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Made in us
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper




Cadia Prime

So with the drop of ritual of the damned I've decided to go back to my dark angels. I was wondering other than the bolt rifle and 2 wounds per model why the intercessors are a better choice. It just seems like the 170 points it costs to buy a single squad of ini's could be better put toward a multi function tac squad with points left over for something else.

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3500 points
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





More potential, but less durable. You'll have to play games and weight it out for yourself, because I don't think there is a universal truth despite what others might say. The factors also depend on your Chapter.

   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







I don't usually see 10-man Intercessor blocks; they're better taken as 5 that can run about and hold objectives while taking more effort to get rid of than a 5-man cheap Tactical squad.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

I run both in my Salamanders lists. Tacs are for hauling ass up the board while Intercessors are to control the mid.

A 10 marine Squad w special & heavy vs. a 10 Intercessor squad is a study in compromising.

Firstborn have the versatility, "cheap" transports & many options.
Primaris have double wounds & attacks but lack in the squad level support(which Hellblasters fill but are expensive as feth & take up a heavy slot).

Most of the time my Primaris are targeted first, leaving my Tacs "free" to do what I want them to do. Not sure how well they interact in a DA list, but for me I will continue to use both for the foreseeable future.

Long live the Firstborn!
   
Made in ca
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper






Intercessors can also eat a lot of firepower with the Transhuman Physiology Stratagem, and the threat of a 10-strong unit with Rapid Fire strat is usually a threat that'll draw a lot of shots to them.

Making the enemy's overcharged plasma, and anything else they throw at the Intercessors only wound on a 4+ or worse is a handy tool.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies
 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





First off, a lot of the time Stalker or Auto bolt Rifles are better than the basic ones now. So compare to those.

A 5 man Intercessor squad has double the wounds of a Tac squad.

Their guns do a lot more. Auto bolt rifles fire 3 shots to 24", and are Assault to boot meaning they can run and gun. Tacs only get 2 shots to that range if stationary, 1 if they move, none if they run. That's a huge difference. Stalkers are -2 ap and 2 damage up to 36". That is a lot better than Tacs against other marines.

Basically you get a LOT for the extra points, and it's well worth it.
   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






There's a video called 'Tactical Squad vs Intercessors' here if it's useful (came out this week)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtSD62vFZwE

Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Racerguy180 wrote:
I run both in my Salamanders lists. Tacs are for hauling ass up the board while Intercessors are to control the mid.

A 10 marine Squad w special & heavy vs. a 10 Intercessor squad is a study in compromising.

Firstborn have the versatility, "cheap" transports & many options.
Primaris have double wounds & attacks but lack in the squad level support(which Hellblasters fill but are expensive as feth & take up a heavy slot).

Most of the time my Primaris are targeted first, leaving my Tacs "free" to do what I want them to do. Not sure how well they interact in a DA list, but for me I will continue to use both for the foreseeable future.

Long live the Firstborn!


This too - why not both?

   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Interestingly, Tacticals fare better against harder/more elite targets, while Intercessors are better against lighter ones. One Lascannon against a vehicle is worth 10 Bolt Rifle rounds. Double Plasma Tacs fare better against elite infantry than Bolt Rifles, etc.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Intercessors are phenomenal for Dark Angels.
Squads of 5 with the heavy rifle firing 5 S4 ap-3 d2 shoots rerolling ones natively at 42" in devastator doctrine, camping objetives or the backline? You can't ask for a better troop. if they can be in cover too, they are a giant annoyance for any kind of opponent.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Another point to consider is apparent durability vs actual durability. Primaris seem more durable then marines because of that extra wound, but for the most part (at least where I play) the weapons that kill marines have at least 2D meaning that they won't differentiate between Firstborn or Primaris. I'm generally not too concerned with small arms that do 1D either. The part were Primaris really do pull ahead in durability, is against mortal wounds. So if you facing a list that just pumps out mortal wounds like grey knights, the primaris especially with a litany of faith chaplain would probably be the better pick in terms of durability
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





That's true, theres a lot of D2 weaponry. But you arent paying anywhere near double for the extra wound. And there's also armies that spam a fair bit of D1 weaponry too. So its still a pretty good deal.
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




Running Ultramarines means both can see certain uses. A max Intercessor Squad will have potentially 36" threat range with 40 shots of S4 AP-2, it is a deadly threat to most infantry and light to mid vehicles (i.e. toughness less than 8 ans Sv3+). Meanwhile, Tac Squad can be cheap troops with 5men, 1 heavy weapon and stormbolter on Sgt, cost range from 72pts to 84pts, which is nice as well.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Intercessorers their bonus is 2 wounds, bolt weapons are better and better base CC with 2 attacks.

Tac squad, cheaper, more options with special and heavy weapons choices.

I think they both have uses at this point, Tac squad options could be cheaper but both choices are viable, I think.
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





I'm not sure I buy the argument for Tacs being useful due to cheapness. They're not cheaper enough to outweigh the huge advantages Intercessors have in most scenarios. But even that aside, Scouts exist in the Troops slot too. Infiltrating is extremely useful.

Between Scouts and Intercessor, I really struggle to find a sliver of a niche for Tacs.
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




When you add a weapon to a tact squad you lose their advantage which is price. 5 intercessors are better all around than 5 tacts with a lascannon and if up against vehicles the intercessors arent that far off unless the extra 12" of range is needed.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Intercessors are good for the wounds. But tacs can specialize depending on what weapon/combiweapon combo you give them. How good tacs are depends on how good you are at making use of your specialized squads. But you rarely go wrong with just taking Intercessors instead, unless you want to be mechanized.

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Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

The problem with Tacs is that maybe they can specialize compared with intercessors but if you want something done you won't invest in your Tac squads but in other kind of units.

Troops are there to take objetives and cover ground. Intercessors and Scouts are better at both of those than Tac Squads. Thats why tac squads have no place.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/16 22:11:01


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





Specialised Tac squads arent specialised enough to matter the majority of the time.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Melissia wrote:
Intercessors are good for the wounds. But tacs can specialize depending on what weapon/combiweapon combo you give them. How good tacs are depends on how good you are at making use of your specialized squads. But you rarely go wrong with just taking Intercessors instead, unless you want to be mechanized.

With the effective range though, Intercessors don't NEED to be mechanized. That's a key difference right there. Any transport for them is just an afterthought.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





Charlotte, NC

 Galas wrote:
Intercessors are phenomenal for Dark Angels.
Squads of 5 with the heavy rifle firing 5 S4 ap-3 d2 shoots rerolling ones natively at 42" in devastator doctrine, camping objetives or the backline? You can't ask for a better troop. if they can be in cover too, they are a giant annoyance for any kind of opponent.


I just played my Dark Angels against my buddies Blood Angels, I had 2 5-man Intercessor squads camped on the back line in cover with Stalker Bolt Rifles within the aura of a Primarus Lieutenant. They were awesome. Turn 1, I made 2 5-man squads of Blood Angels just disappear. He brought in Death Company, I played Auspex Scan, and 5 Death Company marines just died.

Dark Angels in the Devastator Doctrine are like the Tau now, I outrange everything, my Invictor Warsuit has an 18" Heavy Flamer that is strength 5, AP -2 (he burned the remaining Death Company off the board).

And the Talon Master just deletes a unit every turn

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 Stux wrote:
Specialised Tac squads arent specialised enough to matter the majority of the time.


I find that this notion that a unit is worthless unless you create a tremendous disruption is a short-sighted conclusion.

A SB, PG tac unit is cheaper than Intercessors, offers the same bolter shot volume plus a PG, and is 12 points cheaper.

5 such tacs that move and shoot intercessors cause 1.5 wounds (26 points). 5 intercessors who stand still and double tap cause 1.7 wounds (20 points) to tacs -- this is the highest potential of this unit. If somehow all those tacs were able to double tap is 2.9 wounds or 2 if the PG can't for a unit that is 85% of the cost.

Intercessors are just easier to use and remove more of your opponent's agency more of the time, but lots of people gear to kill them.

Mathhammer is gak, but it begs the question what people think Intercessors are murdering all the time. They're not wrecking face outside Iron Hands - and even then not as much as other things. A squad of 5 RG SBRs shot at my rubrics yesterday. They were just objective campers so they had no support. Across 3 rounds where they had something to shoot - they killed nothing.

You might be surprised what can happen when your gun has a coin flip to wound and really low shot volume. I get the sense people look at that LVO TH Sarge that scored a 1 in a million set of rolls and base their judgement around scenarios like that.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/17 00:12:20


   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

 Galas wrote:
The problem with Tacs is that maybe then can specialize compared with intercessors but if you want something done you won't invest in your Tac squads but in other kind of units.

Troops are there to take objetives and cover ground. Intercessors and Scouts are better at both of those than Tac Squads. Thats why tac squads have no place.

Tac squads always have a place/use.
You know what usually gets shot at first...Intercessors. Which is a good thing, since that leaves my tacs free to shoot/scoot/objectivate. Plop Intercessors in cover close the the front of your deployment zone and bam your opponent has dangerous things they have to address.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

If I want to disrupt my enemy deepstrike, I use scouts.

If I want to camp objetives on the backline, I use intercessors. If I want a troop to tank for my other more expensive character troops, I use intercessors.

If I want to kill stuff, I use literally everything else. If my enemy is using specialized weapons to kill Intercessors then they aren't shooting at my other better units. If I have TAC squads people will just drown them in low quality fire. If they try to do that to an intercessor unit they have double the durability. I'm sorry but as a Dark Angel player I don't see a reason to use Tacticals having both scouts and intercessors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/17 00:31:35


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Exactly. People forget Tacticals can TRY and do stuff but they pay for being middling to below that at everything. Intercessors pay for just a few things:
1. A better base gun
2. An extra wound
3. An extra attack (not always in play, of course)
For just a few points more, they're really a steal. They're basically everything that Dire Avengers, Necron Warriors/Immortals, and , well, Tacticals aspire to be. Being able to buy a Plasma Gun means nothing with the amount of saturation that can be done elsewhere. People can claim Intercessors will be fired at more, and quite frankly there's a reason why: they're better.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

My tacticals get erased pretty quickly when playing against Space Marines or Ad Mech. Like 30 dead by turn 2 quickly! Most of my opponents have tried to convince me that this wouldn't happen with 2 wound intercessors, but I've decided against mixing oldmarines and Primaris for aesthetic reasons. I've yet to stick them in Razorbacks or Rhinos to see how much better they fare, but it still makes me sad to see how soft a power armored Space Marine has become.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





washington state USA

From a lore perspective i think i would feel dirty using primaris in any DA force. the unforgiven do not take lightly to outsiders.


That being said i only play deathwing/ravenwing (since 3rd ed) so the primaris question never became a thing for me.

 
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





 aphyon wrote:
From a lore perspective i think i would feel dirty using primaris in any DA force. the unforgiven do not take lightly to outsiders.


That being said i only play deathwing/ravenwing (since 3rd ed) so the primaris question never became a thing for me.


The DA untrusting of Primaris has been pretty much all but removed from fluff - with the introduction of Lazarus becoming the first primaris inner circle we should pretty much accept it.. unless this is a mace windu type deal "you are in the inner circle, but you do not have the rank of Master"




"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
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Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Specialised Tac squads arent specialised enough to matter the majority of the time.

5 such tacs that move and shoot intercessors cause 1.5 wounds (26 points). 5 intercessors who stand still and double tap cause 1.7 wounds (20 points) to tacs -- this is the highest potential of this unit. If somehow all those tacs were able to double tap is 2.9 wounds or 2 if the PG can't for a unit that is 85% of the cost.


1.5 wounds of Intercessors is 13pts, not 26pts.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Stux wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Specialised Tac squads arent specialised enough to matter the majority of the time.

5 such tacs that move and shoot intercessors cause 1.5 wounds (26 points). 5 intercessors who stand still and double tap cause 1.7 wounds (20 points) to tacs -- this is the highest potential of this unit. If somehow all those tacs were able to double tap is 2.9 wounds or 2 if the PG can't for a unit that is 85% of the cost.


1.5 wounds of Intercessors is 13pts, not 26pts.


I stand corrected. Don't drink and math-hammer, folks.

I suppose a different way to skin the cat and deal with the difference in cost -

73 / 1.5 = 48 ppw
85 / 1.7 = 50 ppw

They're quite similar.

   
 
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