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At least I presume so, there is no mention that I could find in the article that they had bought it off Mongoose.
https://www.warlordgames.com/countdown-to-victory-at-sea/

Full Contents:
A4 Battle of the Pacific Rules manual
Die-cut game tokens sheet
Ship Cards and damage sliders x 15
Ten-sided dice x 4
Six-sided dice x 12
A0 Sea Mat x2
15 Warlord Resin model ships:
USS Indianapolis 1944
USS Northampton 1942
USS Chicago 1942
Mogami 1939
Kumano 1944
Furutaka 1939
Fubuki-class Destroyer x3
Fletcher-class Destroyer x 6
Ship Cards and damage sliders x 15
Ten-sided dice x 4
Six-sided dice x 12
A0 Sea Mat x2

Releasing in 4 days, not sure of what to think at the moment, I like Victory at Sea by mongoose so if its the same game then it will be good but my goodness are those bases on the ships ugly.

It would be a totally different game if you painted those bases flesh colored with a heavy red wash.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It would be a totally different game if you painted those bases flesh colored with a heavy red wash.

What horrible game are you planning on homebrewing?

I kind of want to see, but don't. But I do.

Looks completely...okay, in a typical Warlord way. Hope the ships can be assembled without the awful bases though.

Nice to see the game being supported, i have been playing it for years. i use the axis and allies war at sea miniatures for the game.

Brigade miniatures also has some great naval terrain in scale for victory at see including sea forts, sea walls, lighthouses, warfs etc...

I'm excited to have an accessible WWII naval game with miniatures.

Oh boy the Indianapolis that's an infamous choice. Watch out for the sharks!

Ooooo, I loved axis and allies war at sea. This looks juicy

The bases are horrible. It looks like a flotilla of hovercraft.

So, at that scale the ships aren't very big, but what's with the humongous bases? They're as tall as the ships' hulls. Just look at the models set up on the mat. Gigantic, dark blue shapes with indistinct small thingies on top that may or may not be ships. Horrid look.

A friend told me about this a while back and I thought I was down for it, but aesthetically the game looks like a dud to me.

Warlord picked up VaS from Mongoose a few years back, guessing the models have those horrible bases as they will be a resin base and hull with metal turrets and a few metal details the same as the Mongoose ones

which were horrible because of the bases.

the "ship cars with damage sliders" bit is a concern for me, VaS 1 was ok, ship record chards with checkboxes on worked nicely but was up to the players to sort out.

the mechanics were not bad, a bit "40k at sea" with buckets of dice but it wasn't actually a bad game - Mongoose were way too slow bringing out models so I went 1/2400 and the GHQ models which were a lot better.

however won't be buying into this, largely because I have V1 and the expansion set, plus ships in a different scale so I don't really need it but if its similar to V1 in how it plays it won't be a bad little game

Didn’t Warlord just release a WW2 naval game with plastic ships (and metal and resin ships) a year ago? What happened to that?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Didn’t Warlord just release a WW2 naval game with plastic ships (and metal and resin ships) a year ago? What happened to that?

"Cruel Seas", that ones a torpedo boat scale game, VaS is a full on fleet battle line slugfest game, though expect a lot of somewhat non historical matchups, historically navies have been very good at avoiding fair fights

this one is for sinking the Bismark etc.

decent choice of having the starter set be the war in the pacific though

Never got into VaS initially, but the massive bases are a bit of a turn-off.

It's the same scale as my Axis & Allies War at Sea ships, so I'm a little tempted to pick it up and just use those, if the bases aren't removable.


Although the flimsy looking cardboard parts aren't looking too appealing.

WLG acquired the rights from Mongoose some years ago, announced as much, but I never heard anything about it til now. I am keen to get the starter.

It looks like the bases are set sizes, probably for rules/maneuver reasons. I don't see why someone couldn't hypothetically just plop A&AM ships on flat acrylic bases with identical footprints.

Interesting.

Fireforge Games is working on their own 1:1800 WW2 naval game. Some miniatures have been previewed (including the Fuso), and iirc the game is expected late this year. If it comes out as planned, then there might be a nice assortment of retail store friendly models out soon. Very useful if Warlord does its usual "slow down the support after release" thing.

Or you can just go to Shapeways, which is where I recently picked up Myoko and Salt Lake City.

Also, the four individually listed ships are Warspite, Bismark, Yamato... and Idaho!?

Iowa (or Missouri) would have been the no-brainer. South Dakota or Washington are perhaps the most important battle veterans. Who picked Idaho as the signature USN ship?

I emailed someone at Warlord games, and he thought the bases were NOT removable.

Bummer!

But I'll likely pick up the rulebook. I too have piles and piles of A&A War at Sea minis lying around in a box somewhere, waiting for some love!

There are lots of alternative ships for WW2 in all kinds of scales, and resin, metal, etc in historical circles. So there is no lack of choice.

There are also tons of rulesets for WW2 ship fighting too - some very much simulation, and some "beer and pretzels".

The challenge with WW2 naval is that, aside from the Pacific, there weren't many surface engagements with fleets, and even there, the Pacific had a lot of nighttime engagements.

WW2 was not like Jutland. There were some duels, but battleships ended up more effective as artillery support, rather than in ship to ship (especially as planes and carriers evolved).

Seeing the setup, the board, and the ships being mentioned, really doesn't sell it for me.

That wouldn't stop the game from creating heaps of naval engagements - much in the way we do with many wargames (armies often fighting when they shouldn't, ignoring mass casualties, etc. etc.).

One of the more "what if" style games. Shame since you could combine it with submarines and aviation units - abstract the scale and have something a bit more interesting, perhaps. The boxed set does nothing for me, as it screams 'Warlord Games". A feeling that this was nobody's passion project but rather a by-the-number "investment" in another purchased property. The boxed contents scream minimal effort, just churning out another game. I'd like to be wrong, but that's the distinct feeling I get from a lot of Warlord Games style products.

At least I know the book should be okay - I played some Victory at Sea maybe...7-8 years ago with the re-released book of the time. Completely okay, nothing ground breaking or thoroughly immersive/enjoyable.

 Elbows wrote:
That wouldn't stop the game from creating heaps of naval engagements - much in the way we do with many wargames (armies often fighting when they shouldn't, ignoring mass casualties, etc. etc.).

One of the more "what if" style games. Shame since you could combine it with submarines and aviation units - abstract the scale and have something a bit more interesting, perhaps. The boxed set does nothing for me, as it screams 'Warlord Games". A feeling that this was nobody's passion project but rather a by-the-number "investment" in another purchased property. The boxed contents scream minimal effort, just churning out another game. I'd like to be wrong, but that's the distinct feeling I get from a lot of Warlord Games style products.

At least I know the book should be okay - I played some Victory at Sea maybe...7-8 years ago with the re-released book of the time. Completely okay, nothing ground breaking or thoroughly immersive/enjoyable.

The fleet boxes prominently - excepting the Kriegsmarine box, for obvious reasons - feature aircraft carriers. And it's not just cover art. Painted aircraft carrier figures are visible on the one side of each of those three boxes that are visible on Warlord's store page, indicating that the boxes do contain at least one miniature representing an aircraft carrier. Air is presumably incorporated into the game in some fashion. Whether it's a good fashion is anyone's guess. But I'd be surprised if they included carriers in the roll-out fleet boxes - which they evidently are doing - but didn't include any rules for carrier aircraft.

Submarines during this time period had uses during fleet engagements. But that use was primarily for spotting and reporting the locations of enemy ships, and harassing enemy ships both before and after the actual fighting. Submarines did kill warships. But none of those kills happened during the middle of the battle. Yorktown's death was about as close as any submarine ever came to sinking a warship during the actual fighting, and that didn't occur until shortly after Hiryu's second and final airstrike had inflicted critical (though still - amazingly enough - non-fatal) damage to the carrier.

and the ships being mentioned, really doesn't sell it for me.

About that...

Interestingly enough, one of the four battleships presented as the prominent ship for its nation is HMS Warspite. Warspite fought in a number of engagements in the Atlantic. In one of those, it earned fame by hitting an Italian battleship - Gulio Cesare - at the incredible range of over 26,000 yards. I think it's safe to say that it earned its spot on the list.

You can argue about Bismark and Yamato. Neither ship accomplished much during their respective careers (Bismark sank an outdated battlecruiser, and damaged the Prince of Wales; Yamato accomplished even less, and got stood off by Taffy 3 during its sole surface engagement), but both ships have a certain amount of notoriety due to their prominence within their respective fleets. Players will look for them.

That leaves USS Idaho. As I mentioned above, I haven't got a clue why Warlord chose to use her as the prominent USN ship.

WW2 was not like Jutland.

Even Jutland wasn't really Jutland. For all its fame, it was extremely anti-climactic. The German navy sailed out, both sides fired shells at each other, and then the Germans ran back to port before the British could force a decisive confrontation. No battleships were sunk during that fighting. The last war that actually had prominent - and significant - confrontations between opposing battleship squadrons was the war between Russia and Japan. And that was pre-Dreadnought.

 Cruentus wrote:


The challenge with WW2 naval is that, aside from the Pacific, there weren't many surface engagements with fleets, and even there, the Pacific had a lot of nighttime engagements.

Decent amount of scraps in the Mediterranean, and their are choice battles across the globe - plenty in the Pacific, as you say.

 Elbows wrote:

Shame since you could combine it with submarines and aviation units - abstract the scale and have something a bit more interesting, perhaps.

We focussed on this a great deal this time round, to the extent that aircraft only 'fleets' are both possible and enjoyable - we have the scenarios for Taranto and Pearl Harbour, for example, all written up and ready to go. Aircraft fulfil a range of decent missions, including ASW and observation roles, and Submersibles will be integrated into their own 'mini-game' that will see you using sub-hunters to track them down before the lethal torpedo shot gets launched.

Added to that, motor torpedo boats, coastal craft, plus a whole coastal invasion system that will see a fleet bombarding the shore line (as the coastal guns fire back) while landing craft take troops and armour ashore to capture tactical points such as airfields, MTB harbours, HQs, etc.

There is a great deal coming for Victory at Sea.

Eumerin wrote:

Warspite fought in a number of engagements in the Atlantic. In one of those, it earned fame by hitting an Italian battleship - Gulio Cesare - at the incredible range of over 26,000 yards. I think it's safe to say that it earned its spot on the list.

I would say that might be the least of the reasons to include Warspite - the ship seemed to be practically unkillable

Are you still doing the rules Matt?

As for theatres of operation, when i built up my fleets using the A&A war at sea minis i built my japanese fleet for an open ocean fleet engagement. for the british fleet i set up for a north atlantic anti-raider force and as such it is a far lighter skirmish force. so it is perfectly reasonable to do fleet engagements in the different conditions and still feel historically immersive.

 ingtaer wrote:
Are you still doing the rules Matt?

We are! Happy to answer any questions

Hi Matt,

What's different from the last version of VoS? Are there any examples of play up online yet?

...Any chance it's possible the ships could be removable from their bases...? To give us more hobby options? (I realize that last one might be a bit of wishful thinking)

Thanks!

 ingtaer wrote:
At least I presume so, there is no mention that I could find in the article that they had bought it off Mongoose.

There was an announcement in January 2015 and had it running at Warlord Games Day May 2015

 pancakeonions wrote:
Hi Matt,

What's different from the last version of VoS? Are there any examples of play up online yet?

...Any chance it's possible the ships could be removable from their bases...? To give us more hobby options? (I realize that last one might be a bit of wishful thinking)

Thanks!

Warlord's going to open the pre-orders tomorrow. Hopefully there will be more info at that time. For starters, they still need to tell us what's in the fleet boxes.

I'll pick up a couple of starters.
I don't mind the bases but I will scrape the names off. Those are pointless and limiting.