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Yesterday there was a leak of the rules for Valerian and Aleya… And those rules were terrible!

For those of you who know me, you know I frequently defend GW, but even I could not mount an effective defense of these rules.

BUT today, on one of the 40k Community posts, GW confirmed that the Emperor's Talons Keyword will be making a return via PA; this is huge for people that enjoyed playing Custodes + SOS, but even for those who just want to make a pure SoS detachment, it could work. Cool thing? A new faction keyword likely means some strategems that can be used by SoS- one of the big complaints about the "Null Maiden Vanguard" rules that we have right now.

Also means, of course, that SoS will not be a part of any hypothetical Agents of the Imperium dex, which in turn makes it less likely that such a dex will ever be created.

The article doesn't say that Talons of the Emperor is a keyword - it just appears to be a special rule.

It also implies that you will be forced to purchase Valerian and Aleya together, so RIP any hopes of a Sisters HQ which allows them a pure list.

Sisters are just going to be bodged into the Custodes' new Codex (where they should have been three years ago!)


Incidently, why is it that none of these Community articles seem to have any idea about the characters of Valerian and Aleya? Inj the design commentary the characters' backgrounds were completely reversed, in the last one Aleya was described as a Witch Seeker, despite being armed as a Vigilator and previously descibed as a Centura, and in this one we're informed that she accompanied Guilliman to Terra - which isn't true!

Here is the second to last paragraph:

If you’re up to speed with all the latest rules developments in Chapter Approved 2019, you’ll notice that, by only having the Imperium Faction Keyword on their combined datasheet, Valerian and Aleya cannot currently join an Adeptus Custodes Detachment without the latter losing their Battle-forged bonus. However, you need not worry, for it won’t be long before both factions will be able to fight as one once more, when the Talons of the Emperor join the epic battles of the Psychic Awakening…

While you are correct that it doesn't explicitly say the keyword is returning, the bolded line implies that Custodes and SoS will be fighting together again. There are other ways that GW could make this happen- weird battle brothers work-arounds, etc- but there is no doubt that reviving that keyword is the easiest way to achieve the promised effect.

Well, I'll be glad about that!

I have 1 built and 1 unbuilt unit of SoS that remain so because they were for some reason stripped from the roster.

They'll add good psychic defense for the army. [Well, not actually that good, but at least like some semblance of. Being Angry [and/or having a burning stick] is a much more effective psychic defense than being an anti-psyker specialist.]

Hah. Quickly glanced over the thread title and thought it said "Return of the Emperor Confirmed" glad that is not the case.

Nice, they don't mention GK. We dodged a bullet there, because being in a codex with custodes and sos would not have been a good thing.

Also, I am not a person to normaly care about stuff about it, but aren't custodes litteral perfect gigants of men, and this sos is almost the same size, at the same time custodes guy has a head scaled for a model a head taller. is it possible that someone working on the design forgot to rescale the size of the body and head when they were making the sprues for both fo the models?

Karol wrote:
Nice, they don't mention GK. We dodged a bullet there, because being in a codex with custodes and sos would not have been a good thing.

Um...what? What possible reason did you have to expect Grey Knights to be integrated into a Talons book?

Sterling191 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Nice, they don't mention GK. We dodged a bullet there, because being in a codex with custodes and sos would not have been a good thing.

Um...what? What possible reason did you have to expect Grey Knights to be integrated into a Talons book?

None, they just really like making threads all about them/GKs.

hey a lot of people on this forum were saying that GK should be removed and left as single options for other imperial armies. they live closer to GW HQ, I would rather be safe then sorry.
Specially when GW did stuff like that for AoS armies in the past, removing a ton of units while doing it.

Karol wrote:
hey a lot of people on this forum were saying that GK should be removed and left as single options for other imperial armies. they live closer to GW HQ, I would rather be safe then sorry.
Specially when GW did stuff like that for AoS armies in the past, removing a ton of units while doing it.

While I do think that GK should be consolidated with SoB & Deathwatch as "Inquisition" [which would drastically reduce the number of books I need to buy, so maybe there's an ulterior motive], I don't think anybody has ever said anything about combining GK with Custodes.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Karol wrote:
hey a lot of people on this forum were saying that GK should be removed and left as single options for other imperial armies. they live closer to GW HQ, I would rather be safe then sorry.
Specially when GW did stuff like that for AoS armies in the past, removing a ton of units while doing it.

While I do think that GK should be consolidated with SoB & Deathwatch as "Inquisition" [which would drastically reduce the number of books I need to buy, so maybe there's an ulterior motive], I don't think anybody has ever said anything about combining GK with Custodes.

I'm the exact opposite; I want an Imperial Agents dex added, and I'd prefer SoS to become it's own fully realized, albeit minimized playable army, with the Talons keyword operating across the Custodes and the SoS dexes. I know that's a pipe dream, but that would be pretty sweet.

Don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from, but I look at it this way: a lot of people were upset that marines got supplements for all of their subfactions and no one else did. People bemoaned the amount of material available to marines that just isn't available to any other faction. But I look at the Inquisition, their chambers militant and all the other Imperial Agents as Codex supplements. That's why I love the Inquisition. Combining all of that into a single book would involve the loss of so much material... I'm not willing to lose a single SoB unit, relic or strategem, and there is no way that we don't lose something in a combined dex. I can't speak to GK or DW because I don't have those armies yet. I am looking to build them though- I picked up the GK dex once I found out that PA made it viable.

For now, of course, I'm content with the return of Talons. Hopefully SoS get a bit more in PA- like allow Aleya as a separate, add a generic HQ, and the coup de grace would be a troop choice. Even if not, Talons will at least make SoS relevant again, which is a good thing.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Karol wrote:
hey a lot of people on this forum were saying that GK should be removed and left as single options for other imperial armies. they live closer to GW HQ, I would rather be safe then sorry.
Specially when GW did stuff like that for AoS armies in the past, removing a ton of units while doing it.

While I do think that GK should be consolidated with SoB & Deathwatch as "Inquisition" [which would drastically reduce the number of books I need to buy, so maybe there's an ulterior motive], I don't think anybody has ever said anything about combining GK with Custodes.

and most people who have suggested GK be reduced to a single IoM allied unit are the same people arguing for space marine codex consolidation etc. they may be arguing it but the over whelming evidance is that GW is doing just the oppisite

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Karol wrote:
hey a lot of people on this forum were saying that GK should be removed and left as single options for other imperial armies. they live closer to GW HQ, I would rather be safe then sorry.
Specially when GW did stuff like that for AoS armies in the past, removing a ton of units while doing it.

While I do think that GK should be consolidated with SoB & Deathwatch as "Inquisition" [which would drastically reduce the number of books I need to buy, so maybe there's an ulterior motive], I don't think anybody has ever said anything about combining GK with Custodes.

Sounds absolutely goofy to me considering the number of actual inquisition models vs the number of SOB, GK, or DW datasheets.

The simplest solution would be this (to me)

-Take the rules the SOB currently have for Adeptus Ministorum. Copy paste that gak.

-Ordo Hereticus units gain Adeptus Ministorum keyword.
-Ordo Xenos units don't break whatever the Deathwatch monofaction bonus is, same as Adeptus Ministorum don't break SOB bonus
-Ordo Malleus units don't break GK monofaction bonus (ie still get Tides of the Warp and chapter tactic if you include Ordo Malleus units in the detachment)

Simple, easy way to bring the various ordos militant in to their respective inquisitorial roots.

As much as people dislike to admit it, and as much as Inquisition is cool, all three "Militant chambers" (And Sisters of Battle are not one of those, they are the army of the Ministorum, not the Inquisition or the Ordo Hereticus) have grown out of their inquisitorial roots, because people like to have their army of badass woman, badass alien hunter space marines, or baddass silver paladins commanded by badass veteran women, badass alien hunter captains and badass silver champions, and not some random Sir NobodyKnowsMyName ugly human that has come out of a John Blanche mental acid-induced trip.


Sisters of Battle, Deathwatch and GreyKnights are much cooler than the Inquisition, and just as Sisters of Battle are less cool when they are commanded by fat priest, all of them are less cool when mixed with, and , their authority striped in benefit of an FFG's RPG character.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
While I do think that GK should be consolidated with SoB & Deathwatch as "Inquisition" [which would drastically reduce the number of books I need to buy, so maybe there's an ulterior motive], I don't think anybody has ever said anything about combining GK with Custodes.

GK and custodes fit from a rules and factional balance sense.
At the moment they are both competing for the 'more elite than elite' marine position with the GK in particular losing out on specialisation to be more usable as a self contained army. Combined with custodes/sos they add a strong psychic element and the middle ground for when a custode is too much and a sister is too little.
Part of this is just down to GW seemingly not having any plans on how to advance GK as a faction - Custodes with forgeworld are a more complete and diverse army with so much in the GK list being a slight variant on a theme to fill out units, they haven't ultimately moved all that far from their 3e codex and its entire fast attack section of "your troops are fast attack if they deepstrike". What little they have gained are mostly marine hand-me-downs like the razorback.

SoB are the best place for the inquisition. I know not everyone likes non-sororitas forces with them but the mixed armies of the imperium was always part of their charm IMO, and separates them from marines. Plus a sword swinging lunatic on a giant walking chair is exactly the kind of unit you want supporting your flamethrower armed nuns / crazed cyborg penitents / space crusaders.

Deathwatch belong with the other marines. They are sternguard and a flyer, and not much more (and I collect deathwatch...)

 Galas wrote:
As much as people dislike to admit it, and as much as Inquisition is cool, all three "Militant chambers" (And Sisters of Battle are not one of those, they are the army of the Ministorum, not the Inquisition or the Ordo Hereticus) have grown out of their inquisitorial roots, because people like to have their army of badass woman, badass alien hunter space marines, or baddass silver paladins commanded by badass veteran women, badass alien hunter captains and badass silver champions, and not some random Sir NobodyKnowsMyName ugly human that has come out of a John Blanche mental acid-induced trip.


Sisters of Battle, Deathwatch and GreyKnights are much cooler than the Inquisition, and just as Sisters of Battle are less cool when they are commanded by fat priest, all of them are less cool when mixed with, and , their authority striped in benefit of an FFG's RPG character.

I mean that's just, like, your opinion man.

I'm going to be pretty annoyed if I'm no longer able to take my inquisitorial retinue alongside my deathwach if they give DW some kind of fancy doctrine deal.

I'm totally fine with being able to use Inquisitorial units alongside GK, DW and SoB without losing bonuses. Is fitting to the narrative and more , cool options are good.

My post was more for people claiming for the reunification of the three armies in a "Inquisiton" book, or making DW and GK a single unit entry like ... 20 fething years ago.

I'm going to pretend to have a neutral opinion on the matter: