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What do you feel is the required Etequette for taking photos of games?
Never take photos of games. Too many legal issues.
Never take photos without permission.
Take photos but only post with permission.
Take photos of game however you want.

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Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





This came up in another thread, including a talk about the legality of consent, and the definition of a public place.

What are people's opinions about photographing games with pick up opponents?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Just ask like a normal person?
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






Gordoape wrote:
Just ask like a normal person?


Hush you with your logic based in reality...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Hamilton, ON

You don't, strictly speaking, need consent from anyone, anywhere, to take photos of objects in a public place absent a specific contractual term.

None of that is legal advice and you can't rely on it.

Common decency would require at least pretending that consent mattered, though. If I don't want you taking pics of my dudespeople and you persist then I'm just gonna pack up and walk away.

Though I can't for the life of me think of any scenario where I wouldn't want other people to photograph my stuff.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






The only scenario I can think of if someone would try to make money from the images/your work?
Then I guess you'd want a piece of the pie rather then stop them lol.

Like if they kept on stealing pictures to put up on their social media to get credit for the paint job or promote their commission painting business?

Or something I dunno.. I'm clutching at straws here hahah... None of this really makes sense to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also there's a difference between taking pictures of someone playing the game, I.e. Their person/face (especially if they are underage) and taking a picture of just the game table itself, full of your own minis engaging in battle with some other minins with no players in the shot..

The OP certainly wouldn't be ambiguous with the wording on purpose to try and prove a point I'm sure of it.
However, an oversight which may muddy the waters notheless..

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/04 00:43:13


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

This has become more and more of a minefield.

First up it can vary based on where you are located - eg a private property or shop can enact its own rules which can restrict or allow photography. In addition in many open areas and public areas you don't have an expectation of privacy so photography is generally allowed.

That's a VERY BASIC and not legal understanding in most western nations.


So at most game clubs or shops it would either be allowed (public) unless the owner of the property has rules to say otherwise.

There's also loads of rules for allowing editorial publication of photography



That is all assuming people are in the photograph; which is basically about the only really complicated area and has become far more "at risk". This is before you consider that many clubs will have under 18s which opens up an entirely new can of potential worms.




That said mostly its not an issue - you just do the polite thing and ask the people in the shot. Considering most game clubs are not going to be 50 strong members it shouldn't be hard to just ask. Most people are fine.


If its just photos of the game itself then you should be totally fine, though again do ask as even taking photos might be distracting/annoying etc... Plus its just good manners.



If you're at a public event then the organisers policies would be the first port of call to check; if they allow photography (they might restrict it or not) then you're back to being polite and asking but should be fine otherwise.

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






The fact is that there are almost zero laws protecting anyone from having their picture taken. "Your property" doesn't matter if it's public view and you have no legal reasonable expectation of privacy. You have absolutely no say where someone points their camera, unless you can present a legal reasonable expectation of privacy. This has become a massive deal with the advent and popularity of drones, both state and personally owned.

Now, what they do with the pictures is more subject to legal consideration. But snapping pictures? You have zero legal footing to ban/stop/bar someone from doing that, particularly in a public place. On private property, the property owner has the right to do whatever they want, and ban whatever they want. If someone is using imagery of you or your property to earn or make a profit, that becomes a different issue.

Go try to sue Google for taking a picture of your house for Google "Street View", etc. Good luck.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 00:40:54


 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






 Elbows wrote:
The fact is that there are almost zero laws protecting anyone from having their picture taken. "Your property" doesn't matter if it's public view and you have no legal reasonable expectation of privacy. You have absolutely no say where someone points their camera, unless you can present a legal reasonable expectation of privacy. This has become a massive deal with the advent and popularity of drones, both state and personally owned.

Now, what they do with the pictures is more subject to legal consideration. But snapping pictures? You have zero legal footing to ban/stop/bar someone from doing that, particularly in a public place. On private property, the property owner has the right to do whatever they want, and ban whatever they want. If someone is using imagery of you or your property to earn or make a profit, that becomes a different issue.

Go try to sue Google for taking a picture of your house for Google "Street View", etc. Good luck.


But what if I happen to be playing Warhammer in my back garden at the time?

Interestingly, I remember reading an an article in Australia where a lady was sunbathing topless in her garden while image got taken on Google maps and she won the case to have the image removed as far as I recall.
Street view does blur out faces and license plates from what I remember.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 00:48:49


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






That's where "reasonable expectation of privacy" comes into effect. Did you have a fence? Was it slatted or chain-linked? It comes up frequently in legal cases. Did you have the blinds drawn on your windows? That's a reasonable expectation of privacy. Were you posing nude in front of an open window on Main Street? That's...not a reasonable expectation, etc.

Drones blew this open because, while a fence used to be enough to argue an expectation of privacy...now neighbors (and in some places, law enforcement) can buzz over your house and argue that you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy from above because you didn't install...I dunno...camouflage netting in your back yard?

It's a constantly evolving legal precedent. But having your picture or pictures of your stuff taken in public? Zero ability to do anything about it unless you can argue profit was being made off your image. As bizarre as it seems, someone could just walk along and snap pictures of you on their phone - all day. That's essentially what paparazzi do. You have next to zero legal repercussions you can rely on.

 
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Halifax, Nova Scotia

In my experience, saying "I really like your painting/conversions/basing - can I take some pictures?" has always met with an enthusiastically positive response.

The only thing that might give me pause is if the person had a reputation for passing others' work off as their own.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Asmodai wrote:

The only thing that might give me pause is if the person had a reputation for passing others' work off as their own.


Honestly this is a really rare thing in general in the hobby. Sure its happened, but I'd wager the average gamer has nothing to worry about it at all.

Heck the only profit angle would be someone setting up a commissions website. The only reason they'd have to use others work for that would be because their own wasn't good enough, so that would get found out pretty fast. Wargaming is a niche hobby so whilst that has its downsides it also tends to mean that, within circles within it, information can travel fairly fast around it.

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Hamilton, ON

I had some random Belarussian ripping pics (of my piss-poor drybrushed minis, LMAO) from my Dakka plog and reposting them as their own.

It's why everything I put up now has a watermark.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress





Been my experience that people are cool to have photos of games/models taken and if.posted, credit where credit is due.
Its when those photos have people in them that it gets exey.

I've got a friend that is cool with his models being pictured which is cool because they're fantastic models, but he doesn't like being in the photos himself; so it a simple matter of letting him know when I want to take a snap of a particularly good model, or clash in the game for posterity and just take a second or two for him to step comfortable away from the scene.
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

I mean, asking permission seems like a common courtesy kind of thing. If they say they don’t want photos taken, it would be a simple matter of respect for another human being not to.

I’d say the odds of refusal are very small, such that if it was refused there is probably a good reason for that.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





I take pictures of the game sometimes, but make sure to not include my opponent in them.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in jp
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

I feel like it would be a pretty bizzare situation that someone you were already playing a game with - presumably you have some kind of social bond, no? - Seems kind of strange to suddenly get irate about them taking a couple of photos. Sure, you could probably argue, in the most pedantic way, that without your permission to photograph your models you are technically legally in the right, but I would hope that any court of any value would throw the case out for being the absolute peak of childishness.

Like, if the person taking the pictures is being a creep about it, and taking like "trying-to-be-subtle-creeper" shopts, then yes, that's objectionable, but how removed from social reality do two people have to be to be playing a board game with one another, and one to wordlessly produce a camera and start just taking pictures, and the other person, rather than say "I would prefer you didn't do that, for x unfathomable reason", consider how to take this person to court?

Utterly insane hypothetical.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, as someone who knows professional photographers, has worked with professional photographers, and is aquainted with photography as an art, most photographers, unless the subject is a model, or involved directly in a news story, don't think twice about taking a photo of something. There's a very real argument for "a photograph is only reflected and refracted light" and thus the contents of a photo are solely the property of the creator of the image. When we get into digital and mechanical reproduction, it gets even more abstract.
Whilst of course, this legally changes when the subject of the photo is portrayed in a way they find objectionable or incriminating, think of how many millions of people unwittingly have photos deliberately taken of them everyday. Think of how many buildings, artworks, sculptures, vehicles, products are included in photos. Miniatures aren't some sacred cow that can't ever be violated by photography. Proposing some kind of etiquette for photographing them is silly.

Is it reprehensible social ettiquette? Absolutely.
Is it poor photography ettiquette? Arguably not at all.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/04 04:27:03


   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Non question as the OP doesn’t paint their models anyway so there is nothing unique about them beyond what is in the GW catalogs.



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






So this has multiple factors. Laws, ethics, culture, location, personality type.

Different areas perceive photos differently. Here in UK photos a fully legal wherever in public spaces, restrictions only apply when intellectual property comes into play i.e. TM, films etc. Your painted models do not fall into that category. People are also free to take a picture and post. What they cannot do is use you or your products for advertising or for making money without consent.

As this is the culture we've grown up with it doesn't matter if Joe Johnson comes over to my gaming table and takes a picture. Sure whatever dude.

However in other places/cultures or environments that may not be perceived same way. For example if I am playing a game with my 8 year old son and again some photographer comes up and snaps a picture but also starts taking pictures of my son. Then I'm going to have issues.

Understandably this can change on culture/location.

5500
2500 
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Hamilton, ON

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
Here in UK photos a fully legal wherever in public spaces, restrictions only apply when intellectual property comes into play i.e. TM, films etc. Your painted models do not fall into that category. People are also free to take a picture and post. What they cannot do is use you or your products for advertising or for making money without consent.


Almost none of this is correct.

Wikipedia has a passable blurb for laypeople.

Taking a photograph of, for example, a building can, in fact, be a criminal offence.


The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




It mostly depends on who is playing. Make picture of my stuff, it doesn't matter. Try to take pictures of the army or the player, whose older brother is part of the local football club, good luck getting home with your phone intact.

Plus there is some specific laws about offending religion or the law that most police put you in the slamer far aka "offending the honor of the uniform". May not be a thing in other countries, but here a lot of people playing are in the military, police or border patrol. They aren't donkey-caves, but if they are riot control you can't make pictures of them or post them where they were, because they could get in trouble with their bosses.

And then there is imporant people in general. If I did half the stuff kids of the local town hall members, I would be in a correction facility 2-3 years ago.

In short it depends on who makes the picture and of whom.
Plus stuff like store games have a no picture policy, unless the store owner okeys it. And I understand him, if someone would start making pictures of how the store looks on monday after the sunday 18+ late night gaming, they could lose their license to have a shop.
   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






1. Ask permission.

2. Respect the answer regardless

3. Don't touch anything that doesn't belong to you

4. If snapping something previously unseen, ensure the angle is wonky and the focus is poor.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior




The smoke

Snap photos of my army all you like, but take any of me without asking and we will have issues.

2000
1500
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:1. Ask permission.

2. Respect the answer regardless

3. Don't touch anything that doesn't belong to you

4. If snapping something previously unseen, ensure the angle is wonky and the focus is poor.
Yup.

I'm probably "allowed" to take a picture of the army regardless, but nothing ever hurt by asking permission, and if they have a problem with it, why would you antagonise them?

So, my "legal" answer is different from my "practical" answer.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




There is lots that can be said about it, really. It’s always best to just ask. And be mindful of why they may answer in any way they do.

Laws can be vague in some instances and very strict in others, as well as changing with where you are.
And even if the laws are on your side you may still be burning bridges.
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Hamilton, ON

For sure, you'd have to be a proper [Expletive Deleted] to be TFG and make the other person uncomfortable because "iTs nOt iLLeGaL!!"

Some of the responses here do make me wonder, though. Like, what authority does a store/club that is open to the public have to tell you that you can't take photos inside it?

It isn't statutory and I seriously doubt it's contractual.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






I've never said no to somebody taking pictures of my army, but it is nice to ask. if somebody did just start taking them I would probably not care as long as they are not putting their greasy mitts on my models.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






 Excommunicatus wrote:
 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
Here in UK photos a fully legal wherever in public spaces, restrictions only apply when intellectual property comes into play i.e. TM, films etc. Your painted models do not fall into that category. People are also free to take a picture and post. What they cannot do is use you or your products for advertising or for making money without consent.


Almost none of this is correct.

Wikipedia has a passable blurb for laypeople.

Taking a photograph of, for example, a building can, in fact, be a criminal offence.



I did media and film as a degree. Trust me on this, we looked into it further than Wikipedia to make sure we obeyed the law for our projects.

5500
2500 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




South New Jersey

If its in the middle of the game, walk up and say, "This game looks great, would you mind if I took a picture?"

If it's a display game, or on display as part of a painting competition, then I'd assume pictures are fine at any point.

You can find plenty of people taking pictures of games at various conventions to show off all the cool setups and actions.

And I take plenty of pictures to post on my blog. After more than seven years of posting, I haven't had a single person ask me not to take pictures. We're in a hobby that puts significant importance on the spectacle of the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 14:44:30


   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Grimtuff wrote:
Non question as the OP doesn’t paint their models anyway so there is nothing unique about them beyond what is in the GW catalogs.


When did I ever say I don't paint my models?

I said the exact opposite to you at least twice in other threads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Excommunicatus wrote:
For sure, you'd have to be a proper [Expletive Deleted] to be TFG and make the other person uncomfortable because "iTs nOt iLLeGaL!!"

Some of the responses here do make me wonder, though. Like, what authority does a store/club that is open to the public have to tell you that you can't take photos inside it?

It isn't statutory and I seriously doubt it's contractual.


Stores are private property, and the owners can set reasonable rules, such as no photography (common in bars), no guns, no smoking, ect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 14:48:01


 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Gainesville, VA

 Excommunicatus wrote:
For sure, you'd have to be a proper [Expletive Deleted] to be TFG and make the other person uncomfortable because "iTs nOt iLLeGaL!!"

Some of the responses here do make me wonder, though. Like, what authority does a store/club that is open to the public have to tell you that you can't take photos inside it?

It isn't statutory and I seriously doubt it's contractual.


In the US if they post a sign that says no pictures, and you take a picture, you can be considered 'trespassing' and they can ask you to leave the property. If you refuse to leave, you can be arrested. I don't know if they can have the picture deleted or whatever, but any store, or other privately owned space can do the same thing.


While it's generally not required to ask permission in a public, or publicly accessible space with no reasonable expectation of privacy (such as a store), I certainly would do so if I wanted to take pictures of someone's models. It's really not hard to be courteous.
   
 
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