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Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/15/ritual-of-the-damned-chapter-focus-dark-angelsgw-homepage-post-2/
WOW
Lazerus give out 5+ FNP bubble at 6" he himself gets a 4+FNP (opps just for mortal wounds)
DA super doctrine is +6 inch range to heavy and rapid fire and +3 to assault (expert marksmen but better)
Chaplin has a litany 6" aura to count as stationary if you don't advance or fall back (Ultramarines superdoctrine)(in effect giving you reroll 1's for their chapter tactic of reroll 1's from being stationary - havnt seen the tactic but it probably got better too)
They also get a pregame move with a biker unit AND the ability to drop in DW terms outside of 6 (this is actually kinda cool)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 17:01:46


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




 Xenomancers wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/15/ritual-of-the-damned-chapter-focus-dark-angelsgw-homepage-post-2/
WOW
Lazerus give out 5+ FNP bubble at 6" he himself gets a 4+FNP (Ironhands chapter tactic +1)
DA super doctrine is +6 inch range to heavy and rapid fire and +3 to assault (expert marksmen but better)
Chaplin has a litany 6" aura to count as stationary if you don't advance or fall back (Ultramarines superdoctrine)(in effect giving you reroll 1's for their chapter tactic of reroll 1's from being stationary - havnt seen the tactic but it probably got better too)
They also get a pregame move with a biker unit AND the ability to drop in DW terms outside of 6 (this is actually kinda cool)

Good stuff GW. Just what everyone wanted. 4++ 5+FNP bubbles with 6" bonus range. Also extremely fluffy - when I think DA...I certainly think about their insane durability...Essentially GW figured DA should have all the abilities of ironhands and ultramarines combined. Plus special units too. GW - fire your rules writers please!


1) Only for Mortal Wounds, L2Read
2) Already spoiled
3) We already knew this as well
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Holy Terra

They do have some great rules. The helm is only for Mortal Wounds, btw.

@Xenomancers

Will you be using your Ultras as Dark Angels now? :-P

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, what KurtAngle said. It seems pretty decent but it's a very conditional FNP bubble. The super doctrine is good but has strange synergy with being a Devastator doctrine but probably having the biggest effect on Rapid Fire weapons since Heavy weapons tend to have long ranges anyway. Stoic and resolute is kind of the DA thing and has been for a very long time so it's not that surprising they get some rules that enhance survivability.

This seems like a very knee-jerk reaction to a small number of reveals. DA will be good - they're Space Marines with all the fancy Doctrine rules now - but it's far too early to say they'll be better than current Codex marines.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






"Oh boy, i sure hope my Ravenwing get something."
"You get to RR1 if you stay still."
screams in secret chaos worship
laughs in Iron Hands getting five traits to Dark Angels one and a half

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slipspace wrote:
Yeah, what KurtAngle said. It seems pretty decent but it's a very conditional FNP bubble.


Might be handy to give to vehicles so they can shrug off haywire, but that's only good for one specific matchup.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Here we go again.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Ishagu wrote:
They do have some great rules. The helm is only for Mortal Wounds, btw.

@Xenomancers

Will you be using your Ultras as Dark Angels now? :-P

No reason no to. Get super doctrine turn 1 and with more range and a 4++ aura. Plus can use the superior stalker pattern. Gain basically nothing for being ultras except I don't have to reroll a 3+ to get my stationary bonus but they can get it turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/15/ritual-of-the-damned-chapter-focus-dark-angelsgw-homepage-post-2/
WOW
Lazerus give out 5+ FNP bubble at 6" he himself gets a 4+FNP (Ironhands chapter tactic +1)
DA super doctrine is +6 inch range to heavy and rapid fire and +3 to assault (expert marksmen but better)
Chaplin has a litany 6" aura to count as stationary if you don't advance or fall back (Ultramarines superdoctrine)(in effect giving you reroll 1's for their chapter tactic of reroll 1's from being stationary - havnt seen the tactic but it probably got better too)
They also get a pregame move with a biker unit AND the ability to drop in DW terms outside of 6 (this is actually kinda cool)

Good stuff GW. Just what everyone wanted. 4++ 5+FNP bubbles with 6" bonus range. Also extremely fluffy - when I think DA...I certainly think about their insane durability...Essentially GW figured DA should have all the abilities of ironhands and ultramarines combined. Plus special units too. GW - fire your rules writers please!


1) Only for Mortal Wounds, L2Read
2) Already spoiled
3) We already knew this as well

It was just released dude - as in today - this is a spoiler. You might have known from a GW spy or something that spoiled the spoiler. This is news to most of us.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/01/15 17:07:50


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Bikes still die too easy.

Plasma still kills expensive 2/3w too easy (natural 1 = 1 mortal please).

No RW characters (they took away all of my biker characters in legends...). I'd love for RW/DW primaris but whatever.

Better than nothing. Just doctrines + litanies will help a lot but nothing game breaking as far as I've seen. Until they reign in the super marines a lot of stuff will seem lack luster.

I really wish they would have taken the time to change the bonus to if you move you get to re-roll 1s (which seems more DA to me) instead of a poor copy paste.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I play DA. I find these rules boooooooriiiiiiing!

Sheesh, reroll this, +X to that, move/shoot/stab again/out of sequence. Some truly inspired stuff.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






bananathug wrote:
Bikes still die too easy.

Plasma still kills expensive 2/3w too easy (natural 1 = 1 mortal please).

No RW characters (they took away all of my biker characters in legends...). I'd love for RW/DW primaris but whatever.

Better than nothing. Just doctrines + litanies will help a lot but nothing game breaking as far as I've seen. Until they reign in the super marines a lot of stuff will seem lack luster.

I really wish they would have taken the time to change the bonus to if you move you get to re-roll 1s (which seems more DA to me) instead of a poor copy paste.

This is super marines. lol. These DA will come with a 4++ aura. Basically the best ability in the game and with bonus range balling up isn't as big as a problem. They will be in the mix.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




Unlike a lot of the other super doctrines this benefits weapons outside of the doctrines initial area. There isn't a single unit that isn't made better by this unlike a lot of chapters.

Flamers now work out of deepstrike, it helps melta weapons get inside threat range, bikes and termies rapid firing at 30" all the time.

Anything that doesn't move, and likely won't need to now, gains rr1's to hit.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator



The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Xenomancers wrote:
bananathug wrote:
Bikes still die too easy.

Plasma still kills expensive 2/3w too easy (natural 1 = 1 mortal please).

No RW characters (they took away all of my biker characters in legends...). I'd love for RW/DW primaris but whatever.

Better than nothing. Just doctrines + litanies will help a lot but nothing game breaking as far as I've seen. Until they reign in the super marines a lot of stuff will seem lack luster.

I really wish they would have taken the time to change the bonus to if you move you get to re-roll 1s (which seems more DA to me) instead of a poor copy paste.

This is super marines. lol. These DA will come with a 4++ aura. Basically the best ability in the game and with bonus range balling up isn't as big as a problem. They will be in the mix.

Have you EVER seen something new and not declared it the best in the game? It's only on mw and for all we know Lazarus is 250 points.

That said anybody saying that super doctrine isn't strong either isn't thinking or being disingenuous. One of nu-marines biggest strengths is primaris increased range compared to normal factions. With this super doctrine da intercessors and hellblasters will out range most other infantry in the game by 50%. If they take the stalker bolt rifle option that goes up another 6 plus an additional -1ap. Plus increased range on everything else.

Someone at gw must have really liked building castles as a kid.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Oh boy, i sure hope my Ravenwing get something."
"You get to RR1 if you stay still."
screams in secret chaos worship
laughs in Iron Hands getting five traits to Dark Angels one and a half


Ravenwing got a bunch of stuff y'all.

A relic that reduces the invulnerable saves of enemy units on extremely mobile biker characters.

A warlord trait that grants a 12" pregame move to the warlord and 1 friendly unit, basically guaranteeing a turn 1 shoot+charge.

A warlord trait that grants a 6" bubble of whatever doctrine you want to be active around the warlord

A stratagem that grants full rerolls to hit for all ravenwing on the board against an enemy target

And you don't even have to pick 1-2 of the 9 new stratagems you got and only use those!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

Complete set of leaks for reference:
Doctrine kicker: While in Devastator Doctrine, Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons get +6" range, Assault and Pistol weapons get +3" range



DW Warlord Traits:

1. DW units within 6" reroll melee wounds versus CHARACTERS or models with 8+ Wounds

2. Wound rolls of 1 -3 automatically fail.

3. Once per battle may Deny the Witch, unlimited range, auto pass

RW Warlord Traits:

1. RW units within 6" move and fire heavy at no penalty and Advance and fire Assault at no penalty

2. Once per battle at start of round, select an inactive Doctrine, RW units within 6" may use that instead of the active

3. Start of first round, Warlord and one other RW unit may move up to 12", no Advance, must stay outside of 9"

Stratagems:

A bunch of the vanilla SM Codex Stratagems (incluing Vet Intercessors and their shooty ones)

Combined Assault (2 CP): Teleporting unit of DW may set up within 6" of a friendly RW unit that hasn't Advanced and outside of 6" from enemy

High Speed Focus (1 CP): RW unit targeted by shooting counts as having Jinked that turn.

Full Throttle (1 CP): RW unit that just moved immediately moves again, may not shoot or charge that turn

Targeting Guidance (1 CP): Pick an enemy unit within 12" of a RW Land Speder and visible, DA units may reroll shooting hits against it this phase.

Outnumbered Never Outmatched (1 CP): DW unit chosen to fight gets +1 A when fighting enemy unit of 10 or more models

Evasive Assault (1 CP): RW unit that charged or has been charged is chosen as a target, it gets 5++



Relics

Reliquiary of the Repenant: RW Bike only, Enemy models within 3" reduce invul by 1 to minimum 6++

Corvus Occuls: Talonmaster, +6" to range weapons and +1 to hit with range weapons

Standard of the Unforgiven Hunt: RW Ancient, +1 Advance/cherge for RW within 6"
Blade of Burden: DW Master w/ power sword, S+2 AP-4, D2, natural wound of 6 is 2 MW

Pennant of the Remeberance: DW Ancient, 5+ Fnp for DW INFANTRY within 6"

???? - DW only, +1 S and A

Special Issue Wargear
Adamantite Mantle, Artificer Armor, Mastercrafted Weapon, Digital Weapons

Arbititer Gaze: Ignores shooting and BS penalties, Overwatches on full BS

Angel's Ambit: +3" to aura abilities

Bolt of Judgement: pick a bolt weapon, it may fire a bolt of judgment, makes one attack at AP -2 and 3 D, wounds on 2+ excpet Vehicles/Monsters 6+



Lazarus

Standard Primaris Master Line (W6 A5)

Emity's Edge S+2 AP -4 Dd3, reroll wound and damage vs Psyker

Spiritshield Helm: 6" 5+ FnP versus MW aura (or something similar)

Intractable Will: Built in Only In Death Does Duty End"
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
bananathug wrote:
Bikes still die too easy.

Plasma still kills expensive 2/3w too easy (natural 1 = 1 mortal please).

No RW characters (they took away all of my biker characters in legends...). I'd love for RW/DW primaris but whatever.

Better than nothing. Just doctrines + litanies will help a lot but nothing game breaking as far as I've seen. Until they reign in the super marines a lot of stuff will seem lack luster.

I really wish they would have taken the time to change the bonus to if you move you get to re-roll 1s (which seems more DA to me) instead of a poor copy paste.

This is super marines. lol. These DA will come with a 4++ aura. Basically the best ability in the game and with bonus range balling up isn't as big as a problem. They will be in the mix.

Have you EVER seen something new and not declared it the best in the game? It's only on mw and for all we know Lazarus is 250 points.

That said anybody saying that super doctrine isn't strong either isn't thinking or being disingenuous. One of nu-marines biggest strengths is primaris increased range compared to normal factions. With this super doctrine da intercessors and hellblasters will out range most other infantry in the game by 50%. If they take the stalker bolt rifle option that goes up another 6 plus an additional -1ap. Plus increased range on everything else.

Someone at gw must have really liked building castles as a kid.

Azreal is not new. his 4++ aura for infantry is the best aura in the game. It's reroll all hits and 4++ save to infantry. Please find me a better aura. Keep in mind they did remove Gmans reroll all wounds aura.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 BaconCatBug wrote:
"Oh boy, i sure hope my Ravenwing get something."
"You get to RR1 if you stay still."
screams in secret chaos worship
laughs in Iron Hands getting five traits to Dark Angels one and a half



   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Meanwhile Iron Hands get that on every single unit for free and also get RR1 whether they move or not and don't have to a) Babysit a Warlord and b) Sacrifice a Warlord Trait for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 18:26:24


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Hmmm. I have loads of un painted Primaris Intercessors (and surprisingly, still have the Dark Vengeance special Chaplain).

I've been stuck on Raven Guard or seeing what Dark Angels get to decide which chapter to make em.

Preference for Primaris only.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Thanks necron.

Wow. That is a lot of good stuff.
-1 Invune 3" aura and you can just full throttle the dude in there for with a 2 inch long bike for 1 CP. That is going to be powerful.

Certainly a lot of tools. The biggest factor is
Dev Doctrines Super doctrine (makes no sense but okay) gives bonus range to every ranged weapon in the army not a grenade.




If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





As someone who tends to play Ultramarines and White Scars I'm actually a little jealous. DA can now replicate a lot of the shenanigans that I favor those two chapters for.

That super docrtine would be much better on Tactical Doctrine though.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 BaconCatBug wrote:
Meanwhile Iron Hands get that on every single unit for free and also get RR1 whether they move or not and don't have to a) Babysit a Warlord and b) Sacrifice a Warlord Trait for it.

Not the assault weapons part. That is huge too. I think DA can just take a WL trait for 1 CP. 1 CP to get Ironhands best ability but better and you still have your own super doctrine...kinda silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Newman wrote:
As someone who tends to play Ultramarines and White Scars I'm actually a little jealous. DA can now replicate a lot of the shenanigans that I favor those two chapters for.

That super docrtine would be much better on Tactical Doctrine though.

You should be jealous they got all your rules and tricks and have tricks of their own. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Ultras have been shafted.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 18:35:25


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 BaconCatBug wrote:
Meanwhile Iron Hands get that on every single unit for free and also get RR1 whether they move or not and don't have to a) Babysit a Warlord and b) Sacrifice a Warlord Trait for it.


And RW get Jink for free, don't have to go to successor for the extra range (which covers more weapons) and have some very excellent combinations. Not to mention IH are borked and shouldn't the the standard to aspire to.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/15 18:54:23


   
Made in us
Guarding Guardian




Kenosha, WI

So, what are the ravenwing character options we have to use all these new warlord traits and relics on?
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

Blastaar wrote:
I play DA. I find these rules boooooooriiiiiiing!

Sheesh, reroll this, +X to that, move/shoot/stab again/out of sequence. Some truly inspired stuff.


Better than the boring IF crap.
   
Made in gb
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




 Elhazard wrote:
So, what are the ravenwing character options we have to use all these new warlord traits and relics on?


The talonmaster I think hes called? Basically a landspeeder with a melee characters profile that grants reroll 1's to ravenwing within 6" from memory, pretty decent character tbh.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Xenomancers wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
They do have some great rules. The helm is only for Mortal Wounds, btw.

@Xenomancers

Will you be using your Ultras as Dark Angels now? :-P

No reason no to. Get super doctrine turn 1 and with more range and a 4++ aura. Plus can use the superior stalker pattern. Gain basically nothing for being ultras except I don't have to reroll a 3+ to get my stationary bonus but they can get it turn 1.
.


the DA litany isd only a 6 inch bubble if used, given the advantage of the UM super doctrine is to allow increased mobility etc I'd say the DA litany is not really going to be a acceptable subsisute

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




RW ancient, champion, apothecary or a talonmaster...

I get your point and I wish there was a way I could bring a RW chaplain/master (that's not a named character) but GW has decided to squat (legends are squatted I don't care what you say) all characters on bikes.

Guess we have to wait until the next release of primaris on bikes to re-buy the fluffy elements of our GOSH DARNED BIKER ARMY!!!! Makes about sense as our chapter tactic for a quick strike chapter being built around standing still...

Same way that WD article mentioned aggressors being folded into DW but without keywords to support it it falls flat. Inceptors should be RW and aggressors should be DW but that's too many moving parts for GW to juggle I guess...
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Nothing Primaris should be Deathwing. In fact the Dark Angels and The Unforgiven should not be accepting Primaris in any way, shape, or form if the Lore was going to be correctly followed.

But in a post Gathering Storm era GW doesn't give a Grots Bollocks about the lore anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 20:30:40


Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294 +++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 Elhazard wrote:
So, what are the ravenwing character options we have to use all these new warlord traits and relics on?


Talonmaster - flying Lieutenant )reroll 1s to wound bubble) with twin assault cannon and twin heavy bolter.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
 
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