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Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

Hi. I am a bit new to AoS. What are ways to get CP in ogre allies? Or also in a death list? (I am building an ogre army where I want CP. Also, if I ever bring out Tomb Kings as death they soreley need CP.)

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





How do you mean "Ogre allies"? I'm a bit confused about the allies part and how that is relevant.

Anyway, you have 2 main ways to get CP. Add a Battalion to your list, or pay 50pts each for extra CP.

Another indirect method is using artefacts. Any army can make use of the realm specific artefacts. If you say your army is from Hysh, you can take the Aetherquartz Brooch - which allows you to roll a dice every time you spend a CP and on a 5+ you get it back. Over the course of a game this should net you a couple of extra CP.

Bare in mind that for many armies, including Ogors, if you pick a sub faction then your first artefact MUST be the faction specific artefact. Therefore to get the brooch above you would need to include a Battalion in your army to get a 2nd artefact.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/08 11:03:51


 
   
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Bergen

There i a goblin with a fungus on his head that ads a command point some times. But he is destruction and goblin only, not ogor, right? I do not know if any of the ogor allies units give CP?

Also, there is Night Haunt that steals CP from the opponent and gives to the owner in a Death army?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Niiai wrote:
There i a goblin with a fungus on his head that ads a command point some times. But he is destruction and goblin only, not ogor, right? I do not know if any of the ogor allies units give CP?

Also, there is Night Haunt that steals CP from the opponent and gives to the owner in a Death army?


Oh ok. If you have Ogors as your allegiance, you can only include units with TROGGOTH or GARGANT as allies. They have a very restrictive allies list. I'm not aware of any allies they can take that help with CP.

What exactly are you planning to do with these CP? Most game plans dont really need much more than the 1 per turn. More are useful for sure, but often not worth hobbling your list chasing after.

As for Nighthaunt, yes they have a named character who steals the opponent's CP on a 5+ roll each time they gain one. He's not all that great a unit though, so I'd be hesitant to recommend it. Just take the Aetherquartz Brooch.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/08 18:24:19


 
   
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Bergen

For Ogor lists have a hunter ambush with 12 kitties. Kitties need 5 or more to charge. Re-roll if needed. After that every CP ads 12 more attacks. Should be easy to clear screens (Mimd you, all 12 kitties might not get to attack.) The hunter general ads 1d3 CP in the start of the turn.

Run two waves of this and you should be abel to clear screens, and attack glasscannon units. While dogs make for a screen that can keep up with Ogor movements.

So my oponent has no screens, I have screens. And there is a batalion that allows to do this in one drop. Also, small 2 cat units are good for grabbing objectives.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

For reference, the model in question is the Fungoid Cave Shaman.

Mouthpiece of Mork: If this model is on the battlefield at the start of your hero phase, roll a dice. On a 4+ you receive 1 extra command point.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

 Niiai wrote:
Hi. I am a bit new to AoS. What are ways to get CP in ogre allies? Or also in a death list? (I am building an ogre army where I want CP. Also, if I ever bring out Tomb Kings as death they soreley need CP.)


You do realize that you can read every units scroll just by going to DWs site, clicking on a unit, then clicking the download tab in its description, right?
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Niiai wrote:
For Ogor lists have a hunter ambush with 12 kitties. Kitties need 5 or more to charge. Re-roll if needed. After that every CP ads 12 more attacks. Should be easy to clear screens (Mimd you, all 12 kitties might not get to attack.) The hunter general ads 1d3 CP in the start of the turn.

Run two waves of this and you should be abel to clear screens, and attack glasscannon units. While dogs make for a screen that can keep up with Ogor movements.

So my oponent has no screens, I have screens. And there is a batalion that allows to do this in one drop. Also, small 2 cat units are good for grabbing objectives.


Ok well in Ogors you're probably just starting with 2 cp plus any your purchase with points. But for that I honestly wouldnt bother buying more CP just to give your cats more attacks, it's not worth it.

12 attacks is on average 6 hits which is 4 wounds. Against a 4+ save that's 2.7 extra damage. That doesnt seem all that exciting a use of CP to me. And as you say, that's only with all cats in range and able to attack.
   
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Bergen

 Stux wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
For Ogor lists have a hunter ambush with 12 kitties. Kitties need 5 or more to charge. Re-roll if needed. After that every CP ads 12 more attacks. Should be easy to clear screens (Mimd you, all 12 kitties might not get to attack.) The hunter general ads 1d3 CP in the start of the turn.

Run two waves of this and you should be abel to clear screens, and attack glasscannon units. While dogs make for a screen that can keep up with Ogor movements.

So my oponent has no screens, I have screens. And there is a batalion that allows to do this in one drop. Also, small 2 cat units are good for grabbing objectives.


Ok well in Ogors you're probably just starting with 2 cp plus any your purchase with points. But for that I honestly wouldnt bother buying more CP just to give your cats more attacks, it's not worth it.

12 attacks is on average 6 hits which is 4 wounds. Against a 4+ save that's 2.7 extra damage. That doesnt seem all that exciting a use of CP to me. And as you say, that's only with all cats in range and able to attack.


My thinkin is have an batalion, a Kattanak Browplate and Winter Ranger command trait. That is 3 CP + 1d3 CP on the first turn. (I asume that Kattanak Browplate works while I am in reserves, but I do not know.) That is 4 or 6 CP first turn. The cats needs to charge on a 5+, so perhaps spend one or two CP to re-roll the charge. Once you enter the charge do some averadge maths to find out how many wouds you need to kill the screening unit. (I do not know if most screening units have a 4+ save. I will need to test this out in the field.)

If any CP are left I will add that to 1+1d3 CP turn 2 and charge what is really dangerush now that the screen is gone with the second hunter + cats. If no good opertunaty presentsitself I will have the hunter in reserve for an exstra turn for and aditional 1d3 CP and then turn those CP into damage on the most dangerush units.

However, I have considered doing this in Winterbite Mawtribe. This would give me the winterttouched trait that really increase my damage. (Wounding in 2+ instead of 3+.) Also the Howl of the Wind would help vs always strike first armies (that would mess me up) or against counter charges. But it really messes me up as I loose the Winter Ranger trait and have no good source for CP left.

If I have very few drops (2 battalions for instace would be 2 drops) then my opponent gets first turn, and hopefully I get the 2 turns in a row. Having kittie screens for myself, and removing screens from my opponent would out them in a difficult possition. Their important units would be left exposed while my dangerush units would not be exposed.

That is why I am looking for sources of CP. I assumed asking here is easier then looking through every warscroll outside of ogors induvidually. I could try to do the same in a destruction army, but then I loose the battalions and there is no way I am finished deploying first.


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





It depends who you are facing. But generally putting so much of your resources into removing a screen just isnt worth it imo.

Also 4+ save on a screen isnt that uncommon. Stormcast all have a 4+, Nighthaunt are mostly 5+ but ignore rend which is functionally the same against the cats. A lot of Stormcast and other screens will have shields that may give rerolls of 1 to save or ignore your rend. Stormcast have 2 wounds so with shields you are probably struggling to kill 1 Sequitor for each CP spent.

Bonereapers potentially have a rerollable 3+ on their basic Battleline unit, so if you face them this wont even scratch the surface really.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/09 11:59:13


 
   
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Bergen

So what in Death alliance generate CP? Just the king that steals?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





Depends what you're running.

Basically nothing in Legions of Nagash - even worse, the majority of their Battalions are not very playable at all, so even getting an extra 1 is a big pain other than just spending points on them. They can still take the Aetherquartz Brooch I mentioned before though.

Nighthaunt as you say have that character, but it's a lot of points to spend on a 1/3 chance of an extra CP each turn. They do have some easier to fill Battalions though.

Bonereapers are a completely different animal. They dont use CP, they use Relenless Discipline Points. RDP are functionally very similar to CP. They dont count as CP for rules purposes though. Most Bonereapers units have abilities you can spend RDPs on, and you can expect most lists to have something like 5 to 10 of them to spend EVERY turn. Some of the abilities are really powerful too. But remember no one can ally with Bonereapers, so if you're using them you are JUST using them.

Generally, Bonereapers aside, CP are SUPPOSED to be a scarce resource. Most armies will start with 2 (with a Battalion) and gain 1 a turn, and that is absolutely fine. Not just fine, but optimal for a lot of competitive armies even. You'll usually sacrifice too much compared to what else you could take chasing after them.

It's very different to 40k in this regard, where maximising CP is really important. Not having a command reroll is a big part of this I think.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/11 11:18:16


 
   
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Bergen

If I am ever rolling with my TK i need CP, and the support for then is lacking. In general most builds want to spend 2 CP per turn. 1 for the exalted king or queen. 1 for the king. Then have a priest cast the buff on the unit that now explode on a 4+.

The brooch can help there. The ghost king might help except he exspensive. (TK are very exspensive except some units that are still very well costed. (Charriots come to mind.))

Regarding the Ogor question earlier running 2 battalions, browplate, brooch and the winter ranger warlord trait should give the army one of the biggest amount of CP for any army in AoS. It apears the winter rangers abilaty to generate 1d3 CP at the start of the turn is quite unique. (Balanced by the fact that Ogors do not have any good outs for CP. Besides the cats that I will attempt.) What really anoys me is that I can not combine winter ranger with the winterbite mawtribe who would benefit the most from it.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





Ok, yeah I'm afraid you really dont have anything worthwhile that TK can ally in to help them. Literally nothing for Legions. Bonereapers cant ally. Nighthaunt have the King, but as I say the synergy is so lacking I really think youd just be better off taking more guys in your main force than hoping he earns you the occasional CP.

I get why you're searching, but I'm sorry to say there just isnt a way to do this for TKs. It comes back to them not being a real faction in the game at this time, with Legacy options essentially provided 'just for fun'.

Regarding Ogors, it's possible this was intentional to not have too many stacking abilities. Would probably have been fine still, but who knows with GW logic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I have thought of that you may want to look into:

Take two units of Hexwraiths as Nighthaunt allies, and use the Delorous Guard Battalion. Makes the Hexwraiths more killy, and they get to be very efficient bodyguards for your general - yes they can use their bodyguard rule for a Tomb King general.

This doesnt get you extra CP except for the 1 for taking a Battalion, but it does also get you an extra relic. Pretty decent considering TKs dont have any Battalions themselves.

Then if you take the Brooch, spend your 2 cp turn 1, and you'll have a 50% ish chance of getting 1 back from the Brooch meaning youd have 2 to spend again turn 2.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/11 11:48:15


 
   
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Bergen

That is a good ifea. But I do not understand how the allies rule work: All death units are Death faction. But Death can ally with Nighthaunt and take Nighthaunt Battalions?

This is all confusing. I only have the Age of Sigmar gaming book and Armybook.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/11 12:14:40


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Niiai wrote:
That is a good ifea. But I do not understand how the allies rule work: All death units are Death faction. But Death can ally with Nighthaunt and take Nighthaunt Battalions?

This is all confusing. I only have the Age of Sigmar gaming book and Armybook.


I've just realised that it actually wont work with Tomb King allegiance as TKs have no allies.

But generally, allies can use their own battalions, so long as they see valid allies and it fits inside your maximum points of allies.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Stux wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
That is a good ifea. But I do not understand how the allies rule work: All death units are Death faction. But Death can ally with Nighthaunt and take Nighthaunt Battalions?

This is all confusing. I only have the Age of Sigmar gaming book and Armybook.


I've just realised that it actually wont work with Tomb King allegiance as TKs have no allies.

But generally, allies can use their own battalions, so long as they see valid allies and it fits inside your maximum points of allies.

You're also still restricted to only one out of every four units included in an army can be an allied unit, which makes it hard to fit in all but the smallest (unit-wise) of battalions as allies.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





Which is what makes Delorous Guard so good for Legions armies! Just 2 units and very low minimum points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/11 14:43:24


 
   
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Bergen

So that is a no then? No using the Nighthaunt detachment in a Death list?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Niiai wrote:
So that is a no then? No using the Nighthaunt detachment in a Death list?


You can take it in Grand Alliance Death! Just not in Tomb Kings.
   
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Bergen

I can use Nighthaunt detachments in a grand alliance Death? And not just in Nighthaunt?

Fot instance, is this a legal death army? Mostly TK units. An exstra artifact because of the detachment. And a Night Haunt detachment, even though I am in a Death alliance?


++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Death: Tomb Kings (Warscroll Compendium)) [1,940pts] ++

+ Leader +

Liche Priest [120pts]: 6. Ring of Immortality
. Skeletal Steed

Tomb King on Exalted Chariot (Settra) [460pts]: 1. Ruler of the Night, 2. Ethereal Amulet, General

+ Battleline +

Skeleton Chariots [280pts]: 2x 3 Skeleton Chariots

Skeleton Horsemen [100pts]: 5 Skeleton Horsemen

Skeleton Horsemen [100pts]: 5 Skeleton Horsemen

+ Other +

Necropolis Knights [480pts]: 2x 3 Necropolis Knights, Necropolis Shield

+ Battalion +

Battalion: The Dolorous Guard [400pts]
. Hexwraiths: 5 Hexwraiths
. Hexwraiths: 5 Hexwraiths

+ Allegiance +

Alliegiance: Allegiance: *Death*

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

+ Realm of Origin +

Realm of Origin: Origin: Shyish

++ Total: [1,940pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/11 20:45:13


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





As far as my understanding, yes this is legal.

You probably want a second opinion though, as this is some pretty niche list building.
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

No it is bot legal. Most battalions come with keywords. Only two from Nagash are grand alliance death spesific and they do not help a TK army.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Brutal Butcher





 Niiai wrote:
No it is bot legal. Most battalions come with keywords. Only two from Nagash are grand alliance death spesific and they do not help a TK army.


I'm not sure that makes the others illegal. So long as the units in the Battalion have the right keywords.

But I'm not 100% sure.
   
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Bergen

It is illegal because that battalion isbonly available to Night Haunt armies. Grand Alliance Death armies only have to battalions available for them. (Crimson keep vampires and a. endles march one. Both very uninteresting for TK run as a grand alliance death.) Hence TK can not take a battalion and no exstra artifacts or CP (besides paying 50 points for one.)

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot





 Niiai wrote:
It is illegal because that battalion isbonly available to Night Haunt armies. Grand Alliance Death armies only have to battalions available for them. (Crimson keep vampires and a. endles march one. Both very uninteresting for TK run as a grand alliance death.) Hence TK can not take a battalion and no exstra artifacts or CP (besides paying 50 points for one.)


See this question from the FAQS:
Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies
and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the
army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the
same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two
different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army
that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units,
for example)?
A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is
shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion.
In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the
Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of.
Warscroll
battalions that share the same allegiance as an army
can always be taken as part of the army, and if they
include any allied units, these units do not count against
the limits on the number of allies the army can have
(or against the points limit that can be spent on allies
in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll
battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the
army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the
limits on the number of allies the army can have (and
the points for the battalion and the units in it count
against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a
Pitched Battle).

Source:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/8f9bd00c.pdf
   
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Bergen

Oh. Well that certainly changes a few things. Thanks fot the rules clarification.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have not read the rules for the 4 'faction units'. But apparantly the little Fungoid Cave Shaman can be taken in any destruction army. (I asume the 3 other models can always be taken in their respective faction as well.) I would liked to know where that rule is stated, as I have only heard it.

 Ghaz wrote:
For reference, the model in question is the Fungoid Cave Shaman.

Mouthpiece of Mork: If this model is on the battlefield at the start of your hero phase, roll a dice. On a 4+ you receive 1 extra command point.


Opdate: I found it. This is from an FAQ.
[Thumb - Fungoid Cave-Shamans.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/21 15:46:43


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
 
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