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Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






I put my first attack into a character and the rest into another unit, the first attacks kills the character, the character uses the Orks is Never Beaten Stratagem "Use this Stratagem when an ORK CHARACTER model from your army is slain. That model is not removed from the battlefield as normal, and can immediately either shoot as if it were your Shooting phase, or fight as if it were the Fight phase. The slain model is then removed from the battlefield." These attacks destroy my attacking unit. Does my unit get to finish the rest of their attacks against the other unit?
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

It depends whether you fast rolled, or not. With fast rolling you make all attacks and all wound rolls first. Once all those are rolled, its done, there is no going back. Then the opponent makes saving throws, and damage is applied. If the ork character dies, and fights with the stratagem, kills your model, the rest of your attacks and wounds are going to get resolved.

If you didnt fast roll you get interrupted and the rest of your attacks are lost. So, you should make all attacks targeting non character models first, because then you cant be interrupted by any fight immediately when a character is slain stratagem.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/22 16:54:49


 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





You cant fast roll attacks against different targets at the same time, so that's irrelevant.

You would lose the attacks against the other unit.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Stux wrote:
You cant fast roll attacks against different targets at the same time, so that's irrelevant.

You would lose the attacks against the other unit.
This. In short, plan your attacks properly.

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Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






"Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase before a NECRONS CHARACTER from your army fights. Invulnerable saves cannot be taken against the first close combat attack made by this character this phase."

No mistake was made on my part.
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission




Tacoma, WA, USA

There are multiple types of mistakes. There are rules mistakes and tactical mistakes.

In this case, if you cared more about killing the unit than the character, you made the tactical mistake of killing the character first. Otherwise, you are correct and no mistake was made, just a choice with a sub-optimal resolution.
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 alextroy wrote:
There are multiple types of mistakes. There are rules mistakes and tactical mistakes.

In this case, if you cared more about killing the unit than the character, you made the tactical mistake of killing the character first. Otherwise, you are correct and no mistake was made, just a choice with a sub-optimal resolution.

I killed my opponent's WL, the other unit was a less important character that would have killed me as well, the alternative would have been putting all my attacks into the WL for 0CP and dying from the second character. Doing what I did forced my opponent to spend 2CP to save his character where I spent 1 to threaten his second character. I knew the fight at death Stratagem existed, I'd just never considered how it worked with splitting attacks. I rolled for the attacks on the other character and didn't finish it off. My community couldn't find an FAQ that said I could complete my attacks so we just ignored the wounds I'd done to the second character and I killed it in my next turn from full wounds.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

You're supposed to complete all our your attacks against one unit before starting on any attacks that target another unit. Ie: if you split attacks between units A and B, and then roll to hit against unit A, you have to complete the entire attack sequence to "allocate damage" before you roll to hit unit B. That seems to be the issue from what I see.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

As the others have been saying, from the second paragraph under 'Choose Targets' (page 182 of the Main Rulebook):

If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see right), it can split them between eligible target units as you wish. Similarly if a unit contains more than one model, each can target a different enemy unit. In either case, declare how you will split the unit’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving on to the next.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Ghaz wrote:
As the others have been saying, from the second paragraph under 'Choose Targets' (page 182 of the Main Rulebook):

If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see right), it can split them between eligible target units as you wish. Similarly if a unit contains more than one model, each can target a different enemy unit. In either case, declare how you will split the unit’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving on to the next.
FWIW the Errata actually changes that last sentence.
Page 182 – Choose Targets
Change the third sentence of the second paragraph
to read:
‘In either case, at the same time that you choose targets
for the unit’s close combat attacks, you must declare
how you will split the unit’s close combat attacks; then
resolve all attacks against one target before moving on
to the next.’

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+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

If you get killed you don’t get to finish unrolled attacks. As others have said, choosing your target priority order wisely is key.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






………..

Let me make sure im getting this clear.

You picked your C'tan or Overlord to fight first?

Said you were splitting your attacks up and used the strat to put your first attack into the orc?

He fights and kills your guy and claims you don't get the rest of your attacks?




If its one model swinging, it does get to finish its attacks even it its dead. He was chosen to fight and he gets to make all his attacks, even if he dies in the middle of them.

They all go off at the same time, you just literally have to roll them separately because "reality" is a thing.

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Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Eihnlazer wrote:
………..

Let me make sure im getting this clear.

You picked your C'tan or Overlord to fight first?

Said you were splitting your attacks up and used the strat to put your first attack into the orc?

He fights and kills your guy and claims you don't get the rest of your attacks?




If its one model swinging, it does get to finish its attacks even it its dead. He was chosen to fight and he gets to make all his attacks, even if he dies in the middle of them.

They all go off at the same time, you just literally have to roll them separately because "reality" is a thing.

One Destroyer Lord fighting two enemy characters, splitting attacks between two characters, after killing the first he dies and the rest of his attacks are lost as he is dead. You claim they are not lost, got a source for that? I'm guessing it's because the attacks have already been declared and nothing says not to resolve them, so you resolve them?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 08:53:24


 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 Eihnlazer wrote:

If its one model swinging, it does get to finish its attacks even it its dead. He was chosen to fight and he gets to make all his attacks, even if he dies in the middle of them.

They all go off at the same time, you just literally have to roll them separately because "reality" is a thing.


Citation please.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





They dont go off at the same time. Nothing happens at the same time in this game. If it would, sequencing stops it from happening at the same time.

If you're dead, you stop making attacks.
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Stux wrote:
They dont go off at the same time. Nothing happens at the same time in this game. If it would, sequencing stops it from happening at the same time.

If you're dead, you stop making attacks.

Quote on that? The attacks have already been declared, what makes them disappear?
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I coulda sworn there was an FAQ about a unit being slain by MWs caused by rolling 1s with a Melta and not being able to finish their other attacks, but I couldn't find it.

Regardless, I agree that a dead unit cannot attack anything.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 vict0988 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
They dont go off at the same time. Nothing happens at the same time in this game. If it would, sequencing stops it from happening at the same time.

If you're dead, you stop making attacks.

Quote on that? The attacks have already been declared, what makes them disappear?


Why would declaring them mean you definitely get to use them? We can play the asking for citation game all day. But the default position is you cant do it unless the game says you can.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 vict0988 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
They dont go off at the same time. Nothing happens at the same time in this game. If it would, sequencing stops it from happening at the same time.

If you're dead, you stop making attacks.

Quote on that? The attacks have already been declared, what makes them disappear?


Being dead and therefore not being able to attack further. You have been removed as a casualty before making the other attacks.
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Stux wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
They dont go off at the same time. Nothing happens at the same time in this game. If it would, sequencing stops it from happening at the same time.

If you're dead, you stop making attacks.

Quote on that? The attacks have already been declared, what makes them disappear?


Why would declaring them mean you definitely get to use them? We can play the asking for citation game all day. But the default position is you cant do it unless the game says you can.

3. Choose Targets
First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of another model from its own unit that is itself within 1" of that enemy unit. This represents the unit fighting in two ranks. Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase.

If a model can make more than one close combat attack (see right), it can split them between eligible target units as you wish. Similarly if a unit contains more than one model, each can target a different enemy unit. In either case, declare how you will split the unit’s close combat attacks before any dice are rolled, and resolve all attacks against one target before moving on to the next.

Number of Attacks
The number of close combat attacks a model makes against its target is determined by its Attacks characteristic. You roll one dice for each close combat attack being made. For example, if a model has an Attacks characteristic of 2, it can make 2 close combat attacks and you can therefore roll 2 dice.

4. Choose Melee Weapon
Each time a model makes a close combat attack, it uses a melee weapon – the weapons a model is equipped with are described on its datasheet.

If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

5. Resolve Close Combat Attacks
Close combat attacks can be made one at a time, or in some cases you can roll the dice for a number of attacks together. The attack sequence for making close combat attacks is identical to that used for shooting attacks except you use the model’s Weapon Skill characteristic instead of its Ballistic Skill to make hit rolls.

Rules for resolving attacks:

4. Resolve Attacks
Attacks can be made one at a time, or, in some cases, you can roll for multiple attacks together. The following sequence is used to make attacks one at a time:

1) Hit Roll
Each time a model makes an attack, roll a dice. If the roll is equal to or greater than the attacking model’s Ballistic Skill characteristic, then it scores a hit with the weapon it is using. If not, the attack fails and the attack sequence ends. A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply.

The rules tells me to split attacks, then it tells me to roll to hit for the attacks, by not rolling to hit I am breaking the rules right?
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

If your unit is destroyed, it is removed from the board. If it's removed from the board, it is no longer within range to engage in CQC. Therefore, it cannot complete those attacks, as it's become an invalid target.
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 flandarz wrote:
If your unit is destroyed, it is removed from the board. If it's removed from the board, it is no longer within range to engage in CQC. Therefore, it cannot complete those attacks, as it's become an invalid target.

Range was measured when my attacks were declared, the same thing as killing more models than you can see in the shooting phase, range is not an argument.
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Livermore, Ca

 vict0988 wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
If your unit is destroyed, it is removed from the board. If it's removed from the board, it is no longer within range to engage in CQC. Therefore, it cannot complete those attacks, as it's become an invalid target.

Range was measured when my attacks were declared, the same thing as killing more models than you can see in the shooting phase, range is not an argument.



If your model is removed as a casualty, you need to consult the rules for models that are not in play. GW has said they have no affect unless they FAQ otherwise... such as the booby trap from the kroot dahyak grekh. So the dead C'tan, now immediately follows the rules for not being in play before continuing attacks and therefore we learn, the attack sequence must end (immediately).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/24 16:09:47


 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

 vict0988 wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
If your unit is destroyed, it is removed from the board. If it's removed from the board, it is no longer within range to engage in CQC. Therefore, it cannot complete those attacks, as it's become an invalid target.

Range was measured when my attacks were declared, the same thing as killing more models than you can see in the shooting phase, range is not an argument.


The argument is that your unit is no longer on the battlefield. Once its removed it cant do anything anymore.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From the Warhammer 40,000 Main Rulebook:

If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain or destroyed and removed from play.

Why are you trying to keep the model in play once it's wounds are reduced to 0?

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 p5freak wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
If your unit is destroyed, it is removed from the board. If it's removed from the board, it is no longer within range to engage in CQC. Therefore, it cannot complete those attacks, as it's become an invalid target.

Range was measured when my attacks were declared, the same thing as killing more models than you can see in the shooting phase, range is not an argument.


The argument is that your unit is no longer on the battlefield. Once its removed it cant do anything anymore.

No the argument was the attack was not in range, not that the model was removed and was unable to do anything.
 Sazzlefrats wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
If your unit is destroyed, it is removed from the board. If it's removed from the board, it is no longer within range to engage in CQC. Therefore, it cannot complete those attacks, as it's become an invalid target.

Range was measured when my attacks were declared, the same thing as killing more models than you can see in the shooting phase, range is not an argument.



If your model is removed as a casualty, you need to consult the rules for models that are not in play. GW has said they have no affect unless they FAQ otherwise... such as the booby trap from the kroot dahyak grekh. So the dead C'tan, now immediately follows the rules for not being in play before continuing attacks and therefore we learn, the attack sequence must end (immediately).

Can you find any FAQ that says anything about models not in play not being able to do anything? I've gone through the CA FAQs, the main rulebook FAQ, the new edition FAQ and I cannot find anything related to this.
 Ghaz wrote:
From the Warhammer 40,000 Main Rulebook:

If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain or destroyed and removed from play.

Why are you trying to keep the model in play once it's wounds are reduced to 0?

Why does it need to be in play to make the attacks? The attacks have been declared, they must be carried out right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/24 16:25:31


 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission




Tacoma, WA, USA

Wrong. You'll notice that all the rules that allow a killed model to do something when they die start by telling you to not remove the model from play, take the action, and then remove the model from play.
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 alextroy wrote:
Wrong. You'll notice that all the rules that allow a killed model to do something when they die start by telling you to not remove the model from play, take the action, and then remove the model from play.

Unhelpful, I was aware that's how all these rules and rules like explosion is worded, doesn't answer my question and doesn't help me convince my community with any related FAQs.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 vict0988 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
From the Warhammer 40,000 Main Rulebook:

If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain or destroyed and removed from play.

Why are you trying to keep the model in play once it's wounds are reduced to 0?

Why does it need to be in play to make the attacks? The attacks have been declared, they must be carried out right?


In order for the model to be doing anything it has to be in play, unless there are special rules involved specifying it does things when not in play. The attacks have been declared, but when it comes time to choose the weapon for the attacks (and all subsequent steps). the model has been removed from play, so is not eligible for selecting weapons, making hit rolls, etc. "Remove from play" means exactly that, remove it from play and all the associated things (like attacking) that go with being in play.

Just because an attack is declared doesn't mean the attack is automatically carried through. Circumstances can negate the declaration. The model dying before completing the actions is one thing. Another would be the model attacking a unit with multiple weapons; if the target unit died after the first set of weapons was resolved, it wouldn't attack with the second set because the target unit has been removed from play.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 vict0988 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
From the Warhammer 40,000 Main Rulebook:

If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain or destroyed and removed from play.

Why are you trying to keep the model in play once it's wounds are reduced to 0?

Why does it need to be in play to make the attacks? The attacks have been declared, they must be carried out right?

Because making attacks (and everything else the model can do in the game) is because the model is in play. A dead model is no more in play than a model you happened to bring along and was not included in your army.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
 
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