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How do?

Bit of a perennial favourite thread. But hey, we’re in a new decade Dakka, so let us dust off this old chestnut, and give it a bit of a polish.

As the title says, what is, so far as you are aware, the oldest kit still in service for a given range? And when, to the best of your knowledge, did it come out?

Here’s my brains on the matter.

Space Marines

Space Marine Bikers. Proper, proper old these. Genuinely, 2nd Edition old. That’s older than many a Dakkanaut. They pre-date everything else in the Space Marine range. How they’ve not been revisited since (unlike the Attack Bike) I honestly don’t know.

Necrons
N
The humble (and getting weedier with every Codex) Necron Warrior. Came out a little bit before the Destroyer and Monolith.

Craftworld Eldar

OK. I had to check GW’s store for this.... It’s the Eldar Warlock! Three out of the five designs may actually be Rogue Trader. Ooop, tell a lie. Those still in production are apparently 2nd Ed - source. Now, if someone with a better memory or research skills could confirm whether they pip the Space Marine Bike to the post, I’m fairly sure we’ll have the ‘winner’. And no Space Marine players. That doesn’t allow us to whine about not being updated properly.

Tyranids

99% sure that’ll be the Termagants/Hormagants (used to be a mixed box). Oh how they need it. Models are still largely serviceable. But I’ve hated the two part heads ever since I first built them. And I built my local store’s samples, that means I’ve almost certainly hated the two part heads longer than any other Dakkanaut. Probably. So there. It’s therefore my lawn, and you’re the damn kids!

Dark Eldar

Haha! Trickery! It was Drazhar, but the original model is now a goner, and the replacement still technically available. He’ll just cost you £165.00.

Right, that’s as much as I can be arsed with right now. Over to you.

No. Wait.....I just remembered.....

Space Wolves

Ragnar. Sodding. Blackmane. The youngest Wolf Lord ever is GW’s oldest model still in service. 1992. 1992? I’d barely been banished from Scotland at that point!

Bikers are from 2nd Ed old? Did not think they were THAT old.

Learn something every day, I guess.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Bikers are from 2nd Ed old? Did not think they were THAT old.

Earliest I can find them on The Stuff of Legends is the 1997 Annual - but I swear they're earlier than that.

Now, if someone with a better memory or research skills could confirm whether they pip the Space Marine Bike to the post,

SM bike was 1996. Some of those Eldar warlocks date from 1994. Still younger than Ragnar Blackmane, though.

I have the 2-part Citadel Miniatures Catalogue from 1991, the 3rd part from 1993 and the '95-'96, '97 and '99 Annuals, as well as most issues of WD from that period. Anything else you want checking?

Do the bikes still come with the flat connection for the rider’s torsos? I thought they were re-cut at some point to the modern rounded ones.

Space marine bikes underwent a minor conversion around 4th I believe - the backpack is a modern one, not the 2nd ed one with the little reactor vent in the middle https://www.sprubitz.co.uk/space-marine-backpack-back-pack-mkii-2012-p.asp

I'm not sure why they chose to modify just that part, but there you go.

The oldest unmodified plastic kit is the vyper. They added the Eldar heavy weapon frame to the box, but the sprue itself is unchanged from ~95.

Ragnar is the oldest miniature in production (I've still got my original lead pewter version), but technically his double flag pole backpack was replaced in 3rd with a poleless one, so the modern model is not really original.

The next oldest (I can't remember what date was stamped on their tabs but I think it was 93) is the avatar, Phoenix lords, warp spiders and warlocks which were all made around 93. The Eldar codex was published in 94, which is also the same year the space Wolves were released.


All in all, the Eldar have the most models from 2nd ed and all of them are unmodified from their original incarnation.

 Nevelon wrote:
Do the bikes still come with the flat connection for the rider’s torsos? I thought they were re-cut at some point to the modern rounded ones.

They don't have the flat torso attachment anymore. Iirc the wheels originally came on separate sprues, too. The same wheels were shared by the Ork Buggy, I think. However the bike design is basically identical to the 2nd Ed one.

I think a couple of the Servitor sculpts are older than the 2nd Ed bike, although they're finecast now, rather than metal. The "Armor Through the Ages" features sculpts that have been around since Rogue Trader.

The Space Marine Boxnaught is essentially the same model as the 2nd Ed era one/s. The major change is the Auto-Launchers, which are spindly compared to the original metal ones (which looked much better).

I think it is the land raider for us.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ragnar. Sodding. Blackmane. The youngest Wolf Lord ever is GW’s oldest model still in service. 1992. 1992? I’d barely been banished from Scotland at that point!

I'd bet good money he gets the Primaris treatment with their update.

For csm probably the zerkers and or defiler.

Berzerkers by a country mile. Can’t quite recall if they were just before or just after 3rd, but Defiler for sure wasn’t until 3.5 Codex.

I think, perhaps, just before 3rd Ed, as their pistols are the bulkier design?

Berserkers were released with the first 3rd ed chaos codex.

Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Id say gazghkull is the oldest Ork model, but he's about to be updated as well (and he's only about 20 years old).

It's actually pretty mind boggling that the craftworld eldar not only have the oldest minis, but have so many.

Avatar
5x phoenix lords
2x warlocks
Warp spiders
Vyper
Falcon

They have the two oldest plastic kits

Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

What is the single oldest model mold still in use right now?

Ragnar, I think.

Regardless of the backpack change, he’s from 1992.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Hellebore wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Not exactly. If the sprue for the Boyz remains unchanged and they only added a sprue to the box then that can make them very old.

 Imateria wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Not exactly. If the sprue for the Boyz remains unchanged and they only added a sprue to the box then that can make them very old.

That's true, and that's what they did with the vyper and falcon and heavy weapon sprue.

The Ork boy though we're recut completely to add nob and heavy shoota parts and sell them in boxes of 10 instead of the original 16 basic boyz

I think for Guard it's Catachan. Not 100% sure though. Yarrick might be a contender though. I think Straken, Harker, Creed, and Kell all came out during 4th Ed with the original metal Cadian Company Command squad (the Commissar models might be from that time too).

I can recognize most of Rogue Trader through 3rd Ed from my collecting habits, but there's still plenty of gaps, and I don't know what was released/halted release during late 3rd through 4th ed.

Termagaunts are WAY older than the current hormagaunts. Hormagaunts at least have a single head part not a split head which drives me nuts with Termagaunts!


That said, honestly, besides the split head Termaguaunts have really weathered their age surprisingly well. Even after the two big shifts in tyranid design asthetics.

Back when GW gave them two or three additional not-in-kit weapons it was more of a pain that you couldn't get spike rifles and the like. However since GW pulled back from that the Termagaunt only suffers with its split-head-personalty.

Edit - actually the biovore is pretty old and was just finecast converted and was still in metal before that (I'm also convinced that the pyrovore was a replacement that simply got named something else - especially as for a close-combat flamer its cannon is REALLY badly shaped for the job and would look far better as a long ranged artillery - its even got the "sporemine" lumps in its udders?).
The warrior kit is also pretty old, however they have updated it with some new parts ,but I believe the overall design is still of a similar generation to the Termagaunt.

Red Terror also comes from that generation of models as well.

Guard: catachan Infantry (3rd edition)
SM: rhino (bikes and landspeeders were recut)
CSM: Fabius Bile, bikers
Eldar: the many collected above
Orks: deffkopta (late 2nd edition)
Nids: gaunts/warriors
Wolves: ragnar
DA: Azrael
BA: tycho
GK: stern
Tau: kroot
Necrons: warriors
Inquisition: inquisitors and henchmen

Everything else is 4th edition or later.

For Imperial Guard?

Technically, it’s the Basilisk Cannon itself. Not the chassis, just the Cannon. To the best of my knowledge, that’s also a 2nd Ed hold over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orks is 100% the Deffkopta.

The current Ork aesthetic is solid 3rd Ed. Deffkopta is from Gorkamorka, which was a 2nd Ed affair.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For Imperial Guard?

Technically, it’s the Basilisk Cannon itself. Not the chassis, just the Cannon. To the best of my knowledge, that’s also a 2nd Ed hold over.

Yeah, the basilisk set comes with a chimera chassis sprue, the tank accessories sprue, and a special little sprue for the gun and deck assembly. The first one I got had the gun sprue in a different color plastic from the rest of the sprues.

For a whole model, there's so many floating like single or double-model blisters, if I were to take a guess it'd be something like "Cadian with Plasmagun".

Hellebore wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Not exactly. If the sprue for the Boyz remains unchanged and they only added a sprue to the box then that can make them very old.

That's true, and that's what they did with the vyper and falcon and heavy weapon sprue.

The Ork boy though we're recut completely to add nob and heavy shoota parts and sell them in boxes of 10 instead of the original 16 basic boyz

So? They’re the same mould. I buy an Ork boy from 1999 and it is IDENTICAL to an Ork Boy now. Therefore they’re old AF. You are the one using an arbitrary reason to claim that they’re anything but ancient.

It’s not though.

Shootas used to be separate pieces, now they come moulded onto the right arm piece.

Add in the additional bits and bobs, and whilst elements were carried over, it remains an updated kit.

Otherwise, we’d have to count the Space Marine Tactical Squad for the same reason.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For Imperial Guard?

Technically, it’s the Basilisk Cannon itself. Not the chassis, just the Cannon. To the best of my knowledge, that’s also a 2nd Ed hold over.

Yeah, the basilisk set comes with a chimera chassis sprue, the tank accessories sprue, and a special little sprue for the gun and deck assembly. The first one I got had the gun sprue in a different color plastic from the rest of the sprues.

For a whole model, there's so many floating like single or double-model blisters, if I were to take a guess it'd be something like "Cadian with Plasmagun".

I don't think the double blisters are though, at least not the Cadian ones. I've got an old copy of the 3rd Ed rulebook and, while it has plastic Catachans showcased, it still uses the metal leather armoured Cadians with the Starship Troopers-like helmet and giant metal plates as pauldrons.

Basalisk Cannon is a possibility. I bought a lot on eBay of some old Guard vehicles, including a Basalisk with the old Chimera chasis. There's another guy in the group with a modern one. I could compare his Basalisk to mine.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s not though.

Shootas used to be separate pieces, now they come moulded onto the right arm piece.

Add in the additional bits and bobs, and whilst elements were carried over, it remains an updated kit.

Otherwise, we’d have to count the Space Marine Tactical Squad for the same reason.

The Shootas are moulded onto different arm pieces, 8 right, 2 left I believe. The additional bits and bobs are Nob and heavy weapons options. That’s it. There aren’t ‘elements’ carried over. The models are identical.

Tactical marines received a completely new kit with the latest kit, no? They received a lot more than just a few bits and bobs. The entire kit was redone.

Presumably then the Falcon and Vyper fall into this Boyz category as they received extra heavy weapons also? Which I find bizarre because it literally has ‘1997’ printed on the sprue.

Still - if you only want oldest, the Deffkopta is the oldest.

Ork Deffkopta (aka Dregmek Blitzkart) still offered in metal, yet :+) Wonder if they are all remnants of the original production, or if GW keep a Grot somewhere toiling over a hot lead pan and drop mould :-))

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s not though.

Shootas used to be separate pieces, now they come moulded onto the right arm piece.

Add in the additional bits and bobs, and whilst elements were carried over, it remains an updated kit.

Otherwise, we’d have to count the Space Marine Tactical Squad for the same reason.

The Shootas are moulded onto different arm pieces, 8 right, 2 left I believe. The additional bits and bobs are Nob and heavy weapons options. That’s it. There aren’t ‘elements’ carried over. The models are identical.

Tactical marines received a completely new kit with the latest kit, no? They received a lot more than just a few bits and bobs. The entire kit was redone.

Presumably then the Falcon and Vyper fall into this Boyz category as they received extra heavy weapons also? Which I find bizarre because it literally has ‘1997’ printed on the sprue.

Still - if you only want oldest, the Deffkopta is the oldest.

The sprue was recut and they decided to use some of the same designs. It is, by definition not the same kit. It uses some of the same parts from another kit but that doesn't make it the same kit.

The Falcon heavy weapons are on a separate sprue so they could be used across every Eldar unit. They didn recut the Falcon sprue. As you point out, it still says 1997.

The Ork boy sprue doesn't say 2000

This guy

is still on sale as part of the 'Armour Through The Ages' set and appears in the first Citadel Miniatures Catalogue from 1991. So, older than Ragnar. He comes with a new-style backpack these days, though, if that matters.