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Been a few years since I posted.
Did not see anything about Warhammer Old world.

Any whoo.. I see the Square basses are making a comeback.

What's your thoughts?

Why do square bases make a comeback? GW will surprise us with the new Old World setting in a couple of years but not right now.

Yeah, there's a bit of "cart in front of the horse" currently. I'm personally a little worried that with the fairly significant size increase of models as well as the ridiculous dynamic poses that we may see root infantry on 40mm Ogre bases once this all hits. IF they don't somehow back out of it.

GW were never going to completely abandon their IP. One of the lessons learned from everything that has happened from, say, 2007 until 2015 is that if you don't support your games you leave the market open for competition to swoop in and take it away from you.

Its why Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Adeptus Titanicus etc, all made a comeback. Why leave it so third parties can come in and make that money instead of you?

I don't see GW changing the scale either. Cross compatibility is important for conversion and such so it'll stay 28mm I have no doubt.

We won't know anything until we do so we'll just have to wait and see.

Not changing the scale?

They changed the scale with the new Sororitas.

I wouldn't mind everything going up a base size, elves barely fit on 20mm bases even in the 90s. God forbid you played Chaos, I STILL have nightmares about ranking up those old plastic warriors!

Probably too much to hope for multi-based units like in Kings of War, or War of the Ring style movement trays

 Strg Alt wrote:
Not changing the scale?

They changed the scale with the new Sororitas.

Sisters are still 28mm scale, which is what I was refering too. Many people seem to think the game would go Warmaster size, which seems exceedingly foolish as Warmaster was never super popular to begin with anyway.

A base size change? Maybe. But that is more annoying then a big scale change like many suggest. GW will still want some compatibility between their kits. Maybe they put out new Empire troops and people like the heads on them and want to use them for conversion for a special Imperial Guard regiment? Can't do that is the scale is smaller or too large. GW would not pass up the opportunity to sell extra kits for kitbashing/conversion.

Could be cool if it’s warhammer version of 30k (updated 8th rules, cool funky stuff).

New chaos warriors dont fit on anything less than a 40x40. They could make a 32x32, I would not mind that.

New WoC do fit in 25x25. A bit tight, but still works:


(from T9A forum).


Most AoS models find their way into T9A or WHFB,.... including newer stuff like Stormcast, Idoneth, KO, etc... So I can see it working for this new Old World if they decide to go into that direction.

Of course, if going square bases, I think introducing a new base size of 32x32 would be reasonable considering the huge gap between 25mm and 40mm.

Can you link this, I cant find it.

Same as the khorne marauders do, not sure on the khorne warriors as I haven’t tried. I imagine this will be forgeworld lead thing anyway, so loads of resin kits. I’m sure I saw something about some new Kislev unit.

 Orlanth wrote:
Can you link this, I cant find it.

https://www.the-ninth-age.com/community/gallery/index.php?image-list/67-warriors-of-the-dark-gods-wdg/

Second row, two pics. Limited options to make them fit though.

It would be incredibly entertaining if they kicked this thing off with a Bretonnia vs Tomb Kings boxset.

I am guessing Chaos vs Kislev.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

 itsonlyme wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

Well, what do I think? I think The Frostlings of AoW are way cooler than this Kislev guard.

Geez, the new Old World product will suck, if it's solely centered on the Kislev region. Tell ye what, they will turn WH into a shallow Mordheim version.

Ah yes the classic "everything will suck based on one piece on concept art". I did enjoy that thread when this was reveled a month ago.

We literally know nothing and probably wont know more until...what? Maybe later this year? Even then it'll probably be more concept art.

PS: There is already a shallow Mordheim, its Warhammer Skirmish and the rules for it are in the back of the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy rulebook. Also, the game is awesome! I have a few warbands built up for it myself.

Commodus Leitdorf wrote:Many people seem to think the game would go Warmaster size, which seems exceedingly foolish as Warmaster was never super popular to begin with anyway.

There are hints in this topic that just scratch the surface why 28-32mm minis - or at least individually based 28-32mm minis - are a silly idea for big rank 'n' file games. I'd maybe argue that Warmaster was unpopular because that former was the golden brown that GW already got gamers hooked on, through WFB.

But, I agree with you. If GW's going to reach out to all those old players of one of their big-two games, they're not going to muck about with the basic size and compatibility of the minis. They'd only do that with lesser properties. Like Epic.

Commodus Leitdorf wrote:Ah yes the classic "everything will suck based on one piece on concept art". I did enjoy that thread when this was reveled a month ago.

Ah yes the classic "you are not allowed to dislike what GW deigns to bless us with".

I'd say it might be reasonable to be pessimistic when we're talking about the one image sifted from the backstage pile, that multiple people at GW thought would be the best choice to form a first impression and excite potential paying customers. Especially as it's the first whisper of any official WFB news, since a lot of those customers were kicked in the bracket.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 itsonlyme wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

Well, what do I think? I think The Frostlings of AoW are way cooler than this Kislev guard.

Geez, the new Old World product will suck, if it's solely centered on the Kislev region. Tell ye what, they will turn WH into a shallow Mordheim version.

Not many conclusions jumped to here!! I seriously doubt it will focus on one small region, but given it’s a concept for an army in that area... chances it will have different books like HH for different areas.

 Vermis wrote:

Commodus Leitdorf wrote:Ah yes the classic "everything will suck based on one piece on concept art". I did enjoy that thread when this was reveled a month ago.

Ah yes the classic "you are not allowed to dislike what GW deigns to bless us with".

I'd say it might be reasonable to be pessimistic when we're talking about the one image sifted from the backstage pile, that multiple people at GW thought would be the best choice to form a first impression and excite potential paying customers. Especially as it's the first whisper of any official WFB news, since a lot of those customers were kicked in the bracket.

Oh do not mistake my criticism of lazy criticism as love of GW. I haven't bought anything directly from GW since 2007 when the nixed the bits service. I ESPECIALLY haven't given them money since they axed WHFB.

But pretending like a small piece of concept art is representative of the whole "Old World" project seems silly. It's concept art of one faction of which we have limited information on what it will actually be. We quite literally know nothing other then it will take place well before the End Times and Kislev will be there. Which is great for me! It will finally give me an excuse to paint the 20 off Kossars I have sitting in a box.

Personally? I'm leaning towards Mordheim or Morheim like. One box, two warbands, rulebook and Terrain. Easy peezey. If they do end up going to rank and flank I imagine the units will be smaller then what 8th edition provided. Which, frankly, is probably the main reason the game did so poorly toward the end.

I think the reaction to the Kislev Ice Guard was motivated by a misconception of Warhammer Fantasy as "low fantasy" insofar as such a thing exists. Even Conan and ASOIAF have dragons and other fantastical creatures. Warhammer is not that. It is very much high fantasy, filtered through the twin influences of Moorcock and Tolkien. Even the most "low" army, the Empire, has battlemages, magical rune-swords, and the like.

I really hope, whatever this turns out to be, doesn't use 8th as a basis for its rules.

6th for life.

RaptorusRex wrote:I think the reaction to the Kislev Ice Guard was motivated by a misconception of Warhammer Fantasy as "low fantasy" insofar as such a thing exists. Even Conan and ASOIAF have dragons and other fantastical creatures. Warhammer is not that. It is very much high fantasy, filtered through the twin influences of Moorcock and Tolkien. Even the most "low" army, the Empire, has battlemages, magical rune-swords, and the like.

What if it's not a binary thing? What if we simply don't want World of Warcrafthammer: The Gathering? There is a such thing as a bridge too far.

Bosskelot wrote:I really hope, whatever this turns out to be, doesn't use 8th as a basis for its rules.

6th for life.

MY BRO! Or SIS, as I don't know your gender...

 itsonlyme wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 itsonlyme wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

Well, what do I think? I think The Frostlings of AoW are way cooler than this Kislev guard.

Geez, the new Old World product will suck, if it's solely centered on the Kislev region. Tell ye what, they will turn WH into a shallow Mordheim version.

Not many conclusions jumped to here!! I seriously doubt it will focus on one small region, but given it’s a concept for an army in that area... chances it will have different books like HH for different areas.

Well, quite. Given that they've also released this map, featuring a lot more than just Kislev...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/cartography-in-the-old-worldgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

Given that WtOW is still years out, I wouldn't be surprised if GW made the decision to release that particular bit of unit concept art early to see what kind of reaction there was to it.

The map prompted a lot of "Oh, what era is this, time of 3 emperors, very interesting!" comments

The Army of Elsa prompted a lot of very strong reactions. GW does spy on this stuff. They'll be taking notes.

Their conclusion will not necessarily be what ours might be, though!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also be very surprised if unit facing isn't a thing - they made a big deal about square bases.

I'd also be surprised if they kept unit sizes at 8th edition levels, rather than dropping to 4th/5th "20 models is a really big unit" levels.

6th would be a more sensible barometer to work from. You had a large mix of units of around 20 or more models in most armies so it struck a really nice balance. Maneuver and flanking was possible and even a 20-25 unit of core troops could still be important and relevant (while not being super difficult to buy/collect). 8th's big issue was mandating a need for a 60+ strong deathblob of hyper elite (and therefore more expensive monetarily) troops with assorted hangers on at the flanks.

I'd be very interested to see if GW takes any inspiration from KoW. A lot of the time when I hear old WHFB complaining about later editions of the game, or the state of AOS rules, I always want to recommend KOW to them. It has its flaws in comparison to the WHFB, but when you can play a 2k point game in less than half the time of pretty much any edition of Fantasy I think it's important to take note and inspiration from it.

I certainly do hope that whatever GW come sup with it takes its cues from 6th as well. Although I freely admit that I am biased and that is both the edition I started in, and my favourite one to begin with.

That being said I expect GW to do something very different then what was done before. Anything to make it so that units feel like units and not really expensive wound counters.

Commodus Leitdorf wrote:But pretending like a small piece of concept art is representative of the whole "Old World" project seems silly. It's concept art of one faction of which we have limited information on what it will actually be. We quite literally know nothing other then it will take place well before the End Times and Kislev will be there. Which is great for me! It will finally give me an excuse to paint the 20 off Kossars I have sitting in a box.

Stop being reasonable. It makes it harder for me to argue with you.

I think I've been spending too much time in the News and Rumours board...

Agreed, 'it'll all suck' is a bit of a daft statement, to say nothing of thinking the whole thing is based around Kislev; but the one wee sliver of anything we have so far, until who-knows-when, is looking just a bit 8th ed/ET themed.

Maybe GW thinks we all know what to expect from most of the other races and factions, and Kislev is getting attention because it was in line for a revamp before the warhammer world was put to the torch. But, well...

Just Tony wrote:What if it's not a binary thing? What if we simply don't want World of Warcrafthammer: The Gathering? There is a such thing as a bridge too far.

Yeah, I'd fall on this side of things. I only discovered Warhammer in 6th, and one of the things that attracted me about it was the real-world-but-grungier aspects of the human nations, trying to cope with a flood of weirdness. Particularly in art like this. It's not an untouchable hero posing like Napoleon, waving a glowing sword. It's a bunch of soldiers struggling with a dirty, dangerous job.
Sure there's battlemages and runeswords, but even they're part of the weirdness, limited to character models, and even then given a false sense of... abundance, in the setting, by the game necessarily focusing on battles.

(I think the extent of magic in classic fantasy in Conan and LotR can be somewhat overstated too. Conan's main theme is about an 'ordinary' man forcing the world to cry uncle; even the least occurence of magic or monsters is treated like an unusual, wild and terrifying thing. [See the ending of 'The God in the Bowl'.] And IIRC in one story REH pokes fun at the Lovecraft side of things, having Conan comment about 'finding elder gods lying about all over the place.' In LotR, what humans and hobbits call magic is part of a being's inherent nature and abilities that are greater than theirs. Elves and ents have some greater power. Maiar [Sauron and the five wizards] have more, but even then it's usually got a cap on it, limited in some way to spurring on their side.)

Anyway, TL;DR: I'm someone who swaps out Sisters of Avelorn bows and has chracian chariots pulled by horses. A unit of regular humans waving magic ice weapons in WHF doesn't thrill me. From my PoV making too many things magical doesn't make everything more exciting, it cheapens magic. If everyone's super, then no-one is.

I threw my toys put of the pram as hard as most when AoS came around (Hoo boy. ) but other people like the step-up of the fantastical setting and minis. It's profitable for GW. Fair enough. But with hints of the Old World being revisited, I'd hope that AoS would be the outlet for turned-up-to-eleven fantasy. I don't need too much new material to use that old setting (couple of the discontinued plastic sets maybe) but it'd be nice if it was a bit more... sedate.

 Vermis wrote:

Just Tony wrote:What if it's not a binary thing? What if we simply don't want World of Warcrafthammer: The Gathering? There is a such thing as a bridge too far.

Yeah, I'd fall on this side of things. I only discovered Warhammer in 6th, and one of the things that attracted me about it was the real-world-but-grungier aspects of the human nations, trying to cope with a flood of weirdness. Particularly in art like this. It's not an untouchable hero posing like Napoleon, waving a glowing sword. It's a bunch of soldiers struggling with a dirty, dangerous job.
Sure there's battlemages and runeswords, but even they're part of the weirdness, limited to character models, and even then given a false sense of... abundance, in the setting, by the game necessarily focusing on battles.

(I think the extent of magic in classic fantasy in Conan and LotR can be somewhat overstated too. Conan's main theme is about an 'ordinary' man forcing the world to cry uncle; even the least occurence of magic or monsters is treated like an unusual, wild and terrifying thing. [See the ending of 'The God in the Bowl'.] And IIRC in one story REH pokes fun at the Lovecraft side of things, having Conan comment about 'finding elder gods lying about all over the place.' In LotR, what humans and hobbits call magic is part of a being's inherent nature and abilities that are greater than theirs. Elves and ents have some greater power. Maiar [Sauron and the five wizards] have more, but even then it's usually got a cap on it, limited in some way to spurring on their side.)

Anyway, TL;DR: I'm someone who swaps out Sisters of Avelorn bows and has chracian chariots pulled by horses. A unit of regular humans waving magic ice weapons in WHF doesn't thrill me. From my PoV making too many things magical doesn't make everything more exciting, it cheapens magic. If everyone's super, then no-one is.

I threw my toys put of the pram as hard as most when AoS came around (Hoo boy. ) but other people like the step-up of the fantastical setting and minis. It's profitable for GW. Fair enough. But with hints of the Old World being revisited, I'd hope that AoS would be the outlet for turned-up-to-eleven fantasy. I don't need too much new material to use that old setting (couple of the discontinued plastic sets maybe) but it'd be nice if it was a bit more... sedate.

Couple of points.

1.) This is ultimately a matter of personal taste, I think. For me, Warhammer is the Dawi. Magic runes, relentlessly seeking vengeance, lines of armored soldiers with axes, and beards. But I will argue there is a lot more "untouchable hero holding a glowing sword" than you might think. There's the whole concept of Ghal Maraz, for example, as exemplified in this art piece. And of course, the various pieces of unique wargear each faction's unique characters have: The Sword of Couronne, the Runefangs, etc. But again: this is all down to personal taste.

2.) The Istari had plenty of power, being godly Maiar and all. It's just that they were not allowed to match Sauron's power with power. Those were the rules set for them. The Valar themselves exercise plenty of magical power, ripping apart a entire continent in the War of Wrath. As for Conan, it's set in a time where gods and myth were real things. The main villain of the first movie is a guy who turns into a snake, for chrissakes. That said, there's evidence for magic being more widespread in the early Third, Second and First Ages. The dwarfs of yore made mighty spells, after all.