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Made in us
Flower Picking Eldar Youth




I apologize if this is in the wrong thread. I'm trying to build a Ynnari list but am new to them and have a question. Can a detachment have mixed versions of Aeldari (drukhari and craftworld in a battalion) as they are going under the Ynnari banner, or does each detachment have to have an individual style of Aeldari? Thanks for the help, and again if this is in the wrong section I apologize and mods please move it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/15 11:02:36


 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

Each unit must have both ynnari and another keyword like craftworld in the detachment to benefit from the rules.

You can mix but if you do you lose all benifits.

Plus each detachment needs a named ynnari to lead it.

Goes completely against the fluff, and it's one of the reasons why the army is so bad.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




So if I understand you correctly then if I had the Visarch, Dire Avengers, Kabalites and Harlequins in a single detachment then they'd get SFD but lose battle focus, power from pain and rising crescendo.
But if I had an army made with a detachment of the Visarch and Dire Avengers, another with Yvraine and the Kabalites and a third with the Avatar with some Harlequins then these detachments would have both SFD and their respective faction abilities.

Is that right?

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

I'm afraid you're not allowed to mix the different Eldar races in the same detachment.

So if you want to do Eldar and Dark Eldar as Ynnari, you'll have to have an Eldar detachment (including a Ynnari special character) and then a separate Dark Eldar detachment (including another Ynnari special character). If you want to add Harlequins, then that would require a third detachment (along with a final Ynnari special character).

The one thing you can do with Ynnari is mix Kabal and Cult units in the same detachment without either losing the Ynnari bonuses. A Ynnari Archon's aura will affect Cult units as well as Kabal, and the same applies to the Succubus' aura.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

There is nothing that will ever cause you to lose the special rules Battle Focus, Power From Pain and Rising Crescendo, that was the pre nerf Ynnari rules.

In short all units in a detachment must have at least 1 faction keyword in common. A new rules was added in early in the edition that this does not include the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari and Ynnari. So all units in a detachment must have the Asuryani, Drukhari or Harlequins keyword, though the 3 Yannari characters have a special rule specifically to get around this.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Imateria wrote:
There is nothing that will ever cause you to lose the special rules Battle Focus, Power From Pain and Rising Crescendo, that was the pre nerf Ynnari rules.

In short all units in a detachment must have at least 1 faction keyword in common. A new rules was added in early in the edition that this does not include the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari and Ynnari. So all units in a detachment must have the Asuryani, Drukhari or Harlequins keyword, though the 3 Yannari characters have a special rule specifically to get around this.

I get it now, thanks. But I can't help but notice that seems moronic and counter to one of the key elements of the Ynnari lore.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




It's very obnoxious. The Ynarri characters really should've acted like how the Inquisition does in terms of detachments and benefits.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

pm713 wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
There is nothing that will ever cause you to lose the special rules Battle Focus, Power From Pain and Rising Crescendo, that was the pre nerf Ynnari rules.

In short all units in a detachment must have at least 1 faction keyword in common. A new rules was added in early in the edition that this does not include the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari and Ynnari. So all units in a detachment must have the Asuryani, Drukhari or Harlequins keyword, though the 3 Yannari characters have a special rule specifically to get around this.

I get it now, thanks. But I can't help but notice that seems moronic and counter to one of the key elements of the Ynnari lore.


Yes but GW is lazy and can't be bothered doing anything but the absolute bare minimum for non-Space Marine factions.

To be honest though, the thing I find most irritating is the requirement for one of the Ynnari special characters in every detachment in order for it to be Ynnari.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 vipoid wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
There is nothing that will ever cause you to lose the special rules Battle Focus, Power From Pain and Rising Crescendo, that was the pre nerf Ynnari rules.

In short all units in a detachment must have at least 1 faction keyword in common. A new rules was added in early in the edition that this does not include the keywords Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari and Ynnari. So all units in a detachment must have the Asuryani, Drukhari or Harlequins keyword, though the 3 Yannari characters have a special rule specifically to get around this.

I get it now, thanks. But I can't help but notice that seems moronic and counter to one of the key elements of the Ynnari lore.


Yes but GW is lazy and can't be bothered doing anything but the absolute bare minimum for non-Space Marine factions.

To be honest though, the thing I find most irritating is the requirement for one of the Ynnari special characters in every detachment in order for it to be Ynnari.

That's less than the minimum, that's going out of their way to make Ynnari worse IMO.

The only reason for that I can think of is that Ynnari are a tiny faction in terms of their actual military numbers so GW reasoned they'd always have at least one person around.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

pm713 wrote:

That's less than the minimum, that's going out of their way to make Ynnari worse IMO.


True but I was referring more to the fact that GW never bothered giving Ynnari their own codex, so instead they still have to pilfer units from 3 other factions (without anything to get around the normal faction restrictions for individual detachments).

Honestly, I just find the current Ynnari rules an absolute mess.

I like some of the Relics and Warlord Traits but Strength from Death is a terrible rule, the spell lore isn't great, and they don't have a single movement spell or stratagem. What's more, they're basically locked into being a melee army... yet their rules and abilities are so bad that they end up being worse at melee than if you just ran their component factions normally (in addition to being worse at everything else).

I like aspects of Ynnari but it really does seem like GW went out of their way to make them awful.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




They just need to treat the ynnari stuff as a super doctrine that overrides the codex origin rules.

Anything with ynnari is considered the same army. It loses all its host rules (yes including power through pain etc) and gains a set of ynnari specific rules which are more detailed than they currently are.

They should all become one force with three codexes to choose from. Any combination should be a detachment.

The ynnari special rule should replace all that baggage - no advance and shoot, no scared of slannesh etc.

It shouldn't be that hard. And it should be possible to just take a HQ from and army as a ynnari warlord that isn't the 3 special characters. The army shouldnt need to have them at all
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

vipoid wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Imateria wrote:


To be honest though, the thing I find most irritating is the requirement for one of the Ynnari special characters in every detachment in order for it to be Ynnari.
Why do you think there are only 3 of them, it's like they planned it or something.

Hellebore wrote:They just need to treat the ynnari stuff as a super doctrine that overrides the codex origin rules.

Anything with ynnari is considered the same army. It loses all its host rules (yes including power through pain etc) and gains a set of ynnari specific rules which are more detailed than they currently are.

They should all become one force with three codexes to choose from. Any combination should be a detachment.

The ynnari special rule should replace all that baggage - no advance and shoot, no scared of slannesh etc.

It shouldn't be that hard. And it should be possible to just take a HQ from and army as a ynnari warlord that isn't the 3 special characters. The army shouldnt need to have them at all


Hellebore- totally agree
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






Where does it state that ynnari exarchs would loose their powers? They loose craftworldstraits, acess to strats and psychic powers which they cant be affected by, but I cant see anything that says exarchs would loose their powers.

That would mean a unit of DA wouldn't even get battle fortune which is what they come with stock prior to PR and was simply its ability..

Now that ynnari have been thrown on the trash fire and are no longer the stupidity OPness that we saw Im actually warming up to the idea of using them. I like the challenge of finding hidden gems. So Im sort of looking at wraithy builds...(the god of the dead and all..)

However, their restrictions are ridiculous.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Given how skimpy the Harles are, GW could put the Ynnari rules in Codex: Harlequins.

The Triumvirate would then have a proper home and some substaintial units to field, and as a bonus for the straight( non-Ynnari ) Harlequin player, three new character models to accompany(keyword!) their force( the Triumvirate could have special alternative rules in this case ).

Have mix'n'match unit detachments, but must take a Shadowseer, or member of the triumvirate, as one HQ choice.

Oh, and Kill Team would be an great way to gain new Ynnari players; A Troupe Player or Harle commander character would be a leader requirement, and maybe the following traits...

Rune of Ynnead
Feigned retreat
Fire and fade
Matchless ability
Mirthless hatred.

...which are either already common across all three factions, or at least fit in with Ynnead or bashing Slaanesh.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

SamusDrake wrote:
Given how skimpy the Harles are, GW could put the Ynnari rules in Codex: Harlequins.

The Triumvirate would then have a proper home and some substaintial units to field, and as a bonus for the straight( non-Ynnari ) Harlequin player, three new character models to accompany(keyword!) their force( the Triumvirate could have special alternative rules in this case ).

Have mix'n'match unit detachments, but must take a Shadowseer, or member of the triumvirate, as one HQ choice.


I'd be fine with that. Wish Phoenix Rising had taken that opportunity, tbh.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 vipoid wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Given how skimpy the Harles are, GW could put the Ynnari rules in Codex: Harlequins.

The Triumvirate would then have a proper home and some substaintial units to field, and as a bonus for the straight( non-Ynnari ) Harlequin player, three new character models to accompany(keyword!) their force( the Triumvirate could have special alternative rules in this case ).

Have mix'n'match unit detachments, but must take a Shadowseer, or member of the triumvirate, as one HQ choice.


I'd be fine with that. Wish Phoenix Rising had taken that opportunity, tbh.


You'd really have to realign the codex first but I don't see a problem with that.

The Harlequins already worship and have devoted their souls to cegorach, so making them the foot troops of the ynnari is nonsensical. Any Harlequin that converts to the ynnari is basically an apostate.

If it was the 'aeldsri god forces' or whatever, that would make sense as it would be two distinct types of force under one name.


   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I think the Ynarri range will grow over time; I think GW is experimenting with evolving an army from a small alt list via campaign play. I believe it as strongly as I believe there are good things coming for both Eldar and DE.

The army as it exists is pretty weak- you just lose too much and don't gain enough.

This thread has thrown me into doubt about exactly what is lost. By "Detachment Abilities" I think they mean "Obsessions/ Craftworld/ Masqueform rules. I had assumed that when they stopped being Drukhari/ Craftworld/ Harlequin that they would lose the Power from Pain, etc.

With Eldar, lines blur between faction and race.

What I will say, is that I think that some of the pre-game strats can help the army feel more like a real thing. I like using exalted of Ynead to grant a reborn warlord a Ynnead WL trait.

I like Artefacts of death to gift Reborn HQ units something else to make them "feel" more Ynarri. Units like Incubi or Aspect Warriors are good to include because they don't normally benefit from craftworld traits or drukari obsessions, which means they have less to lose by becoming Ynarri. There's even a strat that grant Stength from Death to up to 3 Incubi units.

Incubi are pretty sweet now that lethal precision applies to the whole unit. 31 dice- 33 if you go demi-klaives [on a full squad of 10]. For every 6 you roll, you deal 3 damage. First Strike and +1 to hit on those shots through strength from death is pretty cool too.

It does kinda suck that you can't take CWE and DE units in the same Ynarri detachment. If you're fielding two detachments, putting all your CWE units in one and DE units in the other still allows the units to fight together. I can still use Banshees to lock up an enemy units so the Incubi can close the distance, I can still do that.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






I can only comment from CWE perspective.

I'm playing a game this Friday testing out battalion with storm guardians or supreme command using Wraithseers with reborn and The sroud relic. Granting both a 5+++ as well as half damage to one and probably using the snare for a d3 regen.

The downside is you loose any access to CWE strats, psychic powers or abilities/traits. Expert crafters is phenomenal army buff especially for wraithseers/ wraithlords with few shots/attacks. Cant use bonesingers, or any strats until specific such as Celestial shield.

Ynnari does offer some benefit for CC but its a far cry from what CWE gives me. Really interested to see how yvraine plays and what the wraithseers can do with increase in survivability.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/19 03:08:48


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

PenitentJake wrote:
I think the Ynarri range will grow over time; I think GW is experimenting with evolving an army from a small alt list via campaign play. I believe it as strongly as I believe there are good things coming for both Eldar and DE.


Believe what you want.

At this point I'm convinced that if DE ever do see a light at the end of the tunnel, it will turn out to be an oncoming train.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior




The smoke

 vipoid wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
I think the Ynarri range will grow over time; I think GW is experimenting with evolving an army from a small alt list via campaign play. I believe it as strongly as I believe there are good things coming for both Eldar and DE.


Believe what you want.

At this point I'm convinced that if DE ever do see a light at the end of the tunnel, it will turn out to be an oncoming train.


As long as the train was being driven by a plastic Mandrake, I wouldn't mind.

2000
1500
 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 harlokin wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
I think the Ynarri range will grow over time; I think GW is experimenting with evolving an army from a small alt list via campaign play. I believe it as strongly as I believe there are good things coming for both Eldar and DE.


Believe what you want.

At this point I'm convinced that if DE ever do see a light at the end of the tunnel, it will turn out to be an oncoming train.


As long as the train was being driven by a plastic Mandrake, I wouldn't mind.


Touche.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
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