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What optional rules do you use? - 2020 Edition  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Poll
Check all rules that are used in the majority of your games
CA 2019 Matched Play rules/points update
Organized Play - Limited Number of Datasheets aka "Rule of Three"
Organized Play - Limited Number of Detachments
Organized Play - Table Size
Warhammer Legends (Datasheets/Choices)
Forgeworld
Rules exclusive to White Dwarf
Datasheets for Blackstone Fortress miniatures
Datasheets for Kill Team miniatures (Gellerpox/Rouge Trader)
Datasheets for Open/Narrative play only (any source)
Vigilus Defiant/Ablaze
Psychic Awakening army updates
ITC 40k Tournament Format
CA 2019 Eternal War or Maelstrom
Official narrative missions (any book)
CA 2019 terrain rules
Cities of Death (full or partially)

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Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






Please check which of 8th edition's optional rules you and/or your opponents actually use in the majority of your games.

If you don't have a clear answer (for example, because you play in two different metas, one casual and one highly competitive), pick your preference.

If a rule would be used but doesn't apply to every game (for example, because you don't have a legends unit in every game or because your army hasn't had its PA yet), check it anyways.

If you don't play 8th edition because you prefer another edition or 30k - I don't care, please don't vote

If you skip other rules regularly that are not listed here, feel free to tell us which ones and why!

This time around, the choice is a more focused around what I feel the community sees as optional, rather than those which GW has declared as such.

Also note that I'm fully aware of the technical limitations of dakka's polling system when it comes to multiple choice polls and the resulting statistical inaccuracies, please don't derail the thread about them.
The resulting numbers are good enough to see trends, and this is what I'm interested in.

Also, don't make this thread about forgeworld, we've had enough of those.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






True, but some people here on dakka allegedly have agreed with their gaming group to not use them to avoid continuous expenses.

It also helps to have some entries in there that almost everyone would check to get a rough idea of how many people actually voted

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Jidmah wrote:
True, but some people here on dakka allegedly have agreed with their gaming group to not use them to avoid continuous expenses.

It also helps to have some entries in there that almost everyone would check to get a rough idea of how many people actually voted




On the same lines though, when we see a new strong army or option people push to ban it.
That’s not really an optional rule, it’s more of a players preference.

Also, keep in mind that whining players are a big part of 40k, if they don’t like something (despite how it actually plays) then they complain endlessly and push to ban it.
We could end up with 90% of the units in the game being “optional” at that point lol.
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.




All models are optional so please don’t go down that route.
There is not a specific set of models required for every army that you must take.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.


Different things. None of the miniatures are themselves required, but PA and FW are not optional in the sense that you'd require an additional agreement from your opponent to use them like you'd need with Cities of Death as an example. You can decline a game on any grounds if you want to, but you cannot require the other player to not use FW as such because they aren't any less core elements of the game than your "normal" main studio codex would be.

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Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






Jackal90 wrote:
On the same lines though, when we see a new strong army or option people push to ban it.
That’s not really an optional rule, it’s more of a players preference.

Also, keep in mind that whining players are a big part of 40k, if they don’t like something (despite how it actually plays) then they complain endlessly and push to ban it.
We could end up with 90% of the units in the game being “optional” at that point lol.

This is about finding out what the reality is, not about the future or motivation.

The "FW is not optional" argument has been as old as FW itself is, and while you have a hand full of people being very vocal about banning it, similar polls I've been doing going all the way back to 5th have usually had an overwhelming majority has no problem with it.
There is also the fact that a major tournament organizer - the ETC - bans FW in their events.

The main reason why I included forgeworld despite the danger of this thread derailing because of it is because I wanted to have direct comparison between how well received Legends is compared to other sources of rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 09:45:22


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





Jackal90 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.




All models are optional so please don’t go down that route.
There is not a specific set of models required for every army that you must take.


I'm not going down any route. They're expansions to the main game. Like how the books with extra monsters or campaign books are additional to the D&D source book.

 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






The base line to play a game of WH40k is an army codex and the BRB.
Outside of the first few games a new player plays, no one plays with less.

Anything beyond that is optional.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.




All models are optional so please don’t go down that route.
There is not a specific set of models required for every army that you must take.


I'm not going down any route. They're expansions to the main game. Like how the books with extra monsters or campaign books are additional to the D&D source book.




Then every single new army that is released should be treated as such.
As should any army past the first ones made.
They add on to the existing game and are therefore an expansion by your admittance, and entirely optional.
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





Jackal90 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.




All models are optional so please don’t go down that route.
There is not a specific set of models required for every army that you must take.


I'm not going down any route. They're expansions to the main game. Like how the books with extra monsters or campaign books are additional to the D&D source book.




Then every single new army that is released should be treated as such.
As should any army past the first ones made.
They add on to the existing game and are therefore an expansion by your admittance, and entirely optional.


Why are you being so reductive over something so dumb? Like what's your goal?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 10:31:58


 
   
Made in vn
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

So aside from Chapter Approved being pretty popular, and ITC being not particularly popluar, what interesting information can we glean from this poll.

Actually, never mind me. I didn't realize how young this poll is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 10:39:10


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
Technically, not every rule there is optional.

Using specific formats always is (but forms a lot of my games)

Stuff like PA, FW etc is part of the game, not an optional extra.


PA rules are optional supplements and FW are optional models. They are not required to play the game.




All models are optional so please don’t go down that route.
There is not a specific set of models required for every army that you must take.


I'm not going down any route. They're expansions to the main game. Like how the books with extra monsters or campaign books are additional to the D&D source book.




Then every single new army that is released should be treated as such.
As should any army past the first ones made.
They add on to the existing game and are therefore an expansion by your admittance, and entirely optional.


Why are you being so reductive over something so dumb? Like what's your goal?




Throwing out a straw man isn’t an argument.
I’m just pointing out flawed logic.
You cannot state that 2 things that work in the same way act differently just because “reasons unknown”

Every new book is an addition.
They are either all additions or all part of the core game, you cannot pick and choose to suit an argument.
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





But PA DOESN'T work the same way as a codex.

 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Sim-Life wrote:
But PA DOESN'T work the same way as a codex.

PA is optional if no one else in your play group uses it and doesn't play loyalist marines. If other players use it and you don't then you are generally at a disadvantage, and for most factions going up against loyalists without it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Of course mind even with it many are still bringing pistols against the marines assault rifles....
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
But PA DOESN'T work the same way as a codex.

PA is optional if no one else in your play group uses it and doesn't play loyalist marines. If other players use it and you don't then you are generally at a disadvantage, and for most factions going up against loyalists without it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Of course mind even with it many are still bringing pistols against the marines assault rifles....


That still doesn't't make it required to play the game.

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

Wow, I didn't realise just how much I didn't use.

Aside from some of the Open/Narrative stuff and Vigilus rules from time to time, I don't use anything on that list. If I had Forgeworld units, they'd be on there too, but as I don't, I didn't tick them off.

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Made in is
Courageous Beastmaster




Iceland

Seeing people's arguments for what is optional I would just say this:

Every single thing in this hobby is optional. Sure, we may have some shared ideas of what optional thing we like to keep, but at the core everything is optional. Especially since everything is decided beforehand by two or more players wanting to play a game. Hell, it is optional to play the game if you buy the models. You don't have to play anything and maybe are completely content with painting your miniature.

Only time things don't become optional is when you are participating in a tournament. Tournaments haave explicit rules of what you must abide by to be allowed to compete and are therefore, technically, not optional.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Sim-Life wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
But PA DOESN'T work the same way as a codex.

PA is optional if no one else in your play group uses it and doesn't play loyalist marines. If other players use it and you don't then you are generally at a disadvantage, and for most factions going up against loyalists without it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Of course mind even with it many are still bringing pistols against the marines assault rifles....


That still doesn't't make it required to play the game.


Only things that are required is 2 armies and the related rules for said armies.
That does not mean everything else is optional (to your own liking)
Unless something states it’s an addition to the rules and requires consent, it’s core rules.

If you don’t like it, make a house rule, simple.

As to the point of D&D additions, they all state that they are campaign additions and are entirely optional.
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Hey, Jakal,

Do you get the core concept here? Whether or not you agree that things are optional, Jidmah is asking what resources you use in addition to core rule book and the most current Codex for your faction/s.

Jidmah, if I misrepresented your core concept, please let me know.

Also, for future polls it might be an idea to have a line that just says, “I voted” to compare total number of voters. Someone might not use any, but couldn’t vote to indicate that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 13:11:29


 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play, any more than the SM Codex is not "optional" if you want to play Space Marines. By that logic I want my Index Commissars back because the codex and errata's are "optional".

The term "optional" is not the correct term to use.

To answer the question (replacing the word "optional" with "latest"), I use all the latest matched play rules, even if I dislike them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/15 13:10:23


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Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.

 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.

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+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 9th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One




UK

Yeah this really feels more of a "what rules does your local group exclude or ban from play."

You may not use some of the Vigilus stuff yourself in your list, but you can't stop someone else from using it.

And matched play rules are required. If you're going to ignore the updates from CA then why bother using the matched play rules from the rulebook either? You don't get to deep strike stuff in turn 1 (except if you're a drop pod) or cast Doom multiple times a turn. It is LITERALLY not allowed in the OFFICIAL rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 15:18:40


 
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.


Yes. I know you love to whinge about how 8th Ed makes you bring several hundred documents to a game but yes, if two people buy only a rulebook and their armies codexes they can play a game even without FAQs and erratas. It may not be a good game, but its still a playable game.

 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.


Yes. I know you love to whinge about how 8th Ed makes you bring several hundred documents to a game but yes, if two people buy only a rulebook and their armies codexes they can play a game even without FAQs and erratas. It may not be a good game, but its still a playable game.
That doesn't make the other rules optional, it means you're not following the rules.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 9th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.


Yes. I know you love to whinge about how 8th Ed makes you bring several hundred documents to a game but yes, if two people buy only a rulebook and their armies codexes they can play a game even without FAQs and erratas. It may not be a good game, but its still a playable game.
That doesn't make the other rules optional, it means you're not following the rules.


Which rules? The ones printed in the BRB? Those rules? The basework for which the optional supplements build upon? Those ones?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/15 15:27:45


 
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One




UK

 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
The CA19 matched play rules updates are not "optional" if you want to play matched play


Yes it is.
If you can play the game without it, its optional. This isn't a difficult concept and I don't understand why people are having a hard time grasping it.
So by that logic the errata and Codexes are optional too? Index and BRB only with zero errata was a hellish time, especially for things like Space Wolves where 90% of the list was broken.


Yes. I know you love to whinge about how 8th Ed makes you bring several hundred documents to a game but yes, if two people buy only a rulebook and their armies codexes they can play a game even without FAQs and erratas. It may not be a good game, but its still a playable game.
That doesn't make the other rules optional, it means you're not following the rules.


Which rules? The ones printed in the BRB? Those rules?


CA supersedes and overrides whatever the BRB says.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Everyone should give the core rules of Cities of Death a try (lucky shot, soft/hard cover, etc..) not really the mission rules or stratagems, just that first 2 pages of rules. They are really good, its what 8th should have had from the start.

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