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Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




2 questions:

1) If a unit is currently -1 to hit (either through a buff on the shot-at unit or a debuff on the shooting unit), do Tesla weapons shot in overwatch versus this unit still cause 3x hits on rolls of a 6?
2) If a unit equipped with Tesla weapons currently has +1 to hit (via MWBD) and targets a unit (with no negative to hit modifiers active) in overwatch, do hit rolls of 5 cause 2 hits from Tesla (and obviously none from th actual hit, because unmodified 6s)?

Comes up a lot, and we don't know

Thanks, Bort
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

bort123 wrote:
2 questions:

1) If a unit is currently -1 to hit (either through a buff on the shot-at unit or a debuff on the shooting unit), do Tesla weapons shot in overwatch versus this unit still cause 3x hits on rolls of a 6?
2) If a unit equipped with Tesla weapons currently has +1 to hit (via MWBD) and targets a unit (with no negative to hit modifiers active) in overwatch, do hit rolls of 5 cause 2 hits from Tesla (and obviously none from th actual hit, because unmodified 6s)?

Comes up a lot, and we don't know

Thanks, Bort


For #2.

A 5 is not a hit when firing Overwatch, so Tesla can not score any hits instead of 1, as a 5 does not score a hit. (All of the Tesla (Cannon, Carbine, Destructor, and Sphere) cause 3 hits instead of 1 for each roll of a 6+. I am not sure where you got 2 from).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/12 13:12:54


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 DeathReaper wrote:
bort123 wrote:
2 questions:

1) If a unit is currently -1 to hit (either through a buff on the shot-at unit or a debuff on the shooting unit), do Tesla weapons shot in overwatch versus this unit still cause 3x hits on rolls of a 6?
2) If a unit equipped with Tesla weapons currently has +1 to hit (via MWBD) and targets a unit (with no negative to hit modifiers active) in overwatch, do hit rolls of 5 cause 2 hits from Tesla (and obviously none from th actual hit, because unmodified 6s)?

Comes up a lot, and we don't know

Thanks, Bort


For #2.

A 5 is not a hit when firing Overwatch, so Tesla can not score any hits instead of 1, as a 5 does not score a hit. (All of the Tesla (Cannon, Carbine, Destructor, and Sphere) cause 3 hits instead of 1 for each roll of a 6+. I am not sure where you got 2 from).


If I remember correctly, the rule states that a "hit roll of 6+ scores 2 additional hits". It does not limit this to "if it hits", it just states 2 additional hits, and a 5 with MWBD is a modified 6+, even in overwatch...
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

bort123 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the rule states that a "hit roll of 6+ scores 2 additional hits". It does not limit this to "if it hits", it just states 2 additional hits, and a 5 with MWBD is a modified 6+, even in overwatch...

You do not remember correctly.

The "abilities" for the Tesla weapons say:
Necron codex page 104 wrote:Each roll of 6+ with this weapon causes 3 hits instead of 1


So if you do not hit you can not have 3 hits instead of 1.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Jackson, TN

Premise: Overwatch hits on a Natural 6 on the Die no matter the modifiers. Abilities do care about modifiers, and trigger accordingly.

When the unit has a -1 to hit, Tesla WILL NOT trigger, but you still "Hit" on a 6, that natural 6 is modified to a 5 so it is impossible to score extra hits from a single roll. That shot still hits, but it's just 1 hit.

This is supported by the fact that "overcharged" weapons that cause a Mortal wound/Slain effect on a 1 still trigger if you roll a 1 or a 2 when a -1 to hit is in effect

If they have the MWBD +1 to hit, the natural 6 becomes a 7, so that is both a hit and you trigger the extra hits. A natural 5 is a miss, but the modifier takes it to a 6 so the special rule triggers. BUT the wording of Tesla isn't "2 extra hits", it is "3 hits INSTEAD of 1". If you aren't causing a hit, you can't then replace it with 3.

This is supported by an answer in the FAQ for Harlequins's and the Riddle-smiths Masque Form.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






This has been debated to death before. For what it's worth I think tesla does activate (by the same reasoning a -1 to hit on overwatch will cause plasma to overheat on a 2 and a +1 will still prevent it from overheating) and faq affrims you can replace things tha t can't happen.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/12 15:09:27


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Made in fr
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot






I am on the boat it will activate as the hits themselves are natural 6's regardless of modifiers, abilities are still affected.

Plasma's still overheat on 1's, 1's and 2's if there is a -1 hit modifier. So here the 1 hit becomes 3 happens on a 5. only issue is the 3 needs a 1 to come from.

So essentially end result is 0*3=0.

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Norn Queen






 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
I am on the boat it will activate as the hits themselves are natural 6's regardless of modifiers, abilities are still affected.

Plasma's still overheat on 1's, 1's and 2's if there is a -1 hit modifier. So here the 1 hit becomes 3 happens on a 5. only issue is the 3 needs a 1 to come from.

So essentially end result is 0*3=0.
It doesn't need one to come from because GW faqed that impossible replacements are possible.

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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

You cant score 3 hits instead of 1 when you dont hit. Overwatch only hits when you roll a natural 6. If you have -1 to hit, you will hit, but tesla will not trigger.
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
I am on the boat it will activate as the hits themselves are natural 6's regardless of modifiers, abilities are still affected.

Plasma's still overheat on 1's, 1's and 2's if there is a -1 hit modifier. So here the 1 hit becomes 3 happens on a 5. only issue is the 3 needs a 1 to come from.

So essentially end result is 0*3=0.
It doesn't need one to come from because GW faqed that impossible replacements are possible.


Are you still misrepresenting that? That FAQ said that a unit could could take an instead of action like Advancing and firing smoke launchers, not that you can omit the requirement for something to hit to trigger a rule.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Norn Queen






 JohnnyHell wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
I am on the boat it will activate as the hits themselves are natural 6's regardless of modifiers, abilities are still affected.

Plasma's still overheat on 1's, 1's and 2's if there is a -1 hit modifier. So here the 1 hit becomes 3 happens on a 5. only issue is the 3 needs a 1 to come from.

So essentially end result is 0*3=0.
It doesn't need one to come from because GW faqed that impossible replacements are possible.


Are you still misrepresenting that? That FAQ said that a unit could could take an instead of action like Advancing and firing smoke launchers, not that you can omit the requirement for something to hit to trigger a rule.
Nothing in the Tesla rule requires the 6+ to hit to actually hit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/12 21:11:31


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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
Nothing in the Tesla rule requires the 6+ to hit to actually hit.
Other than saying it's 3 hits instead of 1, and you don't have the first hit to have 3 instead of. You need to provide a FAQ question where you can get additional hits "instead of one hit" if you don't have the one hit in the first place. Claiming you can pop smoke instead of moving even if you can't move is not an equivalent situation to stretch out of shape to try to make it apply to this.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/12 22:15:05


 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Jackson, TN

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
I am on the boat it will activate as the hits themselves are natural 6's regardless of modifiers, abilities are still affected.

Plasma's still overheat on 1's, 1's and 2's if there is a -1 hit modifier. So here the 1 hit becomes 3 happens on a 5. only issue is the 3 needs a 1 to come from.

So essentially end result is 0*3=0.
It doesn't need one to come from because GW faqed that impossible replacements are possible.


Are you still misrepresenting that? That FAQ said that a unit could could take an instead of action like Advancing and firing smoke launchers, not that you can omit the requirement for something to hit to trigger a rule.
Nothing in the Tesla rule requires the 6+ to hit to actually hit.


Based on this Q&A from the Harlequins' FAQ:

"Q: How does the Riddle-smiths Masque Form interact with abilities that generate additional attacks or score additional hits?
A: If a unit has an ability that generates extra attacks on a roll that exactly matches the result of a Riddle-smiths roll, the extra attack is generated. Note that the original attack still misses, and if the hit roll for the extra attack also matches the result of the Riddle-smiths roll, it also misses. Likewise, if a weapon has an ability that scores additional hits on a roll that exactly matches the result of a Riddle-smiths roll, it would score those additional hits, but they’d all miss."

When a +1 modifier is applied to Tesla on Overwatch: A Natural 5 is a miss of the Overwatch Shot. Since the ability still needs to be resolved and that Natural 5 becomes a Modified 6, triggering the "3 hits instead of 1" but since the 1 Hit Missed, the modified 3 hits also miss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/13 00:52:19


 
   
 
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