Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was actually quite surprised to learn that Dan Abnett was writing book number 4 of the SoT series. I always assumed he would be writing the final book considering he wrote the first one. It would've given the series a feeling of symmetry. But as he's down for book 4, I really hope ADB is doing the final book. Alongside Abnett he is my favourite author, and I'd love to see what he'd do with the final encounter between the Big E and his wayward son.

Does anyone know if ADB IS writing the last book? The only info I can find on BL's website doesn't say anything beyond who the six authors would be.

I’ve no idea who’s writing the final one, but I’m really quite pleased it won’t be Dan Abnett. I have liked most of the stuff he’s written and consider him one of the better Black Library authors, but he does have a track record for being a bit of a let down when it comes to endings.

Aash wrote:
I’ve no idea who’s writing the final one, but I’m really quite pleased it won’t be Dan Abnett. I have liked most of the stuff he’s written and consider him one of the better Black Library authors, but he does have a track record for being a bit of a let down when it comes to endings.

Yeah, there are a few of his books that I struggled with -- The Burning of Prospero, The Unremembered Empire and The Keeler Image being three examples -- but other than that I can't get enough of his writing. I'm currently reading Anarch and it's incredible.

Chatting on this forum made me realise just how varied people's opinions really are. For me, the HH book Fulgrim is a sublime read, and yet I once saw someone on here refer to it as "a train wreck", much to my puzzlement.

 Muhr wrote:
I was actually quite surprised to learn that Dan Abnett was writing book number 4 of the SoT series. I always assumed he would be writing the final book considering he wrote the first one. It would've given the series a feeling of symmetry. But as he's down for book 4, I really hope ADB is doing the final book. Alongside Abnett he is my favourite author, and I'd love to see what he'd do with the final encounter between the Big E and his wayward son.

Does anyone know if ADB IS writing the last book? The only info I can find is on BL's website doesn't say anything beyond who the six authors would be.

I sure hope not. ADB is the most overrated and inconsistent writer in Black Library. On one hand you have masterpieces (insofar as any BL work can be a masterpiece) like The First Heretic and Helsreach, sloppy faux-philosophical schlock like Betrayer, and utter garbage like The Emperor's Gift.

Every BL author is at best inconsistent yes (even Dan Abnett deal with it), but among the so-called "top tier" BL writers ADB's work can get particularly terrible.

He's got a perfect record when it comes to Night Lords. Here's hoping that whichever SoT book he writes, his next will be a return to the Eighth.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Muhr wrote:

I sure hope not. ADB is the most overrated and inconsistent writer in Black Library. On one hand you have masterpieces (insofar as any BL work can be a masterpiece) like The First Heretic and Helsreach, sloppy faux-philosophical schlock like Betrayer, and utter garbage like The Emperor's Gift.

Every BL author is at best inconsistent yes (even Dan Abnett deal with it), but among the so-called "top tier" BL writers ADB's work can get particularly terrible.

I couldn't disagree more. Betrayer is one of my favourite HH books alongside the first three, Fulgrim, The First Heretic, Deliverence Lost, Angel Exterminatus and Know No Fear.

What BL novels would you consider to be exceptional?

I have found the plodding, pedantic work by ADB to be an utter bore. He and John French are likely my least two favorite BL authors, for similar reasons. Fanboys in particular like ADB, though, cause he talks to them on the internets...

 Muhr wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. Betrayer is one of my favourite HH books alongside the first three, Fulgrim, The First Heretic, Deliverence Lost, Angel Exterminatus and Know No Fear.

What BL novels would you consider to be exceptional?

The first three Horus Heresy books are good the the exception of Horus' fall being poorly handled, Fulgrim is good or at least fun, TFH is very good, never read Deliverance Lost, Angel Exterminatus is very good in spite of how borderline irrelevant the plot is, and Know No Fear started out very strong but turned to gak after.

Exceptional? The Eisenhorn trilogy, A Thousand Sons, The First Heretic, Angel Exterminatus, Horus Rising in particular of the opening trilogy of the HH, Fulgrim (if only because it was my first BL novel), Helsreach, I also have a soft spot for Path of the Warrior since the protagonist's big moment that made him go down said path was essentially his impotent incel rage which I think really fits the Eldar.

I'm a huge Abnett fan. I think his writing is awesome. I'm surprised he's not getting the finale. I always thought Abnett is best with character development. I hope the guy their giving it to someone who excels at describing scenery and action.

It's tough since the last book will have the climatic showdown between Emps and Horus himself, we'll finally have a canon version of what really happened there and the details of who intervened near the end of the fight. My personal desire is to see Chris Wraight write the ending, since he's by far my top guy so far in BL as far as being consistently good as far as storytelling goes.

I seem to remember that Dan Abnett would write the last book as well. Since there will be eight books and there are only six authors for the series, two of them will be writing two books.

 Dantioch wrote:
I seem to remember that Dan Abnett would write the last book as well. Since there will be eight books and there are only six authors for the series, two of them will be writing two books.

or one of them three which isn't as mad as it sounds if the final two books are basicly "part 1 and part 2" as it where

 Grimskul wrote:
we'll finally have a canon version of what really happened there and the details of who intervened near the end of the fight.

Not if ADB's writing it you won't. You'll just see the aftermath and some vague hints as to what really happened, which the fanbase will either ignore in favour of their own headcanon, or will horribly misinterpret because most 40K fans don't really want or appreciate subtlety and nuance. And I will laugh, like I do every time someone brings up that bit in Master of Mankind where the Emperor apparently refers to the Primarchs as numbers when talking to Arkhan Land, while completely ignoring that he addresses Magnus by name right at the start of that same book.

A lot of dan abnett's work relies on him inventing something not in 40k and then writing his story revolving around it so it becomes something important, or causally throwing lines in that upturn 40k and have big consequences.

He came from comics though where you can say whatever you want and reset it whenever you want.

But in an ongoing narrative, wholesale inventing things with significant ramifications like enuncia which makes selling your soul to chaos for power pointless, or no wolves on fenris being one of the most ridiculous and contrived retcons so that space Wolves are even more parody, or perpetuals and the ruination of Vulkan's tragic death by him now growing back like wolverine up to 11, or the super special extra primarch he added to the setting and so on.

He's written some of my favourite books and also invented some of my most disliked additions to 40k.

He seems to need to add things underneath everything to change them entirely, rather than widening the material on top.

 Duskweaver wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
we'll finally have a canon version of what really happened there and the details of who intervened near the end of the fight.

Not if ADB's writing it you won't. You'll just see the aftermath and some vague hints as to what really happened, which the fanbase will either ignore in favour of their own headcanon, or will horribly misinterpret because most 40K fans don't really want or appreciate subtlety and nuance. And I will laugh, like I do every time someone brings up that bit in Master of Mankind where the Emperor apparently refers to the Primarchs as numbers when talking to Arkhan Land, while completely ignoring that he addresses Magnus by name right at the start of that same book.

ADB has a bit of cult of personality around him by fans I think partly because he is more accessible than most.

As to your comment, I don't see anything of issue there at all. The emperor had been shown to be two faced all the time. And he doesn't even need to here, he just has to accept that they grew up and got different names and identifies with them.

Just because you think Karen is a bitch doesn't mean you call her that to her face. Magnus likes to be identified as Magnus, that doesn't mean the emperor can't still see him as a tool with a bar code

theValdor novel ahs added an intreasting wrinkle in this though in that it suggests some sentimentality on the part of the emperor to the primarchs at least initally

Hellebore wrote:
the super special extra primarch he added to the setting and so on.

Forgive my ignorance, did Dan Abnett make up a new Primarch?

BrianDavion wrote:theValdor novel ahs added an intreasting wrinkle in this though in that it suggests some sentimentality on the part of the emperor to the primarchs at least initally

That's true and it could be paternal, but you can be sentimental about a lot of things, like your first bike, favourite game, C lucky hat etc. He could easily be sentimental about them because they embody his purpose and drive for humanity. They were his first big commitment - his Rubicon if you will. When he made them the couldn't turn back.

Aash wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
the super special extra primarch he added to the setting and so on.

Forgive my ignorance, did Dan Abnett make up a new Primarch?

He invented Omegon. Before Legion, there was only ever 20 primarchs.

Hellebore wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:theValdor novel ahs added an intreasting wrinkle in this though in that it suggests some sentimentality on the part of the emperor to the primarchs at least initally

That's true and it could be paternal, but you can be sentimental about a lot of things, like your first bike, favourite game, C lucky hat etc. He could easily be sentimental about them because they embody his purpose and drive for humanity. They were his first big commitment - his Rubicon if you will. When he made them the couldn't turn back.

Aash wrote:

Hellebore wrote:
the super special extra primarch he added to the setting and so on.

Forgive my ignorance, did Dan Abnett make up a new Primarch?

He invented Omegon. Before Legion, there was only ever 20 primarchs.

Really?! I could’ve sworn the twin primarchs alpha/omegon was a thing before the HH book series started. I don’t have any evidence to back that up so maybe it’s a Mandela effect thing going on.

I know there’s no mention of Omegon in the 2nd ed codex chaos and that only had the story about Horus finding Alpharius and they recognised each other and that Alpharius didn’t reveal his home world.

The point I was making is that a lot of readers seem not to get what ADB is trying to do in his writing. He is not a believer in one-true-wayism. He likes to leave some room for ambiguity and mystery.

The Emperor might be an evil (but strangely incompetent) megalomaniac who sees his 'sons' as just expendable tools to enable his domination of the galaxy. Or he might be a tragic (and tragically flawed) hero who selflessly sacrificed himself in a doomed attempt to free his species from the Dark Gods.

But a lot of 40K fans don't seem to like that sort of ambiguity. And childish, postmodern cynicism is 'in' right now, so there's a tendency to emphasise the bits that make the Emperor look evil or selfish or stupid, and ignore all the rest. Hence people focusing on that scene with Arkhan Land and ignoring all the rest of the stuff in that book where ADB suggests that people only percieve the Emperor through the lens of their own hopes and prejudices, not as he actually is.

And I'm sure that, if ADB does end up writing the Emp/Horus duel, the same sort of thing will happen again. He will drop vague but interesting hints and leave a lot to our imaginations, and 90% of readers will just jump straight to the most stupid and cynical interpretation (and insist that their interpretation is unambiguous canon).

(Incidentally, If I were to write that scene, I'd actually describe the whole thing twice, from the PoV of two different characters, one a loyalist and one a follower of Horus. In the loyalist's PoV, the Emperor would be a saintly figure, a loving father pleading with his wayward son; in the Horus-follower's PoV, he'd be a coldly arrogant tyrant addressing Horus with a sneer as "Number Sixteen, the most flawed of all my creations", and ordering him to surrender or be put down like a rabid canine. With the implication that both versions are equally 'true'.)

I think you’ve sadly mistaken sloppy, dull, plodding, and wordy for ‘deep’.

At a guess, Abbadon is going to be our traitor pov for the duel.

And I do agree ADB's ambiguity is probably the best choice here.

IMHO: In master of mankind the emperor always appears as the perfect ruler to each character he interacts with. (Wether that be a worthy king for the costudians or the cold and machine-minded Arkhan Land etc.

 Grimskul wrote:
It's tough since the last book will have the climatic showdown between Emps and Horus himself, we'll finally have a canon version of what really happened there and the details of who intervened near the end of the fight. My personal desire is to see Chris Wraight write the ending, since he's by far my top guy so far in BL as far as being consistently good as far as storytelling goes.

Completely agree with you on this one. Chris wraight is an awesome writer who is very good at keeping consistency within the story and the overall lore of 40k, which I find massively important for such a big IP like 40k. So I still keep my fingers crossed that he'll be involved in the last books.

Give me Chris Wright or Guy Haley.

I'd rather Guy got back to the Phoenix Lord books instead of more sidetracking like crappy Ynnari books...

pm713 wrote:
I'd rather Guy got back to the Phoenix Lord books instead of more sidetracking like crappy Ynnari books...

And even crappier Night Lords books....

 totalfailure wrote:
I think you’ve sadly mistaken sloppy, dull, plodding, and wordy for ‘deep’.

I'm sorry, did I use the word 'deep'? I don't think I did. Nothing in any GW/BL publication could accurately be described as 'deep'.

But I guess if you think anything more challenging than adolescent bolter-porn is 'sloppy, dull, plodding, and wordy', then ADB's stuff possibly qualifies as 'deep'.

(For the record, I think ADB does actually kinda suck at pacing. It's his biggest weakness as a writer.)

You mean in or out of book pacing? He's notoriously bad at deadlines.

I'd rather Haley be tasked with writing a first book or 2 in a post heresy scouring/2nd founding series the guys done a decent job with both Gulliman and Cawl and I think he'd do a good job setting up the 2nd founding AND showing us the beginning of the primarius project

Bowden should be the very last person to be allowed anywhere near the final duel, given his need to squeeze rampant Abbaddon fanboyism into everything.

changemod wrote:
Bowden should be the very last person to be allowed anywhere near the final duel, given his need to squeeze rampant Abbaddon fanboyism into everything.

Other than in the Black Legion series, which as a faction revolve around Abaddon, where exactly is he squeezing Abaddon fanboyism into?