apart a transmission and change out my cylinders in a truck with 0 Mechanic experience, a few borrowed tools, and Youtube... there's no excuse to not know how to make your own meal.

If your "Healthy Ingredients" are too expensive, then you probably need to stop going to Trader Joe's or Whole Foods and go down to the actual normal peoples' grocery store or a Farmer's Market if you wanna be picky.

Many of these 'challenges' in life aren't impossible, they just take a little extra work.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 19:53:34


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