Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Dakka,

I'm looking to build a competitive-capable army that I could do well with at tournaments or flex into pick up games without having to switch out the whole army. I really want an aspect warrior themed list so I'm mostly looking to optimize this combination.



Battleplan:

Dire Avenger hangs back/out of LOS until turn 2 when everything else deepstrikes in. They move 7" +D6 advance with an 18" range gun which means I can be at 28" minimum and be in range at the end of the movement phase.

If my opponent out ranges me then I may have to commit early. If they move forward, it theoretically opens up spaces behind their lines for my deep strikers to capitalize on.

Kharandras and the scorpions mop up backfield units. The swooping hawks can deploy as chaff clears or as a mobile screen. The banshees tie enemies up for as long as possible to buy my army time to weaken the rest of their force. I may spend a CP to give the exarch graceful avoidance for -1 to hit in cc and a 5+ FNP for maximum damage mitigation.

Ynnari opens up more strategems and a +1 to hit mechanic to proc sustained attack and the buff from Kharandras.

Combos:

Farseer+Autarch+Asurman+Dire Avenger Blob
The Dire Avengers put out 132 shots at 18" even after advancing due to Battle Focus. Blade Storm from the Exarchs makes each unmodified roll of a 6 generate an additional hit. Rerolling 1's from the Autarch means that, with no negative modifiers, they should get 128 hits. The Farseer can allow all units within 6" to reroll 1's to wound from a strategem which can allow me to drop 15 iron hand intercessors in one go. Alternatively, Doom on a big target like a knight should result in over 32 wounds and a dead knight. This flexibility allows me to spread my fire out over several units or focus fire one big threat. Even a -3 to hit Eldar flyer goes down to the weight of fire. Bladestorm and the autarch are unmodified which really helps.

Survivability wise, the -1 to hit from Alaitoc and the 4++ from Asurman means even a space marine gunline will have trouble trading blows with them. A fully buffed, 40 man line of Intercessors rapid firing kills 20 a turn which favors me in the long run.

Kharandras+Striking Scorpions

Start in deep strike. Death by 1000 Stings and Sustained Attack stack for the three Exarchs with scorpion claws. Between Shadow Strike (+1 to hit a unit in cover) and Soulburst, I calculate each Exarch will get 4.17 hits on average (6.7 hits for the one given an additional attack through United in Death and for Kharandras). The group should hit almost 15 times with scorpion claws and nearly 7 with Kharandras. There are a number of ways to get reroll to wound through Ynnari which, combined with the squads, equates to a lot of wounds. These guys bully backline units such as thunder fire cannons or eliminators as required. They are powered to take out characters if necessary or engage frontline units in a pinch.

Swooping Hawks + Warp Spiders
These guys are mostly fast moving, rapid redeploy units. They have incredible amounts of chaff clearing fire power (108 shots from the hawks). The grenade packs also stand a chance of picking wounds off of units tucked away in the backfield. The warp spiders benefit from a -1 flickerfield and Alaitoc.

Model Ideas: Total Cost $1,110.85

So... due to the lack of acceptable aspect warriors, this will be a very conversion heavy army. Most of my models will come from 3rd party publishers which means that some events may not allow them. This is a problem for someone who is try to collect another "forever army."

Dire Avengers:

Striking Scorpions:

Swooping Hawks:

Warp Spiders:

Howling Banshees:


Thoughts? More to follow

LordoftheSwarm wrote:
Battleplan:

Dire Avenger hangs back/out of LOS until turn 2 when everything else deepstrikes in. They move 7" +D6 advance with an 18" range gun which means I can be at 28" minimum and be in range at the end of the movement phase.

Scorpius tanks, Thunderfire Cannons, Whirlwinds, Storm Talons, even highly mobile Repulsor tanks are out there. I watched one such list erase 1300 or so points of cultists, CSM & DPs in one turn (he got seized on, having planned & deployed openly to rush across the board, Warp Time, etc). Good thing there, if you're playing tourneys, they'll likely be using ITC missions, and Seize the Initiative is no longer in play.

For you, without a Wave Serpent, even at 60 doods, plus Asurmen and Kar ... well.

Relic? Possibly Faolchu's wing to make your farseer able to cast in Doom's range?

Wouldn't having the Banshees in the Yannari detachment be better as the Alaitoc distance buff is wasted on a h2h unit? The Warp Spiders, too, since their gun is so short.

Speaking of Alaitoc, why not Beil-Tan for all those DAs? One Autrach's presence might not be enough to cover 60 DAs with his reroll bubble. Swap the autarch out for a farseer (keep Puritanical Leader), and gain more access to what makes eldar great, those other two psy powers, Executioner & Fortune.

I have been using 2 farseers, one always on a bike:
Jetseer has Doom & Mindwar. He gets closer to enemy's HQs and with my 15 rangers, can pop a character every other game or so with Mindwar.
Footer, sometimes with F's wing, Guide and Executioner. The footer gets Guide because he baby-sit/buffs Dark Reapers.
Autarchs don't really have much of a role these days.

You notice I mentioned Fortune, but don't use it. I take as many offensive tools over defense tools as I can.

Watchu think?

Maybe go for ulthwe if you are running that many DA? 4+/4++/6+++ might be better than -1. It only works within 12" so its not hard to mitigate seeing as their range is 18"..
And you can also get eldrad instead of a normal farseer.

ID drop the spiders though and take shadow spectres instead. Also not sure if ynnari is going to be better than headstrong/hunters of ancient relics for banshees maybe?

Not to take a dampener on your plans.. But I just don't think this concept is going to work competitively. As much as I would love it to.. T3 1W infantry is just not particularly good... Also as soon as you get hammer and anvil deployment you are bit screwed for range.

 Brothererekose wrote:


Scorpius tanks, Thunderfire Cannons, Whirlwinds, Storm Talons, even highly mobile Repulsor tanks are out there. I watched one such list erase 1300 or so points of cultists, CSM & DPs in one turn (he got seized on, having planned & deployed openly to rush across the board, Warp Time, etc). Good thing there, if you're playing tourneys, they'll likely be using ITC missions, and Seize the Initiative is no longer in play.

For you, without a Wave Serpent, even at 60 doods, plus Asurmen and Kar ... well.

I calculate that it will take 255 str 5 shots (wound on a 3+) rerolling all hits and 1's to wound to kill all the DA's... that's a lot! Between -1 to hit and the 4++ (with options for lightning reflexes) they are more survivable than they may seem. A good comment though and I'll compare vs shooting heavy builds. Hopefully I can keep snipers away too.

 Brothererekose wrote:

Relic? Possibly Faolchu's wing to make your farseer able to cast in Doom's range?

Possibly, that is a good relic pick. Doom is critical but I still am undecided on what to swap smite with.

 Brothererekose wrote:

Wouldn't having the Banshees in the Yannari detachment be better as the Alaitoc distance buff is wasted on a h2h unit? The Warp Spiders, too, since their gun is so short.

I totally agree on the banshee move. The benefit the most from reroll wounds in close combat. The warp spiders stack flicker jump's -1 with alaitoc and maybe lightning reflexes for a hard to hit unit.

 Brothererekose wrote:

Speaking of Alaitoc, why not Beil-Tan for all those DAs? One Autrach's presence might not be enough to cover 60 DAs with his reroll bubble. Swap the autarch out for a farseer (keep Puritanical Leader), and gain more access to what makes eldar great, those other two psy powers, Executioner & Fortune.

I looked at it but many buffs don't cross craftworld lines. The autarch gives back command points and gives me an un-named character for relics as well.

 Brothererekose wrote:

I have been using 2 farseers, one always on a bike:
Jetseer has Doom & Mindwar. He gets closer to enemy's HQs and with my 15 rangers, can pop a character every other game or so with Mindwar.
Footer, sometimes with F's wing, Guide and Executioner. The footer gets Guide because he baby-sit/buffs Dark Reapers.
Autarchs don't really have much of a role these days.

Good comments all! What has your list been these days?

I'm looking to go a little unconventional but still be high powered.

I've been bouncing between a lot of good things in the current league. After 2 losses, a win and a tie:

- up to 21 Dark Reapers, with 1 or 2 Wave Serpents
- 3 hemlocks
- If I include Drukhari, 3 DisCan Ravs & Black Heart archon
- 2 farseers, sometimes 3 as a Supreme Cmd detachment. Children of Prophesy. That list is a 'fun' list.
- 2 Spiritseers for the other battalion, Protect & Conceal if I don't have hemlocks

All that said, this current heat I lost to the eldar air force (8 flyers & 3 Night Spinners), .

Another eldar player, that was a tie (twice I got an important target to 1 wound and had to finish it the next turn, a hemlock and a WraithKnight). We both fielded WKs because after two Losses, it's time for 'fun' units.

SM sicarans and a Titanic thing called ... I dunno, a big FW tank. Losta guns. He went first and I had the 3 hemlock list for that mismatch.

I defeated the ringer, Tau.

What do you mean by this?

Possibly, that is a good relic pick. Doom is critical but I still am undecided on what to swap smite with.

Guide & Doom. Then Executioner, and the others are per style of your play, but one doesn't 'swap out smite'.

Clarify?
I've finished undefeated in a mid-level heat (the levels of skill sort out the way our league is run). I had one heat go 4-1. This is my worst performance so far.

 Brothererekose wrote:

I defeated the ringer, Tau.

What do you mean by this?

Possibly, that is a good relic pick. Doom is critical but I still am undecided on what to swap smite with.

Guide & Doom. Then Executioner, and the others are per style of your play, but one doesn't 'swap out smite'.

Clarify?
I've finished undefeated in a mid-level heat (the levels of skill sort out the way our league is run). I had one heat go 4-1. This is my worst performance so far.

I meant the Runes of Fortune. It's the new Eldar discipline that came out with Psychic Awakening that you can switch with smite. For instance, Ghostwalk gives a unit within 6" +2 to charge rolls.

That sounds like a good run for your eldar! Congrats on your success!

I've priced out the list and I'm nervous about spending that much money on a list that may not be successful. I have a large Tyranid force and maybe I can get a friend to let me "Proxy" for some test games before I go all in.

… gargoyle swooping hawks and all that...

LordoftheSwarm wrote:
I meant the Runes of Fortune. It's the new Eldar discipline that came out with Psychic Awakening that you can switch with smite. For instance, Ghostwalk gives a unit within 6" +2 to charge rolls.

Ah. Still Smite is so valuable in hitting h2h units that might over match what you're currently entangled or otherwise. So often, having 4 reasonably function smites, say 2 from hemlocks and then two from farseers (their rerolls make them work), these can be crucial in elminating an In-Your-Face threat.

LordoftheSwarm wrote:
I've priced out the list and I'm nervous about spending that much money on a list that may not be successful. I have a large Tyranid force and maybe I can get a friend to let me "Proxy" for some test games before I go all in.

… gargoyle swooping hawks and all that...

Oh, you're not in possession of these models.

In that case, I recommend looking at tourney lists, from the actual tourneys (BCP and other apps), and cull information from the high performing units. If you like supporting GW, then buy only half your stuff from ebay.

 Brothererekose wrote:
Oh, you're not in possession of these models.

In that case, I recommend looking at tourney lists, from the actual tourneys (BCP and other apps), and cull information from the high performing units. If you like supporting GW, then buy only half your stuff from ebay.

I'm surfing the list of units in this article. It talks about which units were in the top 100 players' lists and how many times each was taken.

https://www.goonhammer.com/meta-analysis-the-lvo-40k-championship/

Sometimes I like to be different but it's good to know if you're on the wrong track at this stage.

Well, footslogging is a slow way to die.
This particularly holds as the hoofing Aspects have T3.

I'd take MSU Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons in Serpents,
add some Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions for disrupting enemy plans.
Some Farseer and Warlocks would be fast enough to buff this army.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, footslogging is a slow way to die.
This particularly holds as the hoofing Aspects have T3.

I'd take MSU Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons in Serpents,
add some Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions for disrupting enemy plans.
Some Farseer and Warlocks would be fast enough to buff this army.

Do you recommend mixing units inside of wave serpents (e.g. fire dragons and dire avengers) or do you advocate for "pure" wave serpents?

Interestingly, offensively speaking dire avengers out perform intercessors in shooting significantly. Range is a factor though and simply marching up the board is not recommended for dire avengers....

For instance, 60 dire avengers with doom and reroll 1s kill a knight in one turn. It takes 105 stalker bolt rifles with max rerolls to do the same.

Do you recommend mixing units inside of wave serpents (e.g. fire dragons and dire avengers) or do you advocate for "pure" wave serpents?

Well, I usually pair up 5 Dire Avengers with 5 Fire Dragons in one Serpent.
It helps a lot to fight different threats like infantry and armor.