Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've finally got round painting the new Jain Zar from Blood of the Phoenix.
Now I'm really looking at the model in detail, has she been redesigned with the Ynarri in mind? With the Yncarne having the hermaphroditic appearance am I crazy to see some of that in the new Jain Zar sculpt?
She has her right breast armoured but normally...shaped, for lack of a better term. Her left breast is armour plated giving it a much flatter appearance, hence the hermaphroditic look, at least to my eye. Her whole left arm is more heavily armoured to be fair so maybe I'm reading too much into it but she has thrown her lot in with the Ynarri so maybe there's something to it?

The armor scheme matches her original sculpt. IIRC she does favor the Ynarri in the fluff, I’m not getting any signs from the new model.

YYMV, IMHO, etc.

Edit, added pics of the new/old sculpts. Excuse the paintjob on the old one, it’s probably older then you are...

From the look of it I’d assume it’s more functional than it suggests.
Lunging with her blade means it’s only her armoured side exposed.

Her throwing weapon arm (for lack of a better term) has more movement due to the lesser amount of armour.


I may be over thinking it, but that’s my take on it anyway.

GW has stepped their game on including and representing women in their games [IMHO].

Many of the female sculpts are more muscular, and equipped for battle. It's a fine line between encouraging more women and girls to play these games because they feel included and catering to the fantasies of the man who make up most of the player base, but I think GW is doing a pretty decent job.

I was initally reluctant to accept the new Sisters Repentia; many other Sisters players expressed similar points of view. Heck, I even bought the full set of NSFW Repentia from Wargames Exclusive for home use, and I plan on getting the Raging Heroes War Pulpit and maybe even the Davidians.

BUT I am now fully behind the new Repentia; they are the most aggressive and deadly looking of all the Repentia/ pseudo-Repentia I've mentioned here, and if I had a daughter who played sisters, these are the sculpts I would buy for her. I mean, if she liked the other ones, she'd be free to go ahead and buy them, but the current GW sculpt is the one that gets the "Dad seal of approval."

To get back to JayZee and her attitude toward Ynarri, I do think she will be the first Phoenix Lord to go Ynarri- she does get involved with the Ynarri in PA, but legal, she still can't join Ynarri detachments [though of course, Yvraine is free to fight in JZ's detachment].

I think you're seeing things because you want concerning the new sculpt. All it is is a really good re-sculpt of the original.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new model! It is a great update.
Like I said, I'm probably over analysing the whole thing, just wondered what others thought.

I wondered if they kept the Jersey Girl hair, I never once thought they'd doubled down on it.

I do not see anything wrong either. In fact I think GW has done a better job of sculpting female armor that isn't designed to enhance size and shape to be crude.

@KidKyoto: Thanks for updating your icon. I feel a lot safer in this forum now.

edwardmyst wrote:


@KidKyoto: Thanks for updating your icon. I feel a lot safer in this forum now.

Running full virus protection!

I believe you are correct about the more hemephrodite appearance, and I do think it is a nod to her/him fighting for the Ynarri now*.

Moreover, the two things that stick out to me is 1) her crest is now the banshee rune instead of a screaming face and 2) her official color scheme has gone from black to white. Not sure on why the change for either, but my guess the color change was to both bring her more in line with other banshees and represent a change of attitude from death to life. Maaaybe also to get away from the "dark elf" = banshee lore borrowed from D&D.

* There's old lore that there are male banshees, and lore hinting even from old pre-PA that the current phoenix lords aren't the original - others may have taken up the suit along the way and assumed the identity with conciousness of the originals subsuming the mind of the current wearer.

 Stormonu wrote:
I believe you are correct about the more hemephrodite appearance, and I do think it is a nod to her/him fighting for the Ynarri now*.

Moreover, the two things that stick out to me is 1) her crest is now the banshee rune instead of a screaming face and 2) her official color scheme has gone from black to white. Not sure on why the change for either, but my guess the color change was to both bring her more in line with other banshees and represent a change of attitude from death to life. Maaaybe also to get away from the "dark elf" = banshee lore borrowed from D&D.

* There's old lore that there are male banshees, and lore hinting even from old pre-PA that the current phoenix lords aren't the original - others may have taken up the suit along the way and assumed the identity with conciousness of the originals subsuming the mind of the current wearer.

The Eldar tend to be more gender fluid to use a modern term. Banshees and Wyches can be male.
You're also correct about the suits taking over the bodies of other Eldar if the Pheonix lord is killed. The Path of the Eldar novels describes a striking scorpion Exarch being subsumed into Karandras, for example.

Edit: Jain Zar is definitely female, however.

Banshees are white because ghosts are often depicted as being white or translucent.

I never read anywhere that Banshees are the ghosts of men. However, male ghosts are often wraiths.

I like the model. It will probably cost 30 Euros.

PenitentJake wrote:
GW has stepped their game on including and representing women in their games [IMHO].

Many of the female sculpts are more muscular, and equipped for battle. It's a fine line between encouraging more women and girls to play these games because they feel included

It's 2020 and there are still some people thinking like that. Wow.
Because in a game of aliens, deamons, and modified humans, girls only want to play with models with boobs. Ofc.
No guy play Sister for example

I go to a sports school, so maybe are more lenitent as far as looks or muscle on female models go. But there are grades to everything. There is being fit, or ultra fit, and there is the cannones that looks like Samuel Jackson in a wig.

But maybe it is just GW being unable to make good faces for models in general. It is not like their guy faces are much better.
It just matters less, because no one expects a marine, specialy a chaos one, to look good.

 godardc wrote:
Because in a game of aliens, deamons, and modified humans, girls only want to play with models with boobs. Ofc.

Maybe you should talk to some women gamers*. The endless parade of all-male factions is certainly off-putting to some. Almost every female gamer I know plays either Tyranids or some flavour of elves/eldar. I've never met a woman who plays Space Marines.

* (Obviously wait until after the pandemic is over, though...)

I think the idea that armies should be tailored to a specific sex is very stupid. what next, race, age or sexuality. If your X you can or can't play army Z. Doesn't matter what the model represents, it can be a chaos spawn. If it is a good model, it is a good model. But bad models are just bad, and that is all.
Same goes with quality of rules and codex art, or lore.

I think it is odd that when ever someone says they don't like a movie or book, then this somehow is proof they want women, men, kids or what be treated bad or that you are an insm of some sort. You can't just not like something or find it stupid.

 Duskweaver wrote:

Maybe you should talk to some women gamers*. The endless parade of all-male factions is certainly off-putting to some. Almost every female gamer I know plays either Tyranids or some flavour of elves/eldar. I've never met a woman who plays Space Marines.

* (Obviously wait until after the pandemic is over, though...)

Yup, I'm sure there are millions of potential women gamers out there just waiting on a Primaris Boob upgrade sprue.

I am not sure, I am following you. How do we jump from GW being unable, most of the time, to sculpt good faces on male or female models, and requiring boobs on primaris?

I feel it is similar to people wanting good rules, being told they want everything be top 8 tables of biggest world events.

More of an aside, but I'm reminded of a short exchange I saw a while back in one of the wishlisting threads:

"I want female heads for my Imperial Guard."

"I want female heads for my Sisters of Battle."

I think it's less "make the female model more hermaphroditic" and more "gw has actually scaled their models slightly more to what humans are proportioned like".

Old jains breasts are like 75% of the size of the rest of her torso. Repeating that scale on a modern model would look as ridiculous as the catachan Shoulder to Head Ratio.

I've now finished painting her and if I had one criticism of her it's that she's a little too chunky from the waist down, for an aeldari anyway. It's certainly not a deal breaker but she's not as lithe as I'd like personally.

Before painting: shes hermaphrodite

after painting: too thicc

pick 1.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Before painting: shes hermaphrodite

after painting: too thicc

pick 1.

I believe I made an observation that she may have been designed with a nod to the ynarri, no criticism involved, just wanted to see if I was imagining it.
I do think the sculpt is maybe a bit more human looking than aeldari, not a big criticism either, as I stated earlier I think it's a great redesign.
Hope that clarifies things for you or do I need to justify myself some more?

I think the point in having *good * female representation is somewhat missed when reduced to a "faction/model XYZ is being made for the girls".
Women may or may not be attracted to the game and want to play Sisters or whatever. The gender-matching is not exactly the point. It's more that the models of women that do exist shouldn't be cheesecake-y, objectified representations. Bad-ass female elf should be proportioned and like one - and I think they're pretty successful in this case. The new sisters are also really well done, I think. They're soliders, not pin-ups. Though the official paints jobs could maybe use a rethink on how they're shading those faces.

I think that both the Kabalite and Wych models are very good in that respect.

The issue I have with the new sculpt is more the upsizing of the hair compared to the old. The old seemed to have hair that was almost but not quite touching the ground, if Jain Zar were standing. The new hair is of such ridiculous length, longer than she is tall, that it seems she would be dragging it along the ground like a wedding train when standing or walking/running.

rbstr wrote:
I think the point in having *good * female representation is somewhat missed when reduced to a "faction/model XYZ is being made for the girls".
Women may or may not be attracted to the game and want to play Sisters or whatever. The gender-matching is not exactly the point. It's more that the models of women that do exist shouldn't be cheesecake-y, objectified representations.

I think this is reasonable to an extent.

The problem is that this rule has also been applied to armies where it makes no sense. For example, Daemonettes are supposed to be alluring. They're basically the incarnations of lust, yet they were instead turned into ugly, single-boob banshee things.

Have you ever seen a lady wearing a bullet proof vest? They don't really accentuate cleavage, I think it's fair say the same about scifi body armour

 vipoid wrote:

rbstr wrote:
I think the point in having *good * female representation is somewhat missed when reduced to a "faction/model XYZ is being made for the girls".
Women may or may not be attracted to the game and want to play Sisters or whatever. The gender-matching is not exactly the point. It's more that the models of women that do exist shouldn't be cheesecake-y, objectified representations.

I think this is reasonable to an extent.

The problem is that this rule has also been applied to armies where it makes no sense. For example, Daemonettes are supposed to be alluring. They're basically the incarnations of lust, yet they were instead turned into ugly, single-boob banshee things.

When were they not ugly?

pm713 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

rbstr wrote:
I think the point in having *good * female representation is somewhat missed when reduced to a "faction/model XYZ is being made for the girls".
Women may or may not be attracted to the game and want to play Sisters or whatever. The gender-matching is not exactly the point. It's more that the models of women that do exist shouldn't be cheesecake-y, objectified representations.

I think this is reasonable to an extent.

The problem is that this rule has also been applied to armies where it makes no sense. For example, Daemonettes are supposed to be alluring. They're basically the incarnations of lust, yet they were instead turned into ugly, single-boob banshee things.

When were they not ugly?

I know that this is probably subjective but I'd argue that (arm blades notwithstanding) the previous models really weren't ugly, with most having a 'daemonic beauty' or 'cute monster-girl' vibe to them.

It seems like there a definite effort with the previous models to at least make aspects of their faces and bodies pretty, in spite of their daemonic aspects. To my mind at least, it was a good fusion of 'daemon' and 'attractive female', with the main limit being the sculpting technology of the era.

Again, I appreciate that this is subjective but the upshot is that I can see at least some men being at least a little attracted to Daemonettes that look like this:




I have a harder time seeing men being even remotely attracted to Daemonettes that look like this: