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Thinking about running this as my Guard List if we are ever allowed to play again...

I am still not sure how the best way to use the Scions though. I like the idea of the 10 man squad with the Volley guns using the strat to make the guns +1str. But still not positive that's better than plasma...One of the Tempestor Primes will get Old Grudges with the new strat and will be hanging back with the Tank Commanders

And I cant decide on the last 80 points


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [17 PL, -1CP, 286pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Regimental Doctrine: 55th Kappic Eagles

+ HQ +

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 40pts]: Tempestus Command Rod

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, -1CP, 35pts]: Field Commander, Hot-shot Laspistol, Warlord, WT: Old Grudges

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 98pts]
. 5x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 35pts]
. 4x Scion
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 35pts]
. 4x Scion
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [55 PL, -1CP, 857pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [1 PL, 15pts]: Laspistol, Psychic Barrier

Astropath [1 PL, 15pts]: Laspistol, Psychic Barrier

Bullgryns [19 PL, 294pts]
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield

Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 35pts]: Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks [13 PL, 216pts]
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [53 PL, -3CP, 855pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ Stratagems +

Imperial Commander's Armoury [-1CP]: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Emperor's Fist Tank Company

Tank Ace [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Tank Commander [12 PL, 199pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Master Mechanic, Plasma Cannons, Relic (Emperor's Fist): Hammer of Sunderance

Tank Commander [12 PL, 199pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons

Tank Commander [12 PL, 198pts]: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters, Heavy Stubber, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon, Weapon Expert

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]
. 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Heavy Support +

Manticore [8 PL, 139pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile

So, I run scions a lot these days and the kappic eagles hotshotvolleygun scions were unimpressive. You are going to drop them in to fire their volleyguns and mess up but not kill a big target .. .what is 3 or 4 wounds to a mortarion? Tanks will soak their fire and not blow up, its going to be basically an effective weapon set for killing a screen unit .. but.
Lets imagine you are fighting someone who has marines, primaris, maybe, in cover. you dump in 9.1 inches out -- so long range with kappic hslg's, and short with the hsvg. You fire, although a tiny part of your brain is telling you your special regiment trait is being used to buff 4 weapons total +1 bs to hit one time, cause you only got the 4 heavy weapons.
5 hslg = 3 hits easy, but only 1 of them bites and the marines save on a 4+. so .5 wounds.
4 hsVg = 11 hits easy, or 5 saves required, buuut the marines (in cover, of course) still save on 4+ so only 2.5 more wounds.
Congrats!
Your almost 100 point unit killed a primaris, but is now alone, exposed, and dead.

That's basically just one example .. but so many god @#$% marines these days its a common one. You would fare better against grey knights, perhaps, but still be looking at a squad of those sort of flying guys who could retaliate by killnig a lot of scions.

Now, if you also drop a tempestor in close, to pass "elimination protocols sanctioned" and you are targeting a light tank of some kind, you might could with all the rerolls start to see a few points off a tank, but you won't get much more favorable than 50 percent of your shots hitting, and your sunday punch for this group is a whopping 16 shots for 1 wound each. 50 percent of which is going to fail to wound, and 50 percent of which a well armored opponent (yes, even with ap-2) will laugh and be in cover against.

Eliminators, for example, are a pain to kill with hotshotvolleyguns alone, but a target you would often see this sort of unit being the logical one to take on.

Lets imagine you go with something OTHER than kappic eagles, because we are going to toss the HSVG out for abit.

give yourself 6 inches extra rapidfire range on your rapid fire weapons -- for example. Iotan dragons.

Now you drop in and fire your 9 hotshotlasguns (because you sold those Volley for scrap) at your primaris target. from 9.1 inches away, you can buddabudda 2 shots each, 4 with FRFSRF, from the nearby tempestor prime, and because all 9 lasguns are in short range, and firing 4 times, it pays to put a cp in to bump their strength up by 1 each. So you fire 36 s4/-2/1 shots where your more expensive kappic unit was firing only 5 s3 and 16 s4. You save 28 points in weapons but it does, I admit, cost 1 cp.
So you expect to shoot 36 shots, and hit with 24 of them, ish, and get 12 saves the enemy must make, for 3 primaris dead -- which is incidentally and happily an entire squad of eliminators.
Sure, you just used a 70 point unit to kill a 74 point unit, but its cool. you could ALSO split this fire between a couple 10 man gaurd squads or 10 man fire warriors for good effect.

Now, if you really, really want to kill primaris, lets say you gave the iotan gorgonnes special relic weapon to your tempestor prime -- a 3 shot plasma pistol. So you drop him in, and spend 1 cp for an extra order (himself, reroll 1's) and blase away 3 times with his little plasma on overload.
On average, you kill 1 primaris. Much like cadians use a scratch to get interlocking fields, your unit, which now shoots the primaris 24 more times successfully, can use a SECOND strategem to get +1 to roll on wounds. Meaning you will hit 24 times, but 16 of the shots generate saves, or 4 primaris dead (+ the 1 you shot already) ... very possibly wiping the squad the enemy was counting on your not wiping.

What to do with 28 points freed up? (i think there is a math error in this post, I forgot to pay for that plasma relic pistol upgrade. but you can figure that all out!)
hmm.
20 points. master of ordinance, he's good for 1 shot from the backline with 6 s8/-2/d3 .. but with the cadian order, he can reroll all misses. He is almost as good as pask at getting a cadian scratch to then interlock fields of fire, one time. cheap!

88 points left. You might consider giving your other 2 squads of scions hot stinking plasma, meaning 2 plasma each and 1 plasma pistol each. Now if you drop them in concert at a target, with the tempest behind them, you can fire potentially 13 (this assumes the relic plasma on the tempestor prime) plasma shots at your target. Hmm. This would take both tempestors to pull off safely, 13 bs3/reroll1's is not too shabby, you would expect around 10+ hits with plasma. If you were to for example give your old grudges warlord the relic laurels of command, you could amp that up significantly against heavy armor, by potentially double ordering someone.

Anyway. The point is, those 2 squads go from pretty useless to pretty useful, even if you are just dropping them to support the big hotshotlasguns squad, you can wipe a lot of primaris off the map with 13 plasma and 36 hslg.

That's certainly a viable option -- and one that doesn't trip all over itself the way I think the hotshotvolleyguns do.

so .. all those changes, you would still have some 48 points to blow on random stuff. I personally favor a missle launcher on as many cadian squads as I can get becuase of the nice rerolls, low price, and longer range against both horde and tank.
That would leave enough points to put all the heavy bolters you currently have on your punisher tank into plasma weaponry, which gives it a much better antitank dual role, and .. meh, I dunno, 4 points left, someone needs a powersword?


This is all just really some easy thougths on scions. I myself ahve been running a 3 group army with a lot of scions lately -- and shifted into lambda lions for the cool relic and warlord trait. Which ARE cool, fyi, so cool that I gave up a tank ace for it. The lambda warlord gives every scion unit in six inches a 1 reroll for free AND a 5++ invuln (relic).

So your 10 man crew would (if lambdan) be much less useful to you in your setup -- out of range for the 36 shots, and you would maybe look at something with plasma to synergize with the other two units. You could actually afford that, more or less, if the 10 man squad had 4 plasma and the relic plasma pistol in the tempest's hands.

Your scion sunday punch (lambda style) would be...
8 plasma gun shots + 3 relic pistol shots from the big squad
4 + 1 from the little squad
4+ 1 from the little squad.
all rerolling 1's for free -- which then lets you set your order to "elimination protocol" and reroll all woudns vs vehic/monster.
21 shots .. reroll 1's .. so around 18 hits from plasma in the initial drop to a target in range. You can seriously threaten a knight with that, and wipe any primaris squad you care to name. Its just a different playstyle from the "cheap guys in front" style the kappic eagles use.

The whole block of 20 scions would carry a 5++ shield, which isn't crap, either, if you drop them in cover, there are worse saves in the game than 3+/5++. Still, not being as likely to get into range, I think I favor the dragons over lions in this case.

I am not anti-hsvg. I just don't think its a good sunday punch for a troop group of scions, its maybe better for that one odd backfield squad you are going to drop in and use to wipe a few admech soldiers off a backfield objective.