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Hi guys, I'm coming back to the hobby for the first time in nearly a decade, so I was looking for some advice on a list. It is not meant to be a tournament list, I'll be playing in a casual scene, my main question is have I accidentally overlooked some rule and made an illegal army? If there is something in this list that is super cheesy, or it's a list that's so bad it's unplayable, advice would also be appreciated.

I liked the idea of a wych cult that captured some wraithlords and tortured them/made them fight in the arena for so long they went crazy, so that's what I themed the list around. My idea was to gum up my enemies shooting first turn with the reavers, then get the wyches stuck into the low value targets, the wraithlords into the tough targets and the succubi into the characters. The 20 man wych unit will deep strike with the stratagem, and I've taken a stratagem for an extra relic. We're also all playing battle forged, so that's what I've tried to do. It'll also be fairly cheap (For Drukhari) with 3 start collecting boxes

Battalion
Obsession – Only the Strong will Survive

HQ
Succubus – Warlord (Treacherous Deceiver)
Hydra Gauntlets, Traitor’s Embrace
Venom (Splinter Cannon x 2, Bladevanes) 129

Succubus
Shardnet and Impaler
Venom (Splinter Cannon x 2, Bladevanes) 133

Troops
Wyches x 10
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 7 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 176

Wyches x 10
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 7 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 176

Wyches x 20
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 17 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol) 176

Outrider
Obsession – The Speed of the Kill

HQ
Succubus
Splinter Pistol, The Blood Glaive
Venom (Splinter Cannon x 2, Bladevanes) 125

Fast Attack
Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Spearhead
Attribute – Stoic Endurance

HQ
Wraithseer
Ghostspear, D-Cannon 135

Heavy Support
Wraithlord
Ghostglaive, Flamer x 2 102

Wraithlord
Ghostglaive, Flamer x 2 102

Wraithlord
Ghostglaive, Flamer x 2 102

Total 1500

I would recommend some more long range shooting. Perhaps you could give some weapons to the Wraithlords?

You're also very close to a full brigade. Do you think you could switch those wraithlords into Talos and just convert them from wraithlords?

The wyches are your best tar pit but they also want to be scoring objectives (which they can if they outnumber obsec troops on an objective or are holding a non-obsec unit on an objective) so maybe re-think your role for the Reavers.

OK, so updated list below. I made the Wraithlords the shooty variant, and changed my craftworld attribute to support that. I needed a few extra points, so I dropped a venom from the sharnet succubus, figuring she can hang back to pin down anything that tries to engage the wraithlords and stop them shooting. this left me ~70 points, I was tossing up between incubi and mandrakes for those points, I went with incubi because I like the models better. They can ride in a venom, which means the other two succubi have to ride together. I didn't turn it into a brigade, because if I did I'd lose my obsessions, no heavy support options for wych cult

Battalion – 850
Obsession – Only the Strong will Survive

HQ
Succubus – Warlord (Treacherous Deceiver)
Hydra Gauntlets, Traitor’s Embrace
Venom – (Splinter Cannon, Twin Splinter rifle, Bladevanes) 119

Succubus
Shardnet and Impaler 58

Troops
Wyches x 10
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 7 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 176

Wyches x 10
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 7 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 176

Wyches x 20
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 17 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol) 176

Elites
Incubi x 5
Klaive x 4, Demiklaive
Venom (Splinter Cannon x 2, Bladevanes) 145

Outrider – 194
Obsession – The Speed of the Kill

HQ
Succubus
Splinter Pistol, The Blood Glaive 50

Fast Attack
Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Spearhead – 453
Attribute – Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

HQ
Wraithseer
Ghostspear, D-Cannon 135

Heavy Support
Wraithlord
Starcannon x 2, Shuriken Catapult x 2 106

Wraithlord
Starcannon x 2, Shuriken Catapult x 2 106

Wraithlord
Starcannon x 2, Shuriken Catapult x 2 106

1497

I played solid DE for 18 months in this edition, and still include ravagers in my mostly eldar lists for the current league. My tournament win/loss rate isn't good. Still, I'll impart some advice.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Obsession – Only the Strong will Survive

Most call it Cursed Blade. Best choice though.

Armouredturtle wrote:
HQ
Succubus – Warlord (Treacherous Deceiver)
Hydra Gauntlets, Traitor’s Embrace

The Traitor's Embrace is actually a meh relic. I'd save your CP and not bother.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Venom – (Splinter Cannon, Twin Splinter rifle, Bladevanes) 119
Succubus Shardnet and Impaler 58

I found that 1 or 2 succubi usually could not take on more than an average 4W, T4 character, with an invuln, and most enemies have one. I found Succubi to serve in the mostly supportive roll of reroll . Although, I would give one of them the 2" extra move. She would maneuver to a non-LOS charge path and tie up targets so the other girls could avoid Overwatch.

You choosing the ShardNet/Imp is a good idea. I used an Archite Glaive that had more power than an agonizer, more power to wound and nastier -3AP. I stopped fielding girls last October with the serious advent of Primaris. If I were to bring them out again, I'd give the succubi a Shard Net/Imp for the 2 damage capacity, and to keep the filthy power armor where I want them ... right between the girls' thighs.

Good call, sir.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Troops
Wyches x 10
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 7 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 176
Wyches x 10
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 7 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 176
Wyches x 20
Shardnet and Impaler, 2 x Hydra Gauntlets, 17 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol) 176

Instead of Hydra Gs, I'd take all Shard Net/Imp, again, for the 2 damage it would give the girls, plus its tarpit ability. And Spess Muhreens are 2 wounders now, with no one fielding the 1 wounder variety.

I would field the two units with 9 girls (I did so for a very long time) and have a succubi ride with each. I know you'll lose a ShardNet/Special toy each, but it'll free up the one venom, which will be a juicy target to the enemy if it only has 2 HQs in it.

Combat drugs:
Assign combat drugs as +1S unit 1, +1WS unit 2 and +1A to the 20 girl crew. +2" Move & +1T to the succubi. 3rd succubus gets Ld.

I worked out the math hammer over a year ago; iirc S4 girls (Cursed Blade), with 4 attacks, standard, then Hyperstyming for 5 attacks, packed the best wallop in most cases. Instead of going with S5 girls and then Hyperstyming them for S6.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Incubi x 5
Klaive x 4, Demiklaive

I have no input on Inks. I don't own any.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Outrider – 194
Obsession – The Red Grief
HQ Succubus Splinter Pistol, The Blood Glaive 50
Fast Attack
Reavers x 3 3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48
Reavers x 3 3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48
Reavers x 3 3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Sorry that I have no input on Reavers as I don't own any.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Spearhead – 453
Attribute – Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

HQ
Wraithseer
Ghostspear, D-Cannon 135
Heavy Support
Wraithlord Starcannon x 2, Shuriken Catapult x 2 106
Wraithlord Starcannon x 2, Shuriken Catapult x 2 106
Wraithlord Starcannon x 2, Shuriken Catapult x 2

I'd trade out the cats and go back to flamers. They won't do too much to flyers, but they're better than catapults; 6d6 worth of flamers at Hard-To-Hit flyers *might* help. And there are a lot of flying ships out there.

Overall, WLs struggle now because of the hard meta shift that happened almost 2 years ago when Castellan Knights hit. Every list became capable of downing a T8, 24/28 wound target. With an Invulnerable save, of which these poor lads do not have, 'cept the W'seer. Still, you're not looking to go tourney stomping, but you might find these guys picked off alarmingly fast.

If you have 2 points, Shock Prows on Raiders are a nice touch.

Also, in your first post, you mentioned a term ... "cheesy" ?

I have played since 4e, so I know what you meant, but really, these days, after the madness that was 6e, 'Cheesy' no longer has relevance nor meaning. Play what's good.

Since you missed 6e, I will describe 6th edition as Dexter's season 2 g/f, Lila. A fun, crazy, 'mad', exhilarating ride, but one you knew ultimately had to end, and it was gonna end badly.

Well, Brother has already given you very good advice.

The list mainly consists of Wych Cult and Wraithlords.
Wych Cult is the weakest when compared with Coven and Kabal,
and Wraithlords are meh, as they are too slow and their damage output is too low.
Not a good prospect.

Sounds like the general consensus is the list needs way more teeth. So I took it back to the drawing board, here's the new version with constructive criticism taken on board. Brother - good pick! I did play 4th edition! Glad to hear that cheese isn't really a thing anymore.

I'm pretty determined to stick with wych cult, so here we go.

Battalion – 706
Cult of the Cursed Blade

HQ
Succubus – Warlord (Treacherous Deceiver)
Shardnet and Impaler 58

Succubus
Shardnet and Impaler 58

Troops
Wyches x 9
Shardnet and Impaler, 9 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow, Bladevanes) 161

Wyches x 9
Shardnet and Impaler, 9 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow, Bladevanes) 161

Wyches x 20
Shardnet and Impaler, Hydra Gauntlets x 2, 17 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol) 176

Fast Attack
Scourges x 5
Haywire Blaster x 4, Shardcarbine 92


Outrider – 549
Cult of the Red Grief

HQ
Succubus
Splinter Pistol, The Blood Glaive
Venom (Splinter Cannon, Twin Splinter Rifle, Bladevanes) 115

Fast Attack
Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Flyer
Razorwing Jetfighter
2 x Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles 145

Razorwing Jetfighter
2 x Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles 145

Vanguard – 245
Masque of the Dreaming Shadow

HQ
Shadowseer
Miststave, Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher, Shuriken Pistol 110

Elites
Death Jester
Shrieker Cannon 45

Death Jester
Shrieker Cannon 45

Death Jester
Shrieker Cannon 45

1500

I initially intended to give the Scourges Blasters, but didn't have the points. I also didn't have the points for 3 S+Is in the big blob of wyches, hence only one and 2 hyrda gauntlets. I could swap the 2 gauntlets for 1 S+I

Armouredturtle wrote:
Flyer
Razorwing Jetfighter
2 x Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles 145

Razorwing Jetfighter
2 x Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles 145

These tend to put in good work.

Armouredturtle wrote:
I initially intended to give the Scourges Blasters, but didn't have the points.

Haywire are the better guns these days, as blasters have too much variable in damage. I fielded TrueBorn with Blasters for many months and they ran Hot or Cold, rarely, middling.

Armouredturtle wrote:
Vanguard – 245
Masque of the Dreaming Shadow

HQ
Shadowseer Miststave, Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher, Shuriken Pistol 110
Elites
Death Jester Shrieker Cannon 45
Death Jester Shrieker Cannon 45
Death Jester Shrieker Cannon 45
I also didn't have the points for 3 S+Is in the big blob of wyches, hence only one and 2 hyrda gauntlets. I could swap the 2 gauntlets for 1 S+I

If you're going to field harlies, you ought to change one of the DJs into a Solitaire. The ShadowSeer uses TwighLight Pathways on a Solitaire, who then wrecks characters and can pretty much go anywhere on the board in one Move & Charge. Cegorach's Rose is the go to Relic; I'd take it over the Blood Glaive.

When I played all DE, I fielded 3 units of Scourges, with haywire (2k point list). I'd take 3 of these over the Reavers, which admittedly, I'm none-too-familiar.

Sounds like I'm getting warmer. Here are some more touch ups:

Battalion – 622
Cult of the Cursed Blade

HQ
Succubus
Shardnet and Impaler 58

Succubus
Shardnet and Impaler 58

Troops
Wyches x 9
Shardnet and Impaler, 9 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 160

Wyches x 8
Shardnet and Impaler, 8 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol)
Raider (Disintegrator Cannon, Bladevanes) 152

Wyches x 20
Shardnet and Impaler x 2, Hydra Gauntlets, 17 x (Hekatarii Blades, Splinter pistol) 184



Outrider – 580
Cult of the Cursed Blade

HQ
Succubus
Shardnet + Impaler 58

Fast Attack
Scourges x 5
Haywire Blaster x 4, Shardcarbine 92

Scourges x 5
Haywire Blaster x 4, Shardcarbine 92

Reavers x 3
3 x (Splinter Rifle, Bladevane, Splinter Pistol) 48

Flyer
Razorwing Jetfighter
2 x Disintegrator Cannons, Splinter Cannon, Razorwing Missiles 155

Razorwing Jetfighter
2 x Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles 145

Vanguard – 298
Masque of the Dreaming Shadow

HQ
Shadowseer (Warlord – Player of the Twilight)
Miststave, Hallucinogen Grenade Launcher, Shuriken Pistol 110

Elites
Death Jester
Shrieker Cannon 45

Death Jester
Shrieker Cannon 45

Solitaire
Cegorach’s Rose, Harlequin’s Caress 98

1500

honestly, I think your first list was fine for a casual gaming group, I dunno. Personally, I love fielding "the stuckubus" with a shardnet and impaler+traitors embrace.

If I win, I win! if you win, I win! hahahahaahah! It's very Dark Eldar.

Honestly...I don't even bother deep striking wyches at this point. With cursed blade? Just fething run them at people. They've got the equivalent of a 5+ invulnerable save with their 2 6+ save thingies, totally immune to morale, you can make them 10" move with combat drugs, and your opponent is probably going to be distracted by your reavers. The big issue that I see with the first list is the wraiths not having a whole heck of a lot of support.

If I were designing it around your chosen theme, I'd take a couple wraithlords and run them totally bare-bones, nothing but a glaive and some shuricats, and then a big unit of axe wraithguard and a spiritseer, and I'd convert the spiritseer into a dark eldar taskmaster with some kind of special wraith torture device. Run them with the power Quicken/Restrain, and have them make the wraithguard double move up the field in the first turn. Run them as Iyanden so you can take the psychotrope and have that be their bezerk killing frenzy.

the_scotsman wrote:
With cursed blade? Just fething run them at people. They've got the equivalent of a 5+ invulnerable save with their 2 6+ save thingies, totally immune to morale, you can make them 10" move with combat drugs, and your opponent is probably going to be distracted by your reavers. The big issue that I see with the first list is the wraiths not having a whole heck of a lot of support.

Not directed at you personally, the_scotsman, but this is not good advice. Having fielded girls for so long, and experiencing SM fire power lately, IH, DA & Ultra, etc, a 20 pack of girls will easily get vaporized on foot. 6++, 6+++ is almost an equivalent 5+ invuln. And one third survival is just bad odds anyhow.

Your math is good.
20 girls, lets round to 18 to get more accurate math in thirds. They get hit with say a wound each, 18. With their 6+ Invuln, 3 live. Out of the 15 dead, ~2.5 live on Power from Pain. 5.5 live.

18 girls with a 5++, 18 wounds, 6 live.

Not much difference, but Power From Pain and their 6+are too thin, even half a body off of each calculation. Because at the end of their let's say succssefull charge, you've only got 6 girls, and they're now down to tarpit function, instead of a 20 girl sledge hammer, that with Hyperstymm Backlash, can do in most things, aside from T8 targets.

ArmouredTurtle, maybe time to start spending money.

 Brothererekose wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
With cursed blade? Just fething run them at people. They've got the equivalent of a 5+ invulnerable save with their 2 6+ save thingies, totally immune to morale, you can make them 10" move with combat drugs, and your opponent is probably going to be distracted by your reavers. The big issue that I see with the first list is the wraiths not having a whole heck of a lot of support.

Not directed at you personally, the_scotsman, but this is not good advice. Having fielded girls for so long, and experiencing SM fire power lately, IH, DA & Ultra, etc, a 20 pack of girls will easily get vaporized on foot. 6++, 6+++ is almost an equivalent 5+ invuln. And one third survival is just bad odds anyhow.

Your math is good.
20 girls, lets round to 18 to get more accurate math in thirds. They get hit with say a wound each, 18. With their 6+ Invuln, 3 live. Out of the 15 dead, ~2.5 live on Power from Pain. 5.5 live.

18 girls with a 5++, 18 wounds, 6 live.

Not much difference, but Power From Pain and their 6+are too thin, even half a body off of each calculation. Because at the end of their let's say succssefull charge, you've only got 6 girls, and they're now down to tarpit function, instead of a 20 girl sledge hammer, that with Hyperstymm Backlash, can do in most things, aside from T8 targets.

ArmouredTurtle, maybe time to start spending money.

The title of the post mentions casual games. If you're talking about how quickly 20 wyches will get vaporized by an optimized IH gunline...not a super casual game, is it?

You want to deep strike the wyches if your opponent is playing a list with a ton of super long range anti-infantry firepower. Which, despite what the dominant competitive SM lists might have you believe, isn't USUALLY super common.You can deep strike them and try to get them in turn 2, but that's only going to have about a 58% success rate with PFP reroll charges...not super great.

Thanks for the advice guys, I might go out and start buying