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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Building an All-Comers list for some 500 point office 40K. I understand the HQ is likely overfitted but I’m using what I can from Killteam without buying a command squad box. Really want to run Tallarn because I think the agile movement type of gameplay would be fun. Also I like desert camo. Feedback is appreciated.

I haven’t played true 40k yet, so please bear with me




++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [29 PL, 499pts, -1CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Tallarn

+ Stratagems +

Tank Ace [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 43pts]: Plasma pistol, Power fist, Relic: The Laurels of Command, Warlord, WT (Tallarn): Swift Attacker

Company Commander [2 PL, 39pts]: Plasma pistol, Power sword

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 51pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 178pts]: Armoured Rush
. Leman Russ Punisher: Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Track guards, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon

[b]++ Total: [29 PL, 499pts, -1CP] ++[/]
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Spoiler:
The 2 mortars + 1 lascannon in tallarn would probably work better as 3 missle launchers -- it has a better anti-horde dakka and a better anti-armor ap, and you can't use the lascannon at all unless you are in line of sight. While you may not advance and fire them, you can run all over the board with normal movement doing so, and 1 lascannon shot isn't a threat to most tanks, its going to wound them. Using the stratagems for heavy weapons guys and firing 3 missles, though, you are a real threat. (Or 3d6 anti-horde wounding at +1, from the new strat if I remember it right).

Psychic awakening is a nice new book for gaurd!
Armored Rush isn't a great way to use your tallarn punisher -- they work best with the +1 ap tank ace and put them on a real tank commander. It doesn't advance, but it can grant itself six inches movement before OR AFTER firing as a free order effect, and the ballistic skill is +1. So your current tank can race forward full movement and d6 advance (so abour 13 inch) and fire 20 shots (because you moved more than half) at bs4, but the tank ace can move 5 inches, ish (less than half), order itself to reposition before firing 6 more (so 11, on average only 2 less) and then fire 40 shots at ap-1, and hit with MORE of them. On average, you hit 26 times instead of 10. There is some serious tactical flexibility in being able to pull the corner of your tank back around an obstacle and prevent the enemy from firing back at all, too, and armies that impose a -1 to hit from one method or another will cut the "hits" from your lrbt to 5, but still let you hit with the tank commander version 20 times (at 1 better ap).
Where you find the 32 poitns to buy this upgrade is up to you, but its seriously worth it -- the leman russ tanks can be bad touched, and that makes them incredibly happy to have the ability to open that range back up after firing from the very edge of 24 inches away, which is something you just can't do withotu being a tank commander.

You could, for example, dump one company commander. Don't worry about not having 1 order for every gaurdsman you start the game with, that is going to be an extremely transient issue.

Summary. I would convert to tank commander and switch to ap-1 on turret weapon, and make the HWS all missle launchers, and drop a company commander.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/02 17:55:22


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Dukeofstuff wrote:
Spoiler:
The 2 mortars + 1 lascannon in tallarn would probably work better as 3 missle launchers -- it has a better anti-horde dakka and a better anti-armor ap, and you can't use the lascannon at all unless you are in line of sight. While you may not advance and fire them, you can run all over the board with normal movement doing so, and 1 lascannon shot isn't a threat to most tanks, its going to wound them. Using the stratagems for heavy weapons guys and firing 3 missles, though, you are a real threat. (Or 3d6 anti-horde wounding at +1, from the new strat if I remember it right).

Psychic awakening is a nice new book for gaurd!
Armored Rush isn't a great way to use your tallarn punisher -- they work best with the +1 ap tank ace and put them on a real tank commander. It doesn't advance, but it can grant itself six inches movement before OR AFTER firing as a free order effect, and the ballistic skill is +1. So your current tank can race forward full movement and d6 advance (so abour 13 inch) and fire 20 shots (because you moved more than half) at bs4, but the tank ace can move 5 inches, ish (less than half), order itself to reposition before firing 6 more (so 11, on average only 2 less) and then fire 40 shots at ap-1, and hit with MORE of them. On average, you hit 26 times instead of 10. There is some serious tactical flexibility in being able to pull the corner of your tank back around an obstacle and prevent the enemy from firing back at all, too, and armies that impose a -1 to hit from one method or another will cut the "hits" from your lrbt to 5, but still let you hit with the tank commander version 20 times (at 1 better ap).
Where you find the 32 poitns to buy this upgrade is up to you, but its seriously worth it -- the leman russ tanks can be bad touched, and that makes them incredibly happy to have the ability to open that range back up after firing from the very edge of 24 inches away, which is something you just can't do withotu being a tank commander.

You could, for example, dump one company commander. Don't worry about not having 1 order for every gaurdsman you start the game with, that is going to be an extremely transient issue.

Summary. I would convert to tank commander and switch to ap-1 on turret weapon, and make the HWS all missle launchers, and drop a company commander.







Thanks a ton for the breakdown! I do have an unbuilt Russ I can build as whatever. Would taking something more geared to antitank be better than the Punisher at this point level?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Spoiler:
Bear in mind at 500 points there are only so many tanks you face, if the enemy wants to have any weapons leftover at all.
Many foes will have trouble removing your groudn troops quickly (note not all foes, some, like space marines, are essentailly going to cut them up with bolterswarms). But if you were to expand your army to 2000, you would have 16 troops, 4 heavy weapons, and 4 tanks, in other words, you are a micro horde army.

As such, its a good idea to hide your antitank in your troops.
For example, lose the heavy weapon squad but put each team with its missle launcher into your four units (you have 48 points to play with there) .. 8 points remain.
Doing the maths, you actually have a few points left over, so you could afford an astropath (with the spell malstrom if you want him to be offense based, or with the spell nightshroud if you want him defensive) for a mere 15 points. He can cast, he can deny a spell of the enemy, and he can designate an enemy unit to strip cover.
So here is (points recalculated and all my suggestions, even the ones I am rethinking on the fly tonight) your army the way I would run it as tallarn....
Company commander with powerfist and plasma pistol 43 He is warlord but takes old grudges instead of the erstwhile laurels.
Option A. Skill option. Tallarn Tank Commander with demolisher cannon, master mechanic, 2 plasma cannon in sponsoons, 1 laser cannon in main gun
Reason. This tank will remove enemy armor very efficiently. -1 damage per incoming hit is probably worth a great deal more than adding penetration to the very powerful (if shorter ranged) demolisher cannon. The number of shots you get will max out with the strategem (-1cp) each turn. This tank is absolute murder, moving forward in a blur half movement, plus six inches more right before shooting, plus fires its plasma cannons six shots, plus 1 for the lascannon, plus 12 for the main gun. That's 15 antitank weapons at close range, with ap -3 being the "light" ones. Enough to target an enemy knight or landraider and expect to kill it, when you factor in reroll 1's and that you are going to reroll ALL WOUNDS against one enemy unit (the best one the enemy has, is often his only really expensive unit at 500 points). Statistically, 9demo>8wound>4d6 damage to the enemy + .67 lascan hits>.59wound>3tenthsd6damage+6plas>4 hit>3.6wound>3.6damage (assuming you are firing at a knight with 4++ shields)
This sunday punch costs 1 cp, but brutally and effectively does 19 points of damage to a knight on average. The average knight at 500 poitns will have, fyi, 24 hit points total. Any lesser tank or thing is going to be very challenged to live. 197 points -- but to keep math simple, throw in a storm bolter on top of that, so 199.
Option B. Dial it in option. Tallarn tank commander with the hammer of sunderance ( a battle cannon relic), master mechanic, 2 plasma cannon in sponsoons, 1 laser cannon in main gun.
This tank has far more range and will often thus have far greater survivability, withdrawing after shooting in and behind some terrain to block lines of fire, rather than spending its order to zip forward. The hammer is ap-2 (which is fine against invuln shield armies, but will struggle a bit against things like centurions in cover. But .. same damage output, at up to range 36, and still respectable beyodn that. It starts your game -3 cp which is a lot at 500 points, and you will probably use 3 cp to max its fire for the first 3 roudns, leaving only 2 for any other purpose. But ... ) it only loses statistically 2 points of damage to a knight, which is a daunting 17/24 average hits. Against some enemies, its going to do potentially better, consistant damage of 3,3,3,3 kills 2 centurions or 4 aggressors than inconsistant damage of 1,1,1,6 (and demolishers CAN roll that way, killing single centurion with 9 points damage just cause its out of order.) All in all, this tank is very output competitive and easier to use, but you will have far fewer cp left over. 199 points

So your command wing has a company commander and a tank, for 242 points.
4 squads = 160 points. 4 plasma rifles = 28 points
1 heavy weapon squad with 3 missle launchers = 48
22 points left.
Option "swift wind"
Now you can trim the HWS back into the 4 squads if you want, giving each squad a plasma rifle + missle launcher (this is a good loadout, has some punch, and 8 bodies that an enemy has to chew through to kill the 2 guns). That reduces your cost if you take the option by just enough to take a second company commander, meaning you can order all your units every round, with tallarns, that means they zip across the board like crazy. "forwards for the emperor" lets you use those 4 missle weapons while advancing each round, albeit at -1 to hit, just crazy! Or move, move, move, to zip across the board as a mass that the enemy suddenly notices has taken position inside protective cover and thus safe from shooting.
Option "psyker shenanigans"
One nightshroud astropath OR 1 aegis of the emperor astropath give your superduper battletank a +1 armor save OR -1 to be hit, making it far more likely to keep hurting things. This option also gives your army some fairly decent denial of enemy spells capabilities, but you will have to ration the orders for your 4 infantry more carefully. The heavy weapons squad will burn a command point a round to fire at +1 and wound at +1, which makes its krak missles terrifying to armor and makes its frag missles terrifying to hordes. With the order to reroll 1's, you are firiing about as well as marines at most targets.
Downside is a dead heavy weapons team pretty quick, because if you were my opponent, I would probably kill it before, not after, the big tank. Its an easy kill ... and the weapons that kill it are often weapons that can't affect the tank anyway.
So putting it all together.
2 company commanders, 1 with laurels of command, 1 with old grudges, one with a plasma fist and one with a plasma pistol (split them!)
1 tank commander with the hammer of sunderance, 2 plasma cannon, 1 laser cannon, master mechanic
4 infantry squads with 1 missle launcher and 1 plasma rifle each
.......OR......
1 company commander with pwrfist and plasmapist, and laurels of command
1 tank commander with the demolisher cannon, 2 plasma cannon, lascannon, and stormbolter, master mechanic
4 infantry squads with 1 plasma rifle each
1 heavy weapons squad with 3 missle launchers
1 astropath with the psyker power of your choice. (nightshroud, aegis, and malstrom all being great)
This build is actually only 493 points, meaning you can give out a plasma sword to 1 sgt and a bolter gun to the other 3, if you have the models, or you can build the tank with a hunterkiller 1 shot missle on it (for that first turn ranged fire).

I think the short range tank commander in option B is harder to use well, and the heavy weapons squad more vulnerable (but cleverly used still quite powerful with the +hit/+woudn strat) .. so I reckon this second optoin is the harder one to play. It gives you some nice options to buff the tank's survival though, with the astropath, and the astropath's ability to strip cover will also support lasgun fire from the bulk of the army against harder targets. I would be comfortable playing either list, either stepping out of concealment with the long ranged hammer tank, and then back in, or racing forward with the short ranged murderdeathtank, and focusing my enemy's attention almost entirely on THAT target. (Hence the defensive buff astropath). You could hybridize the two ideas and drop the HWS, split 4 missles out into the squads, and get a second astropath, as well, because -1 to hit AND +1 to save make taht short ranged tank (with an intrinsic -1 to damage dealt) a fairly solid survivor for a couple rounds at 500 points.



Anyway. The alterations from your army are subtle here, but executive summary is plasma sponsoons, a tank commander with (hammer of sunderance) or (a demolisher cannon) , and a lascannon.
I personally always split my heavy weapons out across as many squads as possible, and I favor missle launchers over any other heavy weapon, but I can see reasons to keep as it is, too. I don't think that there are any bad choices for you, although tallarn tactics take a bit of skill, your core is solid here.

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




If you have not yet built the last LRBT, DO NOT GLUE IN THE WEAPONS.

The Punisher/Demolisher/Executioner LRBT will friction fit all of the weapons. This means you can change out the turret, the sponsons, and the hull mounted weapon.

The Battle Cannon russ will need some magnets to swap turrets, but the sponsons and hull mount can still be friction fitted.

My 0.02 would be to keep the LRBT as cheap as possible, but this would not mesh as well with the Tank Ace upgrade you are talking about. Have not run them yet, but they seem fun
   
 
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