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I was thinking about how many of the glass cannon units Eldar have been using in the past year (spears, reapers, crimson hunters, etc) aren't that well suited against the primaris-based Iron Hands / Imperial Fist / Raven Guard Juggernaut meta. They so easily weather the storm with ultra durability and eventually pick you apart. What if Eldar went in a different direction, high toughness, resilient defensive posture, while also being extremely multiple in how you can attack. I leaned heavily on units that both received big points reductions and were inherently tough and built for attrition. The list features Night Spinners, Vibro Cannons, and Wraithlords as it's core - all having received huge points drops. The list features 12 aeldari missile launchers, recently halved in points, giving you that variability - being able to rain down tons of frag against horde armies while also being adequate against mechanized lists seems amazing. The other half of the coin is flat damage 2 weaponry. vibro cannons and night spinners are tailor made for primaris, and the list brings them in spades. The wraithlords arent gimmicky when you consider with all the points reductions they are excellent gateways for fielding more aeldari missile launchers on ultra tough platforms; they double by providing that super defensive counterpunch, if the opponent does come into your castle they will wreak havoc with flat 3 damage fists, they are a great deterrent. I went Iyanden for the wraithseer and wraithlords preventing degradation and also creating the threat of a psytronome pop if a serious melee threat comes knocking. The rest of the list utilizes the custom attributes to pair crafters with concealment, basically giving you an army of 2+ armor vehicles with salamanders doctrine. Anyway, here's the list, would love your thoughts!


Battalion & Double Spearhead Detachments 10 CP

<Battalion Detachment – Crafters/Concealment>

HQ – Autarch w/ Star Glaive

HQ – Warlock w/ Witch Blade (Protect/Jinx)

Troops – 5x Rangers
Transport – Wave Serpent w/ Twin Aeldari Missile Launcher & Shuriken Cannon

Troops – 5x Rangers
Transport – Wave Serpent w/ Twin Aeldari Missile Launcher & Shuriken Cannon

Troops – 5x Rangers
Transport – Wave Serpent w/ Twin Aeldari Missile Launcher & Shuriken Cannon

<Spearhead Detachment – Iyanden>

HQ – Wraithseer w/ D-Cannon & the Psytronome of Iyanden (Warlord: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter)

Heavy Support – Wraithlord w/ 2x Aeldari Missile Launchers & 2x Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Wraithlord w/ 2x Aeldari Missile Launchers & 2x Shuriken Catapults
Heavy Support – Wraithlord w/ 2x Aeldari Missile Launchers & 2x Shuriken Catapults

<Spearhead Detachment – Crafters/Concealment>

HQ – Autarch w/ Star Glaive

Heavy Support – Night Spinner w/ Shuriken Cannon
Heavy Support – Night Spinner w/ Shuriken Cannon
Heavy Support – Night Spinner w/ Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support – 3x Support Platforms w/ Vibro Cannons
Heavy Support – 3x Support Platforms w/ Vibro Cannons
Heavy Support – 2x Support Platforms w/ Vibro Cannons

Well, not a bad try.
Starcannons have damage 2 and would be very suitable against 2W Primaris models.
With Aeldary missile launchers you eventually have excess damage which is not applicable.
I always found WLs and Night Spinners underwhelming and stay away from them.
The Autarchs are there for Path of Command, I guess.

Yes Autarchs are there for re roll 1's bubbles. Starcannons are D3 damage and a little sub-optimal for primaris hunting, as rolling 1 damage on the first wound and 3 damage on the second is fairly disastrous. The flat 2 damage weaponry, night spinners and vibro cannons are dedicated primaris hunters. The AML's are meant for hordes or tanks, as the two different firing modes give you great flexibility from a TAC prespective.

 peteralmo wrote:
Yes Autarchs are there for re roll 1's bubbles. Starcannons are D3 damage and a little sub-optimal for primaris hunting, as rolling 1 damage on the first wound and 3 damage on the second is fairly disastrous. The flat 2 damage weaponry, night spinners and vibro cannons are dedicated primaris hunters. The AML's are meant for hordes or tanks, as the two different firing modes give you great flexibility from a TAC prespective.

My bad about star cannons.
The core of the army should be a strong fire base, say based on vibro cannons and screening units (Rangers). They should be hard to remove thanks to enough terrain on the board.
So the remaining units will be exposed to enemy fire and here the approach to use high toughness units is a good idea.
But the damage output of Night Spinners and WL's is a bit limited.

You're right, limited is true. But that's also the philosophy of the list, it's built to defend or turtle, and battle the war of attrition, rather than the typical eldar route of hoping your glass cannon does the trick in the first 2 turns. Serpent Shields and 13 wounds gives the serpents great survivability. Night spinners can shoot out of line of sight, staying hidden in cover, with concealment attribute gives them an affective 1+ armour save before ap modifiers. Wraithlords are toughness 8 and Iyanden strongly negates any degradation. Etc etc etc. It's meant to be a very different type of eldar list. I'm excited to test it. Just waiting on one more wraithlord and a few vibro cannons.

Whats your plan against... eliminators? 1+ save in cover? Cause if they pick off your wraithseer (bad times).... Isn't there something with pick your own faction traits and fire prisms that negates the cover save bonus? Sorry I don't remember what all the new traits are, maybe you covered it already.

Also from what I have seen of Primaris, they like to sit in cover and shoot you. That pretty much makes the entire army a 2+. That is a lot to ask of Vibro Cannons to deal with.

What I have seen that I liked was defender guardians in serpents with a platform, popping out turn 2/turn 3/ turn 4 and blasting stuff to death.

FYI, I would think a typical primaris list can take 3 of your units off the table of their if they have line of sight each turn. Plus have eliminators popping characters, cause you can't stop that unless they are in wave serpents.

Night Spinners hiding out of line of sight are a great answer to eliminators. 6D6 48" range shots, strength 7 damage 2, ap -4 on 6's, doesn't need line of sight to fire. What exactly are eliminators answer to that? Could also drop concealment for masterful shots so that they ignore cover as well...

I would recommend going to the ignore cover rather than being in cover. It makes a hell of a difference IMHO.

Yeah, I think that's a correct change.

MVPs against primaris for me have been hornets with twin pulse lasers, not as solid as wraithlords but melt primaris infantry.

I'm finding wraithlords with crafters to be really good. Plus I really like the models. With twin star cannons they are very decent! I do take BL/Starcannon. Slap on masters of concealment and against anything that doesn't ignore cover they are not an appealing target due to High toughness good save and pretty low points value.

I think tempest launchers + 2mg reaper shots are very good vs marines/everything also. Maybe worth considering but need a wave serpent to hide in which is not a bad thing as wave serpents are amazing!

I do own reapers and Hornets actually, I love them and run them often, and they are quite good against primaris, I'm just hoping to showcase some seldom used units.

I'm going to advocate for Reapers.

Offense: The higher volume swarm setting on the gun is perfect for primaris-dorks. And they sport the best anti-flyer gun in the game, which is very killy on tanks, too.
Defensive: Though some muhreens get ignores cover, -1 Alaitoc, then in cover, puts them in far tougher shape. I simply wouldn't place DRs in the glass cannon category.

I have just discovered Puritanical Leadership (in the codex where I haven't looked because I've been Black Heart for nearly all of 8e) and park that warlord-farseer (guide), becoming a near perfect baby sitter, making the DRs 'fearless'.

I'm currently running lists with 20 of them. Mixed results, but it's only been 3 games.

Well, I think there is still a debate about configuring a strong Eldar army based on a strong fire base (with support batteries, Reapers and whatnot).
First you need a decent screen such as Rangers.
Then the rest of the army able to go for the enemy's throat is debatable.

 Brothererekose wrote:
I'm going to advocate for Reapers.

Offense: The higher volume swarm setting on the gun is perfect for primaris-dorks. And they sport the best anti-flyer gun in the game, which is very killy on tanks, too.
Defensive: Though some muhreens get ignores cover, -1 Alaitoc, then in cover, puts them in far tougher shape. I simply wouldn't place DRs in the glass cannon category.

I have just discovered Puritanical Leadership (in the codex where I haven't looked because I've been Black Heart for nearly all of 8e) and park that warlord-farseer (guide), becoming a near perfect baby sitter, making the DRs 'fearless'.

I'm currently running lists with 20 of them. Mixed results, but it's only been 3 games.

I run 3 x 3 reapers with expert crafters/cover over 12" every game now. At 300pts all in they are Suuuuper reliable. And they can all hide in a serpent if no first turn. Chuck in a snipy autarch with his own reaper launcher or Maugan Ra for re-roll ones and essentialy you have constant guide/doom wthout any further support.

I use range and terrain to keep them out of trouble. Usualy by T1/2 they have done the damage they were meant to do. Once people start taking all the hits they immediatly try to break through to them and ignore the heavy tough stuff they then cant kill in later rounds.

20 sounds very like eggs in one basket but if it works it works... The upside is I guess you can hde one in a serpent and DS the other blob.

 Argive wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
I'm going to advocate for Reapers.

Offense: The higher volume swarm setting on the gun is perfect for primaris-dorks. And they sport the best anti-flyer gun in the game, which is very killy on tanks, too.
Defensive: Though some muhreens get ignores cover, -1 Alaitoc, then in cover, puts them in far tougher shape. I simply wouldn't place DRs in the glass cannon category.

I have just discovered Puritanical Leadership (in the codex where I haven't looked because I've been Black Heart for nearly all of 8e) and park that warlord-farseer (guide), becoming a near perfect baby sitter, making the DRs 'fearless'.

I'm currently running lists with 20 of them. Mixed results, but it's only been 3 games.

I run 3 x 3 reapers with expert crafters/cover over 12" every game now. At 300pts all in they are Suuuuper reliable. And they can all hide in a serpent if no first turn. Chuck in a snipy autarch with his own reaper launcher or Maugan Ra for re-roll ones and essentialy you have constant guide/doom wthout any further support.

I use range and terrain to keep them out of trouble. Usualy by T1/2 they have done the damage they were meant to do. Once people start taking all the hits they immediatly try to break through to them and ignore the heavy tough stuff they then cant kill in later rounds.

20 sounds very like eggs in one basket but if it works it works... The upside is I guess you can hde one in a serpent and DS the other blob.

I love reapers, always have, but I was hoping they would have dropped by a few more points than they did. 31 ppm is still a bit much, in my opinion, considering spears are 30 ppm and have two wounds. Also hornets got a nice price decrease, 300 points for 3 hornets vs 3x3 reapers is a tough choice, but I think I'm favoring the hornets at the moment. They don't require an automatic wave serpent for them, and they're much more durable.

They are still paying for the sins of the ynnari.
But I think they feel about right maybe off by a point or two...They are T3 1 W infantry... with a 3+ after all.. But drop them anymore and they become autotake.

Why missles over brightlance? The AP-4 is great vs primaris.
Also - Falcons over serpents would work better in this list. It would also give you enough bonus points to take 1 more support weapon and maybe some spirit stones.
This is my personal preference too. SC is not really worth it over a TLSC - The spirt stone upgrade is a lot more important IMO (for the weavers - CTM is probably a better upgrade too).

 Xenomancers wrote:
Why missles over brightlance? The AP-4 is great vs primaris.
Also - Falcons over serpents would work better in this list. It would also give you enough bonus points to take 1 more support weapon and maybe some spirit stones.

Because AP-2 or -4 doesnt mean all that much if you are up against things with invulns. The damage is the same but you have a full 48" range with missles. At least in a TAC list all comers situation you can go for the D6 option and clear chaff as well. Also a d6 str 4 -1 might be better vs scouts or primaris out of cover etc.

I personaly prefer the BL all that being said but I've used AML as well and it's essentially a toss-up between the two.

 Argive wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Why missles over brightlance? The AP-4 is great vs primaris.
Also - Falcons over serpents would work better in this list. It would also give you enough bonus points to take 1 more support weapon and maybe some spirit stones.

Because AP-2 or -4 doesnt mean all that much if you are up against things with invulns. The damage is the same but you have a full 48" range with missles. At least in a TAC list all comers situation you can go for the D6 option and clear chaff as well. Also a d6 str 4 -1 might be better vs scouts or primaris out of cover etc.

I personaly prefer the BL all that being said but I've used AML as well and it's essentially a toss-up between the two.

Yeah it is a toss up normally. In an "anti primaris list" bright lance is the way to go.

Single shot damage D6 weaponry seems pretty bad against primaris infantry, of course it's great against vehicles. Like argive mentioned I really wanna see if the point drop on the AML combined with there ability to put work in against both armor and infantry shows them to be versatile solid options. Also I just think flat damage 2 weaponry is where you want to be against primaris infantry, so reapers, night spinners, vibro cannons, and heavy d-scythes all seem ideal against primaris.

Falcons are a big point save, you lose a wound and the serpent shield though, so survivability takes a big hit.

 peteralmo wrote:
Single shot damage D6 weaponry seems pretty bad against primaris infantry, of course it's great against vehicles. Like argive mentioned I really wanna see if the point drop on the AML combined with there ability to put work in against both armor and infantry shows them to be versatile solid options. Also I just think flat damage 2 weaponry is where you want to be against primaris infantry, so reapers, night spinners, vibro cannons, and heavy d-scythes all seem ideal against primaris.

Falcons are a big point save, you lose a wound and the serpent shield though, so survivability takes a big hit.

You mean points drop on twin AML/BL ?

Yeah, the AML costs the same as a bright lance now.

OP: Did you ever get a chance to play this list? I'm curious about the Wraithlord/Wraithseer detachment especially.