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Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Ok so I was a Thousand Sons player but I got tired of having to bring demon princes and ahriman (and at the time Tzaangors which im sure have gone down with the DS revisions). My favorite parts of the codex just didnt work which were Magnus, Rubrics and Exalted Sorcs. So, now that I have explained my departure I want to ask this. Has the new PA added anything to make the 1ksons more viable outside of the HQ? If so where about do they sit on the tier listings?

Also, I was recently gifted a Chaos Knights codex. I really like the looks of it and they seem to be (from what I knew of 8th a year ago) mid tier at least. What do you think the best bet would be going forward. Of course it would be much cheaper to come back to my 1ksons but The idea of a new army of knights seems nice to. Thank you in advance for dealing with my poor grammar and spelling.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Illinois

You need to ask yourself what you want out of the game and are the people you play with on the same page? All of those things you mentioned are objectively in a worse place power wise than they were a year ago.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Are you trying to be top tier competative? Then pure 1ksons are not the army for you. But the new PA did add some neat stuff. The army more or less plays how it did. Rubrics are slightly better now their main job is to protect your characters from getting shot. Magnus is ok. Most of the time he dies right away but the few games he doesn't he wrecks house. You will still need to bring daemon princes and Ahriman in 99% of your lists as they are still hands down the best unit in the dex.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 Kommisar wrote:
You need to ask yourself what you want out of the game and are the people you play with on the same page? All of those things you mentioned are objectively in a worse place power wise than they were a year ago.


Thanks for the reply! These are the things im looking for in order from highest to lowest : Coolness (subjective of course), how fun it is to paint/collect, power and social acceptance ( casuals tend not to like playing vs hardcore set ups). I guess im just looking for a mid tier army, one that can compete but not over the top. 1ksons ticks most of my qualifications except to get to the mid tier set up I found myself shelving half my collection in favor of auto includes. The knights seem to be more competitive and alot of people dont like playing vs them since most casual lists dont bring enough heavy FP to stop them, or so Ive seen at least.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Salt Mine wrote:
Are you trying to be top tier competative? Then pure 1ksons are not the army for you. But the new PA did add some neat stuff. The army more or less plays how it did. Rubrics are slightly better now their main job is to protect your characters from getting shot. Magnus is ok. Most of the time he dies right away but the few games he doesn't he wrecks house. You will still need to bring daemon princes and Ahriman in 99% of your lists as they are still hands down the best unit in the dex.


Thats terrible to hear. Im not a competitive player persay but like everyone I want to give myself the best chances to win in the lane I chose to play. Which is casualish shop games. Ive batted around the idea of a tournament but felt id be a bump in the road since i refuse to play FOTM top armies.

I am not new to 40k however and over the past 10 years ive played nothing but chaos (and a brief stint of necrons in 7th) so I am used to being in the eternal mid-low end of the power scale. I feel every chaos players needs to be comfortable with this fact. And I am. So what I mainly look at is diversity in play and internal codex balance. 1ksons suffered in both. Sad to see they still do. And for eyeing Chaos Knights...well who doesnt like a Knight model or two? The question I asked was two fold, and im sorry for not making it clearer. the first fold is have the 1ksons changed in any significant way with the introduction of PA and the second fold is if Chaos Knights are mid-tier in power level.


In a way I guess I was looking for the "heart" of the 1ksons (Rubrics and exalted/sorcs -- IMHO) to make a bit of a come back with PA.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/09 07:14:09


 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Illinois

If you bring magnus ahriman is basically mandatory to cast buffs on him. He's not bad if you can be cagey and play the pop out do mortal wounds and then warp time back game for the first couple of turns. My group uses a lot of terrain so a big model like that can at least be hidden from one angle and usually not get killed right away. There totally fine and playable in a casual setting.

As far as knights go they're so easy to move block and kill nowadays that they don't really warrant any complaint.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Holy Terra

You can build a list that doesn't have any Daemon Princes. The psykers in TS armies are pretty good anyways.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






I suggest you watch a few reviews of PA4 (Ritual of Ruin, was it?), take note of what TS got and decide for yourself.

It seems to me that the idea of the PA books is to to buff units that underperform in a codex, and without question a faction is improved through a PA book (if only marginally in some cases).

TS seemed to get some very good things in my opinion and there are a number of stratagems and abilities specifically designed to improve Rubrics (and Occult Termies) as you seem to want. Certainly in a casual game, they are improved.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





keep in mind when people say "pure 1k sons isn't still the most compeitive" thats not to say pure 1k sons isn't a solid choice, but that 1k sons simply don't have, like say... Space Marines, any rules that boost their power considerably, if run pure, so, mechanicly, there's no reason not to run 1ks sons alongside whatever chaos soup bits you choose.


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in sg
Been Around the Block






Seeing as you like using magnus and are fine with playing a casual list. Have you considered using Magnus plus some thousand sons stuff and add in a detachment of chaos knights. Like say 1 rampager along with 2 wardogs. That way you got some melee pushing up as you use magnus and your ts stuff to cover psychic and shooting.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Thats terrible to hear. Im not a competitive player persay but like everyone I want to give myself the best chances to win in the lane I chose to play. Which is casualish shop games. Ive batted around the idea of a tournament but felt id be a bump in the road since i refuse to play FOTM top armies.

I am not new to 40k however and over the past 10 years ive played nothing but chaos (and a brief stint of necrons in 7th) so I am used to being in the eternal mid-low end of the power scale. I feel every chaos players needs to be comfortable with this fact. And I am. So what I mainly look at is diversity in play and internal codex balance. 1ksons suffered in both. Sad to see they still do. And for eyeing Chaos Knights...well who doesnt like a Knight model or two? The question I asked was two fold, and im sorry for not making it clearer. the first fold is have the 1ksons changed in any significant way with the introduction of PA and the second fold is if Chaos Knights are mid-tier in power level.


In a way I guess I was looking for the "heart" of the 1ksons (Rubrics and exalted/sorcs -- IMHO) to make a bit of a come back with PA.


PA did not really change the way 1ksons play. Certain aspects of the army did get a bit better for sure. Rubrics are a solid choice now and worth considering over tzaangors. But the army still plays the same your characters are doing 99% of the work in the game and everything else in your list is pretty much just there to make it so the characters don't get shot off the board. Chaos Knights are an upper mid-tier army just because of the fact that they are so skewy. If people are not prepared to fight against a pure knights list they are going to have a bad time.

To be honest though Chaos as a whole is not in a bad spot. Its just GW seems to be pushing the Chaos soup route. My honest recommendation to you though would be if you like 1ksons models and knight models run them together. They compliment each other pretty well as 1ksons can bring the stuff to dislodge the things the knights can't get to and Chaos Knights bring a much needed shooting element to 1ksons.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Table wrote:
Ok so I was a Thousand Sons player but I got tired of having to bring demon princes and ahriman (and at the time Tzaangors which im sure have gone down with the DS revisions). My favorite parts of the codex just didnt work which were Magnus, Rubrics and Exalted Sorcs. So, now that I have explained my departure I want to ask this. Has the new PA added anything to make the 1ksons more viable outside of the HQ? If so where about do they sit on the tier listings?

Also, I was recently gifted a Chaos Knights codex. I really like the looks of it and they seem to be (from what I knew of 8th a year ago) mid tier at least. What do you think the best bet would be going forward. Of course it would be much cheaper to come back to my 1ksons but The idea of a new army of knights seems nice to. Thank you in advance for dealing with my poor grammar and spelling.


Hey - I would strongly urge you to listen to the podcast about Magnus piloted by TJ Lannigan.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ThousandSons/comments/dtg4qe/tizcan_tournaments_series_tj_lanigan_using_magnus/

Rubrics and sorcerers got a much needed boost with this book. If you look to compare everything to the most broken of marines you'll have a bad time, but the things you like are better.

   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Mono chaos of any variety is barely a solid mid-tier in a competitive sense.

The real power of the faction comes from soup and also seems like the way that GW wants you to play it given the stark differences in loyalist vs traitors


"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 1700 | 3600 | 2100 | 550

 
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

It's beyond dispute that GW wants everyone souping up and buying entire new armies.

Then next edition they'll squat soup and introduce something else for us all to chase.

Businesses like money. Shocking stuff.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts* painted (updated 11/01/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)
* as of Chapter Approved: 2018. Not a typo.

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Excommunicatus wrote:
It's beyond dispute that GW wants everyone souping up and buying entire new armies.

Then next edition they'll squat soup and introduce something else for us all to chase.

Businesses like money. Shocking stuff.


they won't squat soup, 8th edition was very carefully designed so that they didn't remove any army choices even ones designed along insane formations

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Excommunicatus wrote:
It's beyond dispute that GW wants everyone souping up and buying entire new armies.


Which is precisely why they introduced a mechanic for marines to avoid soup entirely?

The community wants soup. We get to use other armies without spending hundreds of dollars to make them work.

   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





PA and the various marine beta rule thingies helped Rubrics' playstyle a whole lot.

The new PA granted rubrics several really key, solid stratagems, namely:

-If you stand still, shoot twice for 1CP with a rubric unit. This combos nicely with the beta boltguns 'full range rapid fire if you stood still"

-Ignore a perils for 1CP. Nuff said here. it is also worth noting that rubrics were faq'ed so that the aspiring sorceror does not have to be the one to die when they peril, so they don't just auto-pop now.

-infiltrate a squad of rubrics for 1CP. Basically just put them where you want them during deployment, very handy and good for comboing with the shoot twice strat. Just don't get too crazy with it or your opponent will just charge you.

The new cult powers also help rubrics and other aspiring dudes a lot. Basically, you get a new power that you get in addition to all your other powers. It can only be cast once per turn like a normal power, but everyone's got it. So if you have for example the cult whose power is "Select a friendly infantry unit, they can fall back and act normally" you can just use that on any rubric/scarab squad that happens to get stuck in combat on any given turn. There's also another one that resurrects dead models in a squad via time-fuckery, and when I played with my rubric-heavy army I brought back nearly a full squad worth of rubrics over the course of the game.
   
 
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