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What do you guys think or want SW to get that would set them apart from other SM? I have now idea what I would want out of their unique tactical doctrine, but I would like to see stratagem support for TWC and Fenris Wolves. A stratagem that lets us skip to any Doctrine each turn would be cool too.

What should SW get in PA, hmmmmmm.

Less of the ridiculous Asgard stuff and more of an actual historical Viking theme? Y'know less Ragnarock more raiding villages and castles? (Ok planets and starforts).

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Less of the ridiculous Asgard stuff and more of an actual historical Viking theme? Y'know less Ragnarock more raiding villages and castles? (Ok planets and starforts).

Which is more likely?

(Helfrost. Wolf-santa-sleigh. "Murderfang".)

I'm assuming a new model and rules for Ragnar Blackmane, who will probably be their new Primaris character. I could see them revamping Sagas to some extent and maybe following a pack-system, rather than just following doctrines since out of all the loyalists (outside of deathwatch/grey knights and black templars which I'm not happy about with how they didn't get vows instead) they definitely are the most unorthodox in terms of deviating from the Codex Astartes so i could see them basing around that instead. Maybe a scouting pack mode at the beginning that increases their movement or charge/advance rolls, followed by hunting, etc.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Less of the ridiculous Asgard stuff and more of an actual historical Viking theme? Y'know less Ragnarock more raiding villages and castles? (Ok planets and starforts).

That's a cool Idea, A stratagem that lets units inside transports that have moved, still disembark and charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm assuming a new model and rules for Ragnar Blackmane, who will probably be their new Primaris character. I could see them revamping Sagas to some extent and maybe following a pack-system, rather than just following doctrines since out of all the loyalists (outside of deathwatch/grey knights and black templars which I'm not happy about with how they didn't get vows instead) they definitely are the most unorthodox in terms of deviating from the Codex Astartes so i could see them basing around that instead. Maybe a scouting pack mode at the beginning that increases their movement or charge/advance rolls, followed by hunting, etc.

Yeah I see Ragnar being more of a possibility then Russ. I expect with the new warlords traits we'll get a FAQ shortly after changing them lol. The idea of unique doctrines would be awesome!

Lupenwulf Wolf-Pelt Cloak of Fenrir McWolfenson

This wolf-furred cloak contains within it the trapped wolf-spirit of the great ice-wolf Rendfangnclaw. Once worn by the mighty Fenrir McWolfenson, strongest and wolfiest of the Space Wolves, this wolf-cloak confurs confers its wolf-power upon any Space Wolf who wears it, filling them with the might of the mighty wolf, Rendfangnclaw. Whilst wearing this wolf-cloak, bullets will glance harmlessly from the iron wolf-fur, as if cast aside in the fangs of an almighty wolf.

+1 Toughness.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Less of the ridiculous Asgard stuff and more of an actual historical Viking theme? Y'know less Ragnarock more raiding villages and castles? (Ok planets and starforts).

So, back to their original concept, then (no that I disagree - it's what got me into SW). Mostly less Wolfy Mc Wolf with Ice Fangs. That's what turned me off them and 40K in general. Well, that and the HH series.

 vipoid wrote:
Lupenwulf Wolf-Pelt Cloak of Fenrir McWolfenson

This wolf-furred cloak contains within it the trapped wolf-spirit of the great ice-wolf Rendfangnclaw. Once worn by the mighty Fenrir McWolfenson, strongest and wolfiest of the Space Wolves, this wolf-cloak confurs confers its wolf-power upon any Space Wolf who wears it, filling them with the might of the mighty wolf, Rendfangnclaw. Whilst wearing this wolf-cloak, bullets will glance harmlessly from the iron wolf-fur, as if cast aside in the fangs of an almighty wolf.

+1 Toughness.

I think you're onto something here!

I think it'd be neat to have a version of doctrines triggered by some event that causes the space wolves to get more berserk, and contains the ability for the wolves to swap to the close combat version of the doctrine more quickly by pulling off turn 1 charges.

Something like: The space wolves begin the game in Tracking stance. While Tracking, all units count as being in cover unless they Advanced or attempted a Charge move. Tracking is the first stage of the Hunt Meter.

At the end of the charge phase, the Space Wolf player may choose to escalate or de-escalate the hunt based on the number of successful charge moves made in the preceding phase.

0 successful charges: May remain in the same stage or de-escalate 1 stage. Cannot de-escalate if currently in Tracking stage.

1 successful charge: May escalate 1 stage. Cannot escalate beyond Berserk.

2+ successful charges: Must escalate 1 stage, may escalate 2 stages. Cannot escalate beyond Berserk.

Stage 2: Hunting. Space wolf units ignore the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons, and space wolf units may disembark from transports at the end of the movement phase (units that disembark in this way cannot move further until the charge phase.)

Stage 3: Lunging. Space wolf units may charge even if they advanced that turn. In addition, Rapid Fire weapons become Assault Weapons if the unit advances, (e.g. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Assault 1) and Assault weapons may be fired without penalty. Space wolf units with the BLOOD CLAWS, WULFEN and FENRISIAN WOLVES keywords may no longer fall back

Stage 3: Berserk. Space wolf units without the VEHICLE or LONG FANG keyword may no longer fall back.Space wolf units reroll 1s to wound in the fight phase, or add 1 to wound rolls if they would already reroll 1s to wound. Space wolf units reroll failed charge rolls, but must select the closest enemy unit as one of the targets of their charge rolls if there is at least one unit within 12".

A new psychic power Wolf Time, pick a model and roll a D3, on a 1 that model becomes a Fenris Wolf, 2 Thunder wolf, 3 Wulfen . Remember, there are no wolves on Fenris!

Jimbobbyish wrote:
A new psychic power Wolf Time, pick a model and roll a D3, on a 1 that model becomes a Fenris Wolf, 2 Thunder wolf, 3 Wulfen . Remember, there are no wolves on Fenris!

Oooh, can I cast it on an enemy model? 100% chance to turn Guilliman into something much smaller!

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Space Wolves in PA, What should they get?

An apology for this?

And anything else with the herpy derpy "magic ice" stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Space Wolves in PA, What should they get?

An apology for this?

And anything else with the herpy derpy "magic ice" stuff.

Remember, the british once thought building an aircraft carrier out of ice was a good idea

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm assuming a new model and rules for Ragnar Blackmane, who will probably be their new Primaris character. I could see them revamping Sagas to some extent and maybe following a pack-system, rather than just following doctrines since out of all the loyalists (outside of deathwatch/grey knights and black templars which I'm not happy about with how they didn't get vows instead) they definitely are the most unorthodox in terms of deviating from the Codex Astartes so i could see them basing around that instead. Maybe a scouting pack mode at the beginning that increases their movement or charge/advance rolls, followed by hunting, etc.

Given that Ghazskull is going to happen, probably for War of the Beast, I don't think we'll be getting any models.

But we'll probably get the better rules!

A good squattening.

My bets would be
- 40k rules for Haldor Icepelt.
- More strategems that the Wolves can’t afford.
- Points update to fix what Chapter Approved did to Fast Attack.
- More powerful melee but still no good way of getting in there.

I don't think the rules for their WL traits have been printed yet, I think they should be printed, but GW will and should be pelted for it if they do so they might as well not.

They should/will probably get a better chapter tactic like the BA did. Maybe they will get rules for their different companies. I think they are going to get another melee buff, but I hope they don't. Instead I think they should get a buff to their ranged abilities to avoid making the faction into a mono-build faction.

"The Space Wolves train their whole lives for the moment when battle is joined. After a long hunt tensed for the kill, they spring forward to devastating effect."

How to make this into something more than a melee buff I am not sure. Ignore casualties outside the Fight phase would be one idea, that also gets to their stubborn nature and would be a good buff against the shooty DA. It might also make a massive unit of 15 Blood Claws a lot better and anything that makes people not go MSU always all the time is pretty good in my book. Maybe they won't get anything as they already have the 6" Heroic Intervention, while BA relied purely on +1 to wound in the first round of combat, +1 to Charge seems heaps better than 6" Heroic Intervention though and ignoring casualties from shooting and psychic powers would be quite small.

Hunters Unleashed
The Space Wolves train their whole lives for the moment when battle is joined. After a long hunt tensed for the kill, they spring forward to devastating effect.
In any turn in which a unit with this ability made a charge move, was charged or made a Heroic Intervention, you can add 1 to its hit rolls in the Fight phase. In addition, units with this ability ignore casualties suffered outside the Fight phase for the purposes of morale. CHARACTERS with this ability can perform a Heroic Intervention if, after the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, there are any enemy units within 6" of them. They can move up to 6" when performing a Heroic Intervention, so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

Something random could make sense for the Space Wovles doctrines, like randomly determining from 3 or 6 "doctrines" at the start of each battle round. Alternatively, you could have 13 and add the turn number + the number of WULFEN/charging/friendly destroyed/enemy destroyed units to determine the effect.

Oaths of War
To the Space Wolves a man's word is everything, their steely resolve blablabla... Oaths of war!
Models in this unit gain a bonus depending on which Oath of War is active for your army (see below). If you have a Battle-forged army, units only benefit from this bonus if every unit from your army has this ability (excluding SERVITOR, BEAST and UNALIGNED units).

Determine which Oath of War is active at the start of each battle round by adding the current turn number to the number of your units that completed a charge and/or Heroic Intervention in the battle round turn (if a unit both charged and Heroically Intervened count it only once). If you control a WOLF PRIEST on the table at the start of the battle round you may add or subtract 1 from the result.

I hope we get some wild wolfy wolf rules, that wolf up the wolves to 11.

Seriously I just hope most of our stuff triggers in tactical and we aren't just another total focus on CC but instead a more tactical group that has some good swing in CC and with characters as fits their theme.

A swift transfer to legends, now that we have SW Primaris without the wolfywolf baggage.

Take the wolfen and the beer swilling regulars and bring them around the other side of the Fang to be put down.

 =Angel= wrote:
A swift transfer to legends, now that we have SW Primaris without the wolfywolf baggage.

Take the wolfen and the beer swilling regulars and bring them around the other side of the Fang to be put down.

Rather see WOLFWOLF MC DRUNK, then Primaris.

well on doctrine ability I'd love to see something like the ability to charge after having advanced while in assault doctrine.

Only thing I want is more mobility so I can actually reach CC.

Mobility is cool, and I'd like that as well. Though I think I'd like their stuff to be mobile and tactical as opposed to an outright buff to combat ability in CC.

I fear though their doctrine will end up being very bland and just a buff from what they get currently with no real nods to either of those issues but maybe a couple nice warlord traits, better relics ( which isn't hard as some are really crap currently ) and strats to give a better nod to some of the unused units.

I mean even just getting the doctrines is great, but I want them to feel cool and meaningful without just being a super ramp of power that actually makes them scary though.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
A swift transfer to legends, now that we have SW Primaris without the wolfywolf baggage.

Take the wolfen and the beer swilling regulars and bring them around the other side of the Fang to be put down.

Rather see WOLFWOLF MC DRUNK, then Primaris.

Gotta agree with that.
Primaris are dull.

The problem with more melee buffs is that it takes a CC-orientated faction and makes them completely mono-build. This is a problem with Blood Angels post PA3. While they definitely got a power boost, it was almost exclusively to melee units. I suspect Wolves may be inline for something similar.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Mobility is cool, and I'd like that as well. Though I think I'd like their stuff to be mobile and tactical as opposed to an outright buff to combat ability in CC.

I fear though their doctrine will end up being very bland and just a buff from what they get currently with no real nods to either of those issues but maybe a couple nice warlord traits, better relics ( which isn't hard as some are really crap currently ) and strats to give a better nod to some of the unused units.

I mean even just getting the doctrines is great, but I want them to feel cool and meaningful without just being a super ramp of power that actually makes them scary though.

Wolves are strong enough in CC already. Only unit whose flat damage output I'd like to see upped is TWC. Those guys just fail on all fronts at the moment. Maybe it would be a cool idea to have their super doctrine actually be the Tactical doctrine and have it focus on mobility and swiftly moving as a pack of several units together.

Maybe something like this:

- When in Tactical Doctrine get +1 to movement statistic and advance rolls when a unit is within 6" of another unit at the start of the movement phase. If, at the end of the movement phase, a unit is within 6" of another unit and that unit has also advanced in the movement phase, the profile of any shooting weapons except Grenades is considered to be Assault (e.g. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Assault 1, Heavy D6 becomes Assault D6 etc.). Normal penalties for shooting Assault weapons after advancing still apply.

Not sure whether the numbers are balanced but you get the general idea. It would allow not only for more mobile infantry but also for very mobile yet still dangerous Razorbacks, Repulsors (the vanilla one, not the executioner) and Dreadnoughts.

Also thought of a stratagem for TWC:

- Devastating Charge [2CP]: Use in the Charge phase after declaring a charge with a unit of TWC. Roll 3D6 instead of 2D6 to determine the charge distance. If the charge is successful, every model in the selected unit gains +1A for both the rider and thunderwolf profiles (so you get 4 additional attacks with the wolf mount instead of 3) in the subsequent Fight phase.

Might seem extremely strong for 2 CP but considering the rather pitiful state TWC are in at the moment I feel it is justified. That or give the Thunderwolf rider +1A baseline to represent them being the elite of the already elite Wolf Guard and make the stratagem just a 3D6 charge for 2CP.

edit: Another stratagem:

- Eager Hunters [3CP]: Use at the start of the first battle round. You start in Tactical Doctrine instead of Devastator Doctrine.

For when you left your battle tanks at home and want to rush in with Razorbacks, Dreads and footslogging infantry.

If Primaris are an opportunity to rein back the excesses of chapter specific landspeeders and flyers and sleds and close combat weapons and frost guns then lets do that. Pull the trigger already.
We can still have chapter upgrade kits and the lore can be different. You can call your reivers blood claw squads.

Which is more likely?

(Helfrost. Wolf-santa-sleigh. "Murderfang".)

An apology for this?

And anything else with the herpy derpy "magic ice" stuff.

A new psychic power Wolf Time, pick a model and roll a D3, on a 1 that model becomes a Fenris Wolf, 2 Thunder wolf, 3 Wulfen . Remember, there are no wolves on Fenris!

I think most Space Wolves players agree, more Viking, less Wolf. Sadly GW has a lack of actual creativity most of the time and so takes they few ideas and turns them to 111.

Lupenwulf Wolf-Pelt Cloak of Fenrir McWolfenson

This wolf-furred cloak contains within it the trapped wolf-spirit of the great ice-wolf Rendfangnclaw. Once worn by the mighty Fenrir McWolfenson, strongest and wolfiest of the Space Wolves, this wolf-cloak confurs confers its wolf-power upon any Space Wolf who wears it, filling them with the might of the mighty wolf, Rendfangnclaw. Whilst wearing this wolf-cloak, bullets will glance harmlessly from the iron wolf-fur, as if cast aside in the fangs of an almighty wolf.

+1 Toughness.

This was left out of a Matt Ward codex by mistake eh?

Justyn wrote:

Which is more likely?

(Helfrost. Wolf-santa-sleigh. "Murderfang".)

An apology for this?

And anything else with the herpy derpy "magic ice" stuff.

A new psychic power Wolf Time, pick a model and roll a D3, on a 1 that model becomes a Fenris Wolf, 2 Thunder wolf, 3 Wulfen . Remember, there are no wolves on Fenris!

I think most Space Wolves players agree, more Viking, less Wolf. Sadly GW has a lack of actual creativity most of the time and so takes they few ideas and turns them to 111.

Lupenwulf Wolf-Pelt Cloak of Fenrir McWolfenson

This wolf-furred cloak contains within it the trapped wolf-spirit of the great ice-wolf Rendfangnclaw. Once worn by the mighty Fenrir McWolfenson, strongest and wolfiest of the Space Wolves, this wolf-cloak confurs confers its wolf-power upon any Space Wolf who wears it, filling them with the might of the mighty wolf, Rendfangnclaw. Whilst wearing this wolf-cloak, bullets will glance harmlessly from the iron wolf-fur, as if cast aside in the fangs of an almighty wolf.

+1 Toughness.

This was left out of a Matt Ward codex by mistake eh?

The problem with abusing GWs creativity on the naming is better names already exist in the Black Library, just makes it sting all the more when the codex gets the crappy versions.