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anything similar out there, or is it being remade?

the set costs a fortune on eBay, i played it once in my youth but it was out of production even then!

You might have more luck looking into Spartan Games' "Uncharted Seas".
It's also discontinued iirc but much more recently.

Uncharted Seas being discontinued more recently is largely irrelevant, the company no longer exists and all the stock for the product was sold out at bargain bin prices years before that even occurred, as Spartan abandoned the game well before they went out of business.

Yeah Uncharted Seas is perhaps harder to get hold of as there is way less stock out there and much of it is already held by collectors unlikely to part with it. You'll get odd gem here and there (heck I sold a force a short while back, but it was all I had); but it will be a hard hunt.
There's an added complication in that there were (roughly) two waves of models for most ranges in Uncharted. The first wave were fairly okish quality from SG and were some of their first resins so the detail is soft on the edges and not as refined. The second wave was fragmented into two sorts - some factions got full redesigns which featured not only vastly improved resin, but also more detailing. Other races just got an update on the moulds to better quality so the sculpts remained the same. SG gave Uncharted a very haphazard death and the lack of clarity on what they were updating and when (and the fact that they missed most of their own release deadlines that were made public) stifled sales significantly. Eventually it went direct order only and then died off.

Warcradle now owns all the Spartan material and have shown interest in remaking Uncharted Seas, however its taken them 3 years to get Dystopian Wars the sea game near to release (its still not released though in fairness Corona has basically scuppered their release plans for now); and there's Firestorm Armada to come before Uncharted.

I get the feeling they will get there but you could be waiting another 5 or more years.



In that time GW coming out with AoS MOW might be more likely.

You can find the Man O War rules online fairly easily.

For models, look around on historical forums who discuss Naval for leads on Bret and Empire ships. Uncharted seas would work for dwarf, elf, undead, etc. if you can find them. I've not done much research into building fleets for MoW, but I'm sure there are some hobby blogs out there, that might be able to direct you to thingverse or other places to find what you're looking for.

It'd be easy enough to replicate the cards/tokens, etc. I'd imagine there are some 3D printable files out there, and surely someone is printing/selling versions of the Man o War stuff.

Excellent game. Loved it. There are plenty of ship files for MOW on Thingiverse if you have access to a 3d printer. I also found the rules and suppliments online a while back. Downloaded them but haven't gotten around to doing anything else with it. I did find a guy recently that I got some epic stuff off of that has all of the man o war stuff. I may see if he will let me borrow it to scan.

there is also a man o war group on face book. they may have links to download stuff as well.

Nobody has mentioned Dreadfleet?

It's a stand-alone game GW made a few years back. Probably available second hand at the moment. Runs as a simple campaign where you increase and change the number of ships each game along with the narrative.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Nobody has mentioned Dreadfleet?

It's a stand-alone game GW made a few years back. Probably available second hand at the moment. Runs as a simple campaign where you increase and change the number of ships each game along with the narrative.

Unfortunately, all the copies of Dreadfleet are right next to the copies of Atari ET in a landfill somewhere

WHIMPS AND POSERS... LEAVE THE HALL!

The author of Osprey's Fighting Sail was fond of Man-O-War back in the day. Might want to have a gander at the rules...

One awesome thing about Dreadfleet was the gaming cloth. Its a shame GW doesn't sell it individually...

Dreadfleet is a poor substitute for Man O War unfortunately.

As to the OP, and as a Man O War enthusiast myself, all I can say is keep scouring eBay. Eventually, you will get lucky. I managed to land the core game and expansion packs for a reasonable price. The ships themselves are a different matter. The prices they go for on eBay are astronomical. The only real alternative is to look into 3rd party manufacturers. I found a guy in the States who sold me his not-Empire and not-Dwarf fleets. I was also fortunate enough to attend Adepticon one year and they had a OOP miniatures sale booth there where I got a Dark Elf fleet (including a Black Ark!) and a High Elf fleet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I should mention, it's worth buying several incomplete sets and merging them to make one complete set - that's what I ended up doing.

ArbitorIan wrote:Nobody has mentioned Dreadfleet?

It's a stand-alone game GW made a few years back. Probably available second hand at the moment. Runs as a simple campaign where you increase and change the number of ships each game along with the narrative.

This is by far my favorite post in the thread. I'd be like someone going into a food aficionado forum and posting a thread that says:


"Hey, I'm having trouble finding Porterhouse. Does anyone know a good way to chase down Porterhouse, or can recommend a similar steak?"

and someone comes in and posts:

"Have you tried Vienna Sausages?"



As others have said, OP, the rules are easily found online, and Thingverse files will be your easiest way to chase down ships.

Did Dreadfleet fail in that players were expecting Man O War, or that it was poor for an intended one-off all-in-the-box release like Space Hulk or Gorechosen?

Was it prey to broken rules?

SamusDrake wrote:
Did Dreadfleet fail in that players were expecting Man O War, or that it was poor for an intended one-off all-in-the-box release like Space Hulk or Gorechosen?

Was it prey to broken rules?

A little from Column A and a little from Column B. Yes, lots of people expected a Man O War 'replacement' and Dreadfleet didn't come close to that but in the main, it was just a poor game that took to long to play and was subject to hideous luck and RNG as opposed to decent strategy. I remember getting it and playing the first mission with the wife. It took hours to finish and due to the wind mechanic changing direction every turn, it meant you ended up relying on sheer luck to be able to turn, move and fire efficiently. It just wasn't very well thought-out. The cloth mat that came with it is superb though.

I think the other problem is that it didn't really have a market.

Design wise in rules it was more for wargamers; but a single box with no single armies (just one ship per "race") and without any expansions etc.. suggested that it was closer to the boardgame market. But GW marketed toward wargamers.

So it never really had a huge market. The models looked fantastic and I think there was also some bitterness that GW could tease such great models in a market area that is basically ignored (fantasy sea wargames - at that point there was really only Uncharted Seas and their sculpts were years behind in quality); but weren't willing to put any commitment behind it.
Plus unlike the random reprints of Space Hulk the game had no legacy behind it nor its rules. GW would have possibly done better with two random factions with full fleets and jus tacopy of the Man O War rules.

Its main problem is that was a bad game, plain and simple.

Strg Alt wrote:WHIMPS AND POSERS... LEAVE THE HALL!

I've not looked but Thingverse has counterparts for all of Battle Fleet Gothic so there may be a replacement for Man O War in there somewhere, if not it's worth seeing what it would take to commission it from a 3d sculptor. Probably cheaper than ebay.

I see. Sounds like it was testing the waters for a possible return to Man O War, but didn't want to commit to a full range. Hmmm...

The more I think about it, the more it seems likely that the next "Titanicus scale" game could be Man O War. The recent PC game, The Old World due to make a come back and Adeptus Titanicus liked to a naval game. Together with islands and sea monsters, there's plenty of scope for expansion.

With Warhammer Quest currently in 40K with BSF, the fantasy side of Warhammer is just Warcry, AoS and Blood Bowl and nothing for the "titanicus scale". Man O War could be the fantasy counterpart of Adeptus Titanicus, which has been well received. And of course, the Dreadfleet models still look fantastic.

SamusDrake wrote:
I see. Sounds like it was testing the waters for a possible return to Man O War, but didn't want to commit to a full range. Hmmm...

The more I think about it, the more it seems likely that the next "Titanicus scale" game could be Man O War. The recent PC game, The Old World due to make a come back and Adeptus Titanicus liked to a naval game. Together with islands and sea monsters, there's plenty of scope for expansion.

With Warhammer Quest currently in 40K with BSF, the fantasy side of Warhammer is just Warcry, AoS and Blood Bowl and nothing for the "titanicus scale". Man O War could be the fantasy counterpart of Adeptus Titanicus, which has been well received. And of course, the Dreadfleet models still look fantastic.

I don't think that it's likely. Man O War was a fairly niche game when it came out originally and despite it being a very good game, it wasn't as popular as 40K, Epic and Fantasy. If you are looking to draw parallels between the 40k and Fantasy games/universe, then the 40K equivalent of Man O War was Battlefleet Gothic. The equivalent of Adeptus Titanicus (or Epic, as was) would be Warmaster, which was the Fantasy version.

I mean in an ideal world, I would love GW to bring back BFG, Man O War and Warmaster but I think given the finite resources and production capacity, it's unlikely it will happen any time soon, although there is a slim hope BFG will re-surface at some point.

I run a small miniature company, and for the past couple of years have been compiling concepts and sculpts to release a fantasy naval wargame with miniatures useable as proxies for Man o War. The work on the rules have stalled somewhat of late though.

https://www.microworldgames.com/collections/seas-of-fate/FN_DWARF

I got as far as releasing the first fleet's worth of miniatures to use as proxies in order to fund further development.







I have 5 more fleets sculpted that have not been released yet. Being a one-man shop, I have limited resources, but a couple more fleets will likely see the light of day this year.

Orc war galey example:

thedespot29 wrote:

Those look really good. The Dwarf ships might also be good for BFG.

 filbert wrote:
The equivalent of Adeptus Titanicus (or Epic, as was) would be Warmaster, which was the Fantasy version.

I assume you are referring to the 1989 version of Adeptus Titanicus?

SamusDrake wrote:

 filbert wrote:
The equivalent of Adeptus Titanicus (or Epic, as was) would be Warmaster, which was the Fantasy version.

I assume you are referring to the 1989 version of Adeptus Titanicus?

No, the recent one. It's basically Epic in newer clothes and a slightly different scale. Of course, at the moment the game focuses entirely on Titan combat I believe and doesn't have infantry etc that the old Epic game had but both games fill the same space; combat on a larger scale than 40K can comfortably manage. At least, that was the premise of Epic when it first arrived. Back then, 40K was very much a squad focussed game; Epic was designed to be all about the wider conflict. Warmaster filled that same role in the Fantasy space.

 filbert wrote:


No, the recent one. It's basically Epic in newer clothes and a slightly different scale. Of course, at the moment the game focuses entirely on Titan combat I believe and doesn't have infantry etc that the old Epic game had but both games fill the same space; combat on a larger scale than 40K can comfortably manage. At least, that was the premise of Epic when it first arrived. Back then, 40K was very much a squad focussed game; Epic was designed to be all about the wider conflict. Warmaster filled that same role in the Fantasy space.

I see.

Today's version of Titancius is similar to the old Epic( Space Marine 2nd Ed, in my case ) when playing as knights, but the Titan part - as I remember it, which admittedly was almost 30 years ago - feels different, certainly more indepth. While the original AT was expanded into all out war including the kitchen sink, I get the feeling they will be keeping the game to just the Titans, with Epic 40K(if or when it arrives) a separate game.

 filbert wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 filbert wrote:
The equivalent of Adeptus Titanicus (or Epic, as was) would be Warmaster, which was the Fantasy version.

I assume you are referring to the 1989 version of Adeptus Titanicus?

No, the recent one. It's basically Epic in newer clothes and a slightly different scale. Of course, at the moment the game focuses entirely on Titan combat I believe and doesn't have infantry etc that the old Epic game had but both games fill the same space; combat on a larger scale than 40K can comfortably manage. At least, that was the premise of Epic when it first arrived. Back then, 40K was very much a squad focussed game; Epic was designed to be all about the wider conflict. Warmaster filled that same role in the Fantasy space.

Err, what? AT and Epic are in no way similar to each other, besides both using 6 mm miniatures (yes, new AT is still roughly in the same scale as Epic) and being set in the 40k universe. The scale of warfare portrayed in both is different, the role of the player is very different as are the mechanics of main gameplay. Similar analysis paralysis though, given the alternating rhythm.

AT is a crunchy skirmish game that is mechanically closer to modernized BFG and focuses on micromanaging your engines as they maneuver around the opposition for killing strike. Like BFG, the game produces a beautiful ballet of death where the winner is the commander who can coordinate their efforts better. Both games feature durable main forces, who often have a hard time getting through each other on 1-on-1 duels and the player skill lies in combining your units' efforts in taking singular targets down one after the other. When models fall, it's a big and cinematic thing.

Epic is a heavily abstracted army game of combined arms and operational friction, where stuff dies constantly without a tear shed. While a game of maneuver too, it's more about reducing the opposition's ability to fight and breaking their spirits with constant back and forth about who is going to snatch the sudden death victory with an unexpected move.

 Sherrypie wrote:

 filbert wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 filbert wrote:
The equivalent of Adeptus Titanicus (or Epic, as was) would be Warmaster, which was the Fantasy version.

I assume you are referring to the 1989 version of Adeptus Titanicus?

No, the recent one. It's basically Epic in newer clothes and a slightly different scale. Of course, at the moment the game focuses entirely on Titan combat I believe and doesn't have infantry etc that the old Epic game had but both games fill the same space; combat on a larger scale than 40K can comfortably manage. At least, that was the premise of Epic when it first arrived. Back then, 40K was very much a squad focussed game; Epic was designed to be all about the wider conflict. Warmaster filled that same role in the Fantasy space.

Err, what? AT and Epic are in no way similar to each other, besides both using 6 mm miniatures (yes, new AT is still roughly in the same scale as Epic) and being set in the 40k universe. The scale of warfare portrayed in both is different, the role of the player is very different as are the mechanics of main gameplay. Similar analysis paralysis though, given the alternating rhythm.

AT is a crunchy skirmish game that is mechanically closer to modernized BFG and focuses on micromanaging your engines as they maneuver around the opposition for killing strike. Like BFG, the game produces a beautiful ballet of death where the winner is the commander who can coordinate their efforts better. Both games feature durable main forces, who often have a hard time getting through each other on 1-on-1 duels and the player skill lies in combining your units' efforts in taking singular targets down one after the other. When models fall, it's a big and cinematic thing.

Epic is a heavily abstracted army game of combined arms and operational friction, where stuff dies constantly without a tear shed. While a game of maneuver too, it's more about reducing the opposition's ability to fight and breaking their spirits with constant back and forth about who is going to snatch the sudden death victory with an unexpected move.

You've missed the point entirely. I am not comparing the way the games play or the mechanics; Epic is indeed a massed, abstracted army game and AT may well be about skirmish - I don't know I haven't played it. What I am referring to is the niche that the games fill in the system universe. Even though it may be a skirmish game in terms of numbers of models fielded per side or the way it plays, AT is on a much smaller scale than 40K, as was Epic. How many Warlord titans can you field comfortably in a game of 40K? One maybe? Without getting into the in's and out's of it, it could be argued just the presence of Knights can unbalance 40K. This is where AT comes in and it is where Epic used to come in - you can play out a battle on a smaller scale and see the 'bigger picture'; hence, they fill the same niche and role in the universe. So going back to the original discussion, Man O War was the Fantasy equivalent to BFG, Warmaster the equivalent to Epic and WHFB the equivalent to 40K.

So going back to the original discussion, Man O War was the Fantasy equivalent to BFG, Warmaster the equivalent to Epic and WHFB the equivalent to 40K.

Yup, seems fitting (also agreeing about knights, IMO they upend the basic "some infantry plus vehicle support" structure 40k was built for and not for the better).

I'd argue AT (both -88 and -18) and later Epics are still too different in direct comparison to fall into the same niche slot as far as systems go, besides the vague "bigger than 40k" idea. Titanicus, Battlefleet, Aeronautica and such games were always meant as specialised games suited to show one aspect of futuristic war well in its niche, where Epic was then the all-in-one bucket where planes and titans strode to war with the teeming masses of infantry. Those are distinctly different niches, just as it is different in historicals to enjoy games about tankers or aeroplane pilots compared to those grand strategists who want to look at the whole theater of war at a glance.

Sadly I think quirky games like Man o War are a thing GW have moved away from. I'd love to be wrong, but I just can't envision modern GW making an AoS equivalent.

As Spartan Games went under, that took away Uncharted Seas, which was the best replacement we had.

Would be great for a company to make a fantasy naval game... only company that I think is in a position to do so would be Mantic Games.

Regarding Dreadfleet. Just no, nice minis, but that game was just so bad. So bad, even Trolls in the Pantry was a better game.

 stonehorse wrote:
Sadly I think quirky games like Man o War are a thing GW have moved away from. I'd love to be wrong, but I just can't envision modern GW making an AoS equivalent.

GW has already brought back Aeronautica; Titanicus; Necromunda and Bloodbowl. Battlefleet Gothic was rumoured to be in the works but got changed. Meanwhile they've had both Warcry and Killteam made into their own games and even added Underworlds and Warammer Quest.



Man O War could very well make a return and AoS is fantastic for it - there are vast seas and more than enough scope to give each race its own fleet of ships to play with as well as a hoard of monsters and beasties of the depths. Right now it really depends if GW "wants" to or not.