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Hello again guys! So, since you guys have suggested against a Shattered Legion, and having deciding on a legion finally, I've made a 2000 point list based around tanks and such, because that's damn cool. It seems a little bare-bones though, and I'd love to fit in a Grav Gun Rapier Squad, but I don't know what I'd drop for it. Anyway, here is the list;

Legion and Allegiance: X: Iron Hands, Loyalist

Rite of War: The Head of the Gorgon

+ HQ +

Iron-father Autek Mor [635pts]
. Master of the Legion
. . Terminator Command Squad, Legion: Chainfist, 2x Combi-bolter, Plasma Blaster, 2x Power Fist, 3x Space Marine Chosen, Legion
. . . Land Raider Phobos: Blessed Autosimulacra, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons
. . . Standard Bearer, Legion: Combi-bolter, Power Axe

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth [80pts]

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [395pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla, Legion
. Land Raider Proteus: Blessed Autosimulacra, Hull-Mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons
. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Fist

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [395pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla, Legion
. Land Raider Proteus: Blessed Autosimulacra, Hull-Mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons
. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Fist

Tactical Support Squad, Legion Plasma Gun [235pts]: Plasma gun, Support Squad
. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion: Multi-melta
. Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Flamer
. 4x Space Marines, Legion: 4x Bolt Pistols, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades, 4x Power Armour

+ Heavy Support +

Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank [260pts]: Blessed Autosimulacra, Lascannon Sponsons
. Twin Arcus launcher: Skyspear Warheads

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

So, Orth goes in the Arcus to make it amazing at killing other tanks and flyers, and Autek Mor gives Preferred Enemy to the Plasma Support Squad. I'm thinking the Land Raiders will drop the Tacs at Objectives and then go try and kill other tanks with them, but I'm not sure if it's worth taking them over Rhinos, and putting the points into something else. What do you guys think, and what would you guys change? Also, any general advice for my first few games?

The issue with using land raiders as transports is that in a 2000 point list, you have almost 700 points tied up in 3 vehicles and the tactical squads inside 2 of the landraiders aren't going to get a lot of work done on the table. Plus the landraider proteus isn't an assault vehicle, so the tactical squads won't be able to charge when they disembark.

You also have over 600 points tied up in your HQ & retinue, which is a lot for a 2000 point list

I also feel that the list isn't set up to make the most of the rite of war, arguably the best benefits is being able to outflank tanks, things like sicarans, vindicators etc.

I would look at swapping the tactical squads into rhinos and drop the extra CC weapons, then get a standard sicaran for Orth to go in and maybe add a vindicator if you have the points.

The Land Raiders make this a pretty skew-y list; it'll wreck things not prepared for it, but you don't really have the firepower to counter a melee list and if someone's got a unit prepped to kill Land Raiders you don't really have much room for error. I'd second Varyn's suggestion to drop at least one Land Raider for a Rhino and use the points to get more tanks; demolisher Vindicators, Scorpii, Medusae, or blast-loaded Predators will help a lot keeping melee units off your force.

Alternately keep in mind that Autek Mor's got a Cortex Controller so you could take a Castellax or Vorax maniple, which would also plug your melee hole by giving you a unit most enemies really won't want to charge.

varyn wrote:The issue with using land raiders as transports is that in a 2000 point list, you have almost 700 points tied up in 3 vehicles and the tactical squads inside 2 of the landraiders aren't going to get a lot of work done on the table. Plus the landraider proteus isn't an assault vehicle, so the tactical squads won't be able to charge when they disembark.

You also have over 600 points tied up in your HQ & retinue, which is a lot for a 2000 point list

I also feel that the list isn't set up to make the most of the rite of war, arguably the best benefits is being able to outflank tanks, things like sicarans, vindicators etc.

I would look at swapping the tactical squads into rhinos and drop the extra CC weapons, then get a standard sicaran for Orth to go in and maybe add a vindicator if you have the points.

Yeah, that was the big problem I felt. Not enough points for all the vehicles, and I lose so much if one dies. Though I wasn't too concerned with charging out of them, the extra CQC weapons were mostly to keep them versatile.

Yeah, it is a lot, could probably drop the Land Raider and grab a Dreadclaw instead to get them where they would be needed, plus save a few points.

Why a standard Sicaran? Points reasons? The Arcus seems pretty nice with it's anti-tank and anti-air all in one. And would you keep the Siege Cannon on the Vindicator or add the Laser Destroyer Array? Both seem good, not really sure what would be better.

AnomanderRake wrote:The Land Raiders make this a pretty skew-y list; it'll wreck things not prepared for it, but you don't really have the firepower to counter a melee list and if someone's got a unit prepped to kill Land Raiders you don't really have much room for error. I'd second Varyn's suggestion to drop at least one Land Raider for a Rhino and use the points to get more tanks; demolisher Vindicators, Scorpii, Medusae, or blast-loaded Predators will help a lot keeping melee units off your force.

Alternately keep in mind that Autek Mor's got a Cortex Controller so you could take a Castellax or Vorax maniple, which would also plug your melee hole by giving you a unit most enemies really won't want to charge.

Yeah, that's very true, it'd be pretty one sided depending on what I'm up against. Dropping the Land Raiders makes the most sense, and I do like both Medusae and Vindicators. However, some Castellax would be pretty awesome to include... decisions, decisions! Maybe even take a Praevian to give them the Iron Hands -1 STR so they are immune to Boltguns?

 iwatchastartesyuri wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:The Land Raiders make this a pretty skew-y list; it'll wreck things not prepared for it, but you don't really have the firepower to counter a melee list and if someone's got a unit prepped to kill Land Raiders you don't really have much room for error. I'd second Varyn's suggestion to drop at least one Land Raider for a Rhino and use the points to get more tanks; demolisher Vindicators, Scorpii, Medusae, or blast-loaded Predators will help a lot keeping melee units off your force.

Alternately keep in mind that Autek Mor's got a Cortex Controller so you could take a Castellax or Vorax maniple, which would also plug your melee hole by giving you a unit most enemies really won't want to charge.

Yeah, that's very true, it'd be pretty one sided depending on what I'm up against. Dropping the Land Raiders makes the most sense, and I do like both Medusae and Vindicators. However, some Castellax would be pretty awesome to include... decisions, decisions! Maybe even take a Praevian to give them the Iron Hands -1 STR so they are immune to Boltguns?

Be aware that they've gone through and clarified what the Praevian actually does in the FAQ; he explicitly doesn't grant the benefits of his Legion rule to the Automata and the Iron Hands Praevian rule is free Blessed Autosimulacra.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 iwatchastartesyuri wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:The Land Raiders make this a pretty skew-y list; it'll wreck things not prepared for it, but you don't really have the firepower to counter a melee list and if someone's got a unit prepped to kill Land Raiders you don't really have much room for error. I'd second Varyn's suggestion to drop at least one Land Raider for a Rhino and use the points to get more tanks; demolisher Vindicators, Scorpii, Medusae, or blast-loaded Predators will help a lot keeping melee units off your force.

Alternately keep in mind that Autek Mor's got a Cortex Controller so you could take a Castellax or Vorax maniple, which would also plug your melee hole by giving you a unit most enemies really won't want to charge.

Yeah, that's very true, it'd be pretty one sided depending on what I'm up against. Dropping the Land Raiders makes the most sense, and I do like both Medusae and Vindicators. However, some Castellax would be pretty awesome to include... decisions, decisions! Maybe even take a Praevian to give them the Iron Hands -1 STR so they are immune to Boltguns?

Be aware that they've gone through and clarified what the Praevian actually does in the FAQ; he explicitly doesn't grant the benefits of his Legion rule to the Automata and the Iron Hands Praevian rule is free Blessed Autosimulacra.

Oh wow, really? I didn't know they changed that, that sucks. Welp, no Praevian then I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, what do you guys think of this?

+ Allegiance +

Legion and Allegiance: X: Iron Hands, Loyalist

Rite of War: The Head of the Gorgon

+ HQ +

Iron-father Autek Mor [225pts]

Spearhead-Centurion Castrmen Orth [80pts]

+ Elites +

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [260pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Support Unit
. Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Flamer, Maulter Bolt Cannon, Stock Chargers
. Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Flamer, Maulter Bolt Cannon, Stock Chargers

Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion [225pts]
. Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion: Graviton Cannon
. Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion: Graviton Cannon
. Rapier Weapons Battery, Legion: Graviton Cannon

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [230pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla, Legion
. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion: Multi-melta
. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Fist

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [230pts]: Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion
. Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla, Legion
. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion: Multi-melta
. Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Fist

Tactical Support Squad, Legion Plasma Gun [235pts]: Plasma gun, Support Squad
. Rhino Armoured Carrier, Legion: Multi-melta
. Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Flamer
. 4x Space Marines, Legion: 4x Bolt Pistols, 4x Frag and Krak Grenades, 4x Power Armour

+ Heavy Support +

Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank [265pts]: Blessed Autosimulacra, Dozer Blade, Lascannon Sponsons
. Twin Arcus launcher: Skyspear Warheads

Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron, Legion [250pts]
. Vindicator Tank, Legion: Blessed Autosimulacra, Combi-Bolter, Demolisher Cannon, Dozer Blade
. Vindicator Tank, Legion: Blessed Autosimulacra, Combi-Bolter, Demolisher Cannon, Dozer Blade

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Orth with the Venator and Autek Mor goes with the Castellax, giving Preferred Enemy to them and the Plasma Squad. This seems a lot better, outflanking the tanks to then shoot their ordinance into the sides/backs of opposing armour on T2-3. I can also use the Arcus as an anti-air platform if needed. I like the Tacs with extra CQC weapons, just to keep them versatile, but I'm not sure if it'd be worth getting the Armoured Ceramite instead.

This is definitely looking better

A few suggestions:

Split the vindicators into 2 separate units, you've got a spare heavy support slot, if they're a vehicle squadron and they get hit hard then you could potentially lose both vindicators at once. I would also recommend giving the vindicators power of the machine spirit, so when they outflank they can move and fire the demolisher cannon at full BS. I think the demolisher cannon is the better choice for outflanking vindicators due to the shorter range, the laser array is also very good, it has the extra 12" range which helps.

AnomanderRake's suggestion to take castellax is great advice, they're a fluffy addition and a fun unit to play on the table. I would also suggest that you give at least one of the castellax a siege wrecker, S10 is always useful!

The reason I suggested to put Orth in a standard sicaran is that the arcus variant is devastating and your opponent will often try and nuke it on turn 1, if they're successful then you've lost a 330 point unit. Plus the arcus is already so good that you could argue that the benefit orth provides to a vehicle would be better used on another chassis.

varyn wrote:
This is definitely looking better

A few suggestions:

Split the vindicators into 2 separate units, you've got a spare heavy support slot, if they're a vehicle squadron and they get hit hard then you could potentially lose both vindicators at once. I would also recommend giving the vindicators power of the machine spirit, so when they outflank they can move and fire the demolisher cannon at full BS. I think the demolisher cannon is the better choice for outflanking vindicators due to the shorter range, the laser array is also very good, it has the extra 12" range which helps.

AnomanderRake's suggestion to take castellax is great advice, they're a fluffy addition and a fun unit to play on the table. I would also suggest that you give at least one of the castellax a siege wrecker, S10 is always useful!

The reason I suggested to put Orth in a standard sicaran is that the arcus variant is devastating and your opponent will often try and nuke it on turn 1, if they're successful then you've lost a 330 point unit. Plus the arcus is already so good that you could argue that the benefit orth provides to a vehicle would be better used on another chassis.

That's a good point, I'll do that, just to make them a little more survivable. Power of the Machine Spirit seems really good too, and I do like the Demolisher Cannon, so I'll keep it I think. Or maybe get some Medusae instead, not 100% sure really. Which one would you say I should use?

I really like the Castellax idea too! Seems like a really fluffy bodyguard for Mor, plus they will just mulch infantry, which is always nice. The Siege Wrecker seems really good too, deterring charges even more and making them so much better at CQC, but I feel it wouldn't be used all that much.

That's true, it probably will try to be nuked asap. I do really like the look of it though, the model looks awesome, which is mainly why I wanted to use it, lol. Plus, without it I'm a little concerned about flyers, since I wouldn't have anything with skyfire.

Anyway, adding Power of the Machine Spirit puts me at 50 points over, and two Siege Wreckers puts me at 90 points over, I'm thinking I drop a Grav Rapier and the Dozer Blades, would that be the best idea? Or would you suggest dropping something else?

Keep in mind that Independent Characters can't join Monstrous Creatures (Praevians and the Magos Dominus have a specific exception). Right now you've got nowhere for Mor to hide.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Keep in mind that Independent Characters can't join Monstrous Creatures (Praevians and the Magos Dominus have a specific exception). Right now you've got nowhere for Mor to hide.

Well damn, I thought anyone with a Cortex Controller was able to join them, that removes that idea. Hmm, I guess I would have to drop them for Terminators then, which kind of sucks, they seem like such a fun unit.

I think your list is a lot better now. You should definitely find points for Power of The Machine Spirit on the Vindicators. Dropping a few upgrades elsewhere should make this possible.