Switch Theme:

Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




San Diego, CA

Warriors of Titan,
This will be the new thread for discussing Grey Knights Tactica in light of the significant changes GK received in Psychic Awakening: Ritual of the Damned. Please feel free to re-post anything from the old thread that is relevant (math-hammer, battle reports, etc).

Summary of updates:
- Grey Knights have their own version of Doctrines, the "Tides of the Warp". They buff GK smites, shooting, defense, and melee. One active per turn, can change with WC5 power in psychic phase

- New psychic discipline, the "Dominus Discipline"

-New Stratagems, some copy-paste from Codex: Space Marines and some unique to Grey Knights

-New Litanies for Chaplains

-Codified "Bolter Discipline" and "Shock Assault" for Grey Knights units.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------'

Edit (3/23/20): 40kstats.com has top 4 lists for most GT+ events, link here: https://www.40kstats.com/topfactionlists

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 03:31:17


Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I really did wish for new Warlord Traits, but getting Raven Guard defensive bonuses kinda makes up for it. However I wish we were better as a mixed army. As is, you get nothing from adding Grey Knights to your army, and they work better stand alone.
First To The Fray is still the best Warlord Trait it looks like.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




San Diego, CA

Agree, though Lore Master has some niche play so you can take both Sanctic and Dominus powers (barring a FAQ). I’ve always been looking for a way to make Hammer of righteousness work (cause +2 to wound combined with hammer hand) but without reliable charges it’s not great (same with +1 damage trait).

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I foresee 30 Interceptors being standard very soon.
With the Tides and COmbat squads you can jump in an oponents face and do a potential 12 mortals (24 to demons) turn 1 in addition to whatever bolters do.

Then charge, its going to be nasty, to armies without enough screening.
   
Made in au
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation





For competitive mono GK-builds, I see a mass reduction in GMNDK units per army lists. One at most, but most likely none if the player is going to build around the Warp Tide abilities to the maximum.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




demontalons wrote:
I foresee 30 Interceptors being standard very soon.
With the Tides and COmbat squads you can jump in an oponents face and do a potential 12 mortals (24 to demons) turn 1 in addition to whatever bolters do.

Then charge, its going to be nasty, to armies without enough screening.


I would expect to see at least one unit in almost every list, combat squads or not, for just over 100 points you can put down a solid amount of fire anywhere on the map. They are the forward objective humpers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
For competitive mono GK-builds, I see a mass reduction in GMNDK units per army lists. One at most, but most likely none if the player is going to build around the Warp Tide abilities to the maximum.


I still plan on fielding 1, although hes 1 out of 5 HQs. Goonhammer has a good article up right now discussing GMDKs melee weapons, i'm going to give the great hammer another shot.

We have a ton of amazing support characters now, damn near every one of them has 2+ WS and can wield a hammer for 13 points, and with super smites i think i'd be better off with a second Brother Captain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/28 18:53:05


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Waking Dreamer wrote:
For competitive mono GK-builds, I see a mass reduction in GMNDK units per army lists. One at most, but most likely none if the player is going to build around the Warp Tide abilities to the maximum.


GMNDK are probably only the way to go for Soup Detachments that don't get the tides.
   
Made in de
Hungry Little Ripper





demontalons wrote:
I foresee 30 Interceptors being standard very soon.
With the Tides and COmbat squads you can jump in an oponents face and do a potential 12 mortals (24 to demons) turn 1 in addition to whatever bolters do.

Then charge, its going to be nasty, to armies without enough screening.


Im already building a list with 2 batallions and 20 Interceptors and a Paladin Squad simply with the idea that

- strike squad can camp objectives and collect points

- paladin bomb with full buffs and chaplain / voldus / draigo auras and buffs to wreak havoc and survive long enough

- 12 CP out of 2 Batallions to support all the Stratagems and Buffs the Paladins get on top of 1 CP regen from Characters, enough for 2-3 Rounds of Paladin Havoc

- 2 Interceptor squads to shunt towards the Paladin and the character auras for a massive alpha strike and after that you have a very mobile army which can use 12 inch movement through everything

- 1 Apothecary for a 2 CP character snipe inner fire Talibnight. If the situation of bad opponment shielding happens, he can possibly snipe a character, if not then you can use him to stay with the Bomb and heal / revive Paladins

- Draigo, Voldus, Librarian, Chaplain as Characters for a lot of Casts and Buffs and Auras (CP regen, Shoot range, 2x Tide Switch (too important to have just 1), Shoot then Move Edict, 2x Inner Fire (in case of Melee or Suicide Bomb), Resilence) on top of Sanctuary, Vortex of Doom Astral Aim and Gate from normal Troops / Interceptors on top of Draigo reroll Aura

There is going to be a lot of psi powers and buffing going around and we might need a flowchart to keep track of everything

Only Downside is: No GKNDK (too expensive, doesnt benefit much from all the edicts / auras / buffs), no Dreadnought (not enough firepower, no mobility) and you need to rely on paladins and weight of fire + Stratagems to bring down armored units. But you can possibly use Draigo with Inner Fire and Stratagem to melee down a Tank / Dreadnought / Knight plus you have a lot of Smites going around


Only question i have is wheter we can switch tides twice a round ... like start with Shadow then switch to escalation and smite, then switch to convergence and shoot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/28 21:08:59


 
   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar






I've gotten one game in so far with GK's new goodies. I used a double Battalion, with a list focused on Smite spam and Psilencers. I had: Draigo, Voldus, 2 Brother Captains with Psilencers, a Librarian, 6 Strike Squads, 10 man Paladins with 4 Psilencers, 2 Purgation squads with Psilencers. I had intended to switch between Tide of Escalation and Tide of Convergence, but ended up bouncing between Shadows and Escalation all game. I was playing against Necrons, so the Shadows helping to negate Tesla was huge. The new powers and Stratagems were very synergistic. I took the Artisan Nullifier Matrix, and it saved me from perils almost every turn, as I used a moving castle of characters and Paladins. Armored Resilience on Paladins with Tide of Shadows makes them incredibly resilient. I would use the Empyric Surge stratagem almost every turn as well, to ensure my powers went off, which they did incredibly reliably. I ensured my Brother Captains were spread across my forces to be able to Smite at 24" with everyone that I wanted to, and it worked very well.

4k
2k
1.5k
1k
 
   
Made in au
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation





 FFridge wrote:


Only question i have is wheter we can switch tides twice a round ... like start with Shadow then switch to escalation and smite, then switch to convergence and shoot.


To switch Tides you need to cast a psychic power. Matched play rules say you can only cast the same psychic power once per psychic phase.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Waking Dreamer wrote:
 FFridge wrote:


Only question i have is wheter we can switch tides twice a round ... like start with Shadow then switch to escalation and smite, then switch to convergence and shoot.


To switch Tides you need to cast a psychic power. Matched play rules say you can only cast the same psychic power once per psychic phase.

So to build off this, you can only switch once a turn.
Theory crafting, my thing is, if I start first, I'm going with the Smite bonus and then switching to Defense. Going second, I'll start with Defense and then switch to Smite or even the rerolling 1s to wound. Mostly if they're up in my face.

The bonus to Psi weapons sucks. It benefits so little outside you wanting to land max squads of Storm Bolters for one time. Just absolutely not worth it.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany

I liked the combination of some Grey Knights and a Knight. Doesn't seem to be viable at all anymore, as I lose the best rules. :(
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Aeri wrote:
I liked the combination of some Grey Knights and a Knight. Doesn't seem to be viable at all anymore, as I lose the best rules. :(

Indeed, the new rules would be gone.

It also appears that GMNDK's are no longer a mandatory choice for a GK army, dito for Dreads.
So Techmarines are no longer viable as well despite the new relic offering 2D3 wounds back.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Idk about tech marines being not viable, they are still the cheapest hq in the book as well as being a psycic and a chr so they can use the new spells.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Incinerators are still poop, right? Too expensive and no good way outside of a Dynamic Insertion Paladin squad to get a bunch in range?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/29 13:59:03


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Incinerators are still poop, right? Too expensive and no good way outside of a Dynamic Insertion Paladin squad to get a bunch in range?

Indeed, the fall down behind with no real support by the new supplement.

Idk about tech marines being not viable, they are still the cheapest hq in the book as well as being a psycic and a chr so they can use the new spells

How about the new Inquisition.
Will there eventually be a possibility to use them as well?


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Tyrant of Badab






HATE Club, East London

Okay, I have a question. Not wanting to be especially competitive, but also not wanting to lose every game...

I have about 20 or so of the old metal Grey Knight Terminator models, and can make some Grey Knight Librarians and Chaplains in Terminator armour from bits of the same era. Could an army of Grey Knight Terminators (and/or Paladins) with Character support be viable for casual play?

Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire. 
   
Made in de
Hungry Little Ripper





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
 FFridge wrote:


Only question i have is wheter we can switch tides twice a round ... like start with Shadow then switch to escalation and smite, then switch to convergence and shoot.


To switch Tides you need to cast a psychic power. Matched play rules say you can only cast the same psychic power once per psychic phase.

So to build off this, you can only switch once a turn.
Theory crafting, my thing is, if I start first, I'm going with the Smite bonus and then switching to Defense. Going second, I'll start with Defense and then switch to Smite or even the rerolling 1s to wound. Mostly if they're up in my face.

The bonus to Psi weapons sucks. It benefits so little outside you wanting to land max squads of Storm Bolters for one time. Just absolutely not worth it.


Idk. There are still lot of psyker armys out there like tyranids who can deny and inquisitors who can lower your psi rolls or assassins and better psykers like thousand sons. An army with guns can still cast psi but an psi army wihout guns would have a bigger Problem when countered
   
Made in au
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation





 wuestenfux wrote:
Aeri wrote:
I liked the combination of some Grey Knights and a Knight. Doesn't seem to be viable at all anymore, as I lose the best rules. :(

Indeed, the new rules would be gone.

It also appears that GMNDK's are no longer a mandatory choice for a GK army, dito for Dreads.
So Techmarines are no longer viable as well despite the new relic offering 2D3 wounds back.


Woah, let's not get carried away here. There is a BIG difference between not being mandatory and not being "viable".

GMNDKs and Ven.dreads are definitely viable...they have specific roles no other GK units do better - they're just not optimal with the Warp Tides as other units. Your definitely not going to auto-lose by bringing them along.

 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

The idea that the psy weapon tide is "trash" is just hilariously wrong. One 10-man squad with Storm Bolters popping Psybolt Ammunition against a T4 3+ target gets more than 8 extra damage through. That's eight units' worth of extra smites against perhaps the most relevant statline in the meta without any supporting characters and not counting any other psy weapons in your army that would benefit. It also doesn't require casting eight smites and can be targeted instead of just hitting the closest model. Not to mention you can cast your smites first and cast your tide-swapping power before the shooting phase.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in au
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation





 Fifty wrote:
Okay, I have a question. Not wanting to be especially competitive, but also not wanting to lose every game...

I have about 20 or so of the old metal Grey Knight Terminator models, and can make some Grey Knight Librarians and Chaplains in Terminator armour from bits of the same era. Could an army of Grey Knight Terminators (and/or Paladins) with Character support be viable for casual play?


Definitely. Let them feel the table once again.

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




As someone who's been playing against the Grey Knights new rules regularly, I'd still argue for keeping GMDK and out of LoS Nauts in lists. I typically bring two repulsor executioners with some sort of CM rerolls. They scare me still more then the janky combos the infantry have.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 wuestenfux wrote:
Aeri wrote:
I liked the combination of some Grey Knights and a Knight. Doesn't seem to be viable at all anymore, as I lose the best rules. :(

Indeed, the new rules would be gone.

It also appears that GMNDK's are no longer a mandatory choice for a GK army, dito for Dreads.
So Techmarines are no longer viable as well despite the new relic offering 2D3 wounds back.

Dreads carry all the actual anti-tank weapons. If you're not using Fliers to do the same thing, these are obviously the next choice. Plus doesn't one of the new powers let you fall back and shoot? That'd be good for a camping Techmarine with them.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Can you use Psybolt Ammunition on a unit that's shooting in the psychic phase through Edict Imperator? Because if you can you can effectively get both the smite and a psy-ammo-boosted unit shot every turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/29 18:12:59


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I would say yes, I dont see why not.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move, shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power) outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?
A:
With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g. abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ, Overwatch attacks are not considered to be attacks made as if it were your Shooting phase.



Our Stratagems say "when the unit shoots" sooooo, its ok because its not " must be used in a specific phase"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/29 20:01:32


 
   
Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Augusta GA

It doesn’t say anything about the shooting phase though, it’s just ‘before a unit shoots’. Being an old codex with old wording has its perks sometimes.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Yea, just editet my post because i checked the wording ^^
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

So with proper usage, you can go smite, change to psybolts and shoot, and then next turn fire a psybolt unit with the psychic power before shifting to smite, and then smiting before changing to psybolts the turn after that, effectively getting most of the benefits of both each turn?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Augusta GA

You can also use psybolt ammo twice a turn, doing it once in the psychic phase and again in the shooting phase.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: