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Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

So, the biggest news for me from today has been the reveal of Crusade, further compartmentalizing matched and tournament play stuff into it's own entirely separate thing, and focusing all of the awesome campaigns, narrative and historical scenarios, and such, into it's own channel of game development.

A clip I made from the stream: https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveChillyHornetRalpherZ

From the FAQ:

What’s this we’re hearing about Crusade?
We’re glad you asked, because we’re proper excited about
it. Crusade is a new system for narrative play that will allow
you to interact with your Warhammer 40,000 collection in a
deeper, more meaningful way.
If you love the lore of Warhammer 40,000, narrative in your
games, campaigns, meaningful battles, and collecting an
army to a theme – you’re going to love Crusade.


So, from the information revealed, it appears you'll make an army which will gain experience, abilities, and models and heroes can be injured and actually die (they mentioned a Marine captain being so injured he'll have to be interred into a Dreadnought). The fact that it's not self contained within a single group (like AOS's Path to Glory) means you'll be able to taking your army Crusading against whomever and wherever, including against someone who isn't doing a Crusade. So perhaps like Path to Glory with Mordheim mixed in?

How do ya'll think they'll pull this off? I can imagine you might register your army in the new 40k app and perhaps record battles there?

Exciting times for narrative groups. For those of us who only do asymmetric battles with power levels as a rough balancing guide, this looks to be perfect.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/23 19:54:15


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

I can easily foresee a "Crusade" game forming at the local shop.

Last fall a couple of us got a Path to Glory game going. It's now up to 11 players & we were about midway through our 3rd "season" when Coronavirus madness derailed everything.
A few players commented that they wished there was a similar system for 40k (just nobody really wanted to write one up from scratch & no ones interested in KT). And after the nice boost we gave AoS sales, no doubt the shop owner would love a PtG:40K style game.

This of course assumes we can make anything work in the current Covid environment.....
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Previous editions had experience systems for use in campaigns.

Units gain xp, level up and gain extra special rules, if they level up enough they become Elites choices.
Characters roll on a persistant injuries table if they die.

It'll probably just be that repackaged.
Plus extra sets of cards and faction specific tables because that's what's needed these days for immersion.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

It will be interesting to see how it works.

XP driven systems are great for regulars who get games in. Not so much for sporadic players like myself. The other issue I have is with my large collection, what I field can vary wildly. So tracking XP for units might be weird.

I also worry that if you don’t have a dreadnought ready to load, it might be disheartening to have your favorite captain cop a bolt round to the head and have to be retired.

Once this comes out I’ll take a look at it and see if The Boy wants to set something up. But even if the FLGS sets up a league, I’m probably not going to be able to make it enough to be worth it.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 13K+ Slowly growing 3Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




Kill Team is still around as of release, but this will kill it.

Not saying it will be any worse than Kill Team; it might even be better. I'll buy it and play it and like it, because I'm a campaign player.

But I hope there aren't a lot of backyard fire bans this year, because I'm going to need to do something with my $250 worth of Kill Team books.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Not sure how a system designed for narrative campaigns with standard sized armies competes with a system designed for pickup games with single-box squads, but all right.
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

One of the things I was wistfully imagining was them putting more effort into Narrative play than just matched without restrictions. Don't be a dick.

So I'm pleasantly surprised to see this. Eagerly awaiting more info.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




 Arachnofiend wrote:
Not sure how a system designed for narrative campaigns with standard sized armies competes with a system designed for pickup games with single-box squads, but all right.


You could very well be right here- I'm just in a bit of a bad headspace on the new edition.

When they make a big deal about 9th ed playing games of all sizes, it suggests a phase out of both KT and Apocalypse.

The reason I got my wires crossed is that when I campaign, which is always, I do it escalation style. You are absolutely correct to point out that the escalation element may not be a part of Crusade.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

As much as GW has tried to push "Narrative" gaming over the years, mostly it's just felt like an excuse to paper over the game's faults, they've really never offered actual rules support or mechanics for it, at least that wasn't just some sort of repackaged standard pickup play with extra randomness or bonus power abilities to a side and some suggestions on how to link such missions together based on whoever won the last game. Certainly nothing like what other games such as Battletech (where you could get as deep as you wanted managing the details of a mercenary company on campaign and having to manage repairs, finances to purchase weapons and recruit pilots, salvaging equipment, rotating injured pilots, charter passage between worlds, planning routes across warzones and planets, etc), Heavy Gear, Dropzone Commander, etc have.

Until we actually see some details, I'm not going to hold my breath too much, though it'd be nice to be proven wrong.


In terms of details I'd like to see, it'd be neat to see stuff like how an Aspiring Champion moves up to become a Lord through the "untimely" death of their old master in battle, and being given conditions for ascendancy to Daemonhood, or a battle over securing a fuel depot opening greater access to vehicles for an initially light planetary landing force and the like. What I really don't want to see is "well we won the last game and now my Russ tanks hit on a 3+ in the next game!" or "here's a 'fluffy' mission for Eldar where their assembled psychic might lets them reroll all failed psychic tests and they get to all charge after Advancing...because reasons!" as GW has historically done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/23 23:53:59


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

Heavy Gear Painting Log, Northern Guard, Southern Republican Army, and Terrain
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Kill team does have a campaign system, leveling up, and wounded/out of action rules.

It’s not a bad comparison with the crusade system, and might in fact be the basis of it. We just don’t know at this point

Time will tell.

I’d love to see a consolidated KT rulebook. I’ve perused a number of the expansions, but the cost to own all the rules is crazy for a little skirmish game.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 13K+ Slowly growing 3Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Vaktathi wrote:
As much as GW has tried to push "Narrative" gaming over the years, mostly it's just felt like an excuse to paper over the game's faults, they've really never offered actual rules support or mechanics for it, at least that wasn't just some sort of repackaged standard pickup play with extra randomness or bonus power abilities to a side and some suggestions on how to link such missions together based on whoever won the last game.


I have to disagree completely. Every single one of the two player battle boxes has had a really fun campaign in it. Urban Conquest was an absolute blast to play, one of my favorite GW releases ever. Every supplement they've released has been chock full of narrative scenarios. All of that stuff is literally the sole reason I started playing 40k again after a decade. Seems like a lot of people just skip right over all the excellent narrative scenarios on the way to finding out if their favorite heavy weapon went down by two points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PenitentJake wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Not sure how a system designed for narrative campaigns with standard sized armies competes with a system designed for pickup games with single-box squads, but all right.


You could very well be right here- I'm just in a bit of a bad headspace on the new edition.

When they make a big deal about 9th ed playing games of all sizes, it suggests a phase out of both KT and Apocalypse.

The reason I got my wires crossed is that when I campaign, which is always, I do it escalation style. You are absolutely correct to point out that the escalation element may not be a part of Crusade.



The accompanying images showed a smaller 30 power level looking game, such as a campaign box or starter set, and then a massive 100 power level game. I guess in points terms like 1000 versus 3000 points? Though most of the most fun I've had playing 40k have been at the 25-35 power level, certainly much too large for 22x30 Kill Team ultraskirmish.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

 judgedoug wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
As much as GW has tried to push "Narrative" gaming over the years, mostly it's just felt like an excuse to paper over the game's faults, they've really never offered actual rules support or mechanics for it, at least that wasn't just some sort of repackaged standard pickup play with extra randomness or bonus power abilities to a side and some suggestions on how to link such missions together based on whoever won the last game.


I have to disagree completely. Every single one of the two player battle boxes has had a really fun campaign in it. Urban Conquest was an absolute blast to play, one of my favorite GW releases ever. Every supplement they've released has been chock full of narrative scenarios. All of that stuff is literally the sole reason I started playing 40k again after a decade. Seems like a lot of people just skip right over all the excellent narrative scenarios on the way to finding out if their favorite heavy weapon went down by two points.

I'll admit I haven't played Urban Conquest but the stuff generally presented in the core rulebooks, and previous offerings like the Crusade of Fire campaign supplement or the old Planetstrike were not of terribly high quality.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

Heavy Gear Painting Log, Northern Guard, Southern Republican Army, and Terrain
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Once again, I expect if you look at the narrative development campaign rules in each faction book for Age of Sigmar, you will find the beginnings of the Crusade rules that they are bringing to 40k.

Really, it seems like Age of Sigmar is being used as the test bed for a lot of the rules that ultimately make it into 40k.
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

Having watched the Twitch stream yesterday, I am super impressed by how much effort they are putting into making narrative play a wholly separate gaming experience than matched play.

@RuneGrey, I'm totally in agreement with that. It seems like they are very much taking the AOS2 approach with matched play, and having a set number of highly tested scenarios just for matched play (especially with the XYZ force sizes). I feel like, to them, 'narrative' 40k is 'normal' 40k while matched play is now just a separate module for the game. That's wonderful. I hope they do the AOS2 approach where a matched play person just needs the Gaming Book and points values to do matched, which opened up each supplement to be about 95% narrative and campaign stuff.

You could physically see how excited the GW guys are for Crusade and narrative gaming. That, coupled with the rules massages they discussed for 9, has gotten me pretty damn stoked for 40k9.

Narrative and Crusade tidbits I picked up:

- being able to use terrain tags for rules sounds great. much more easy to define custom boards, custom terrain, etc.
- so core book has Crusade system. "breadth of content to get stuck into". new 9th codex books will have new Crusade specific rules for that army (cough Path To Glory cough), specific Crusade missions in new codices, Crusade army specific rules are based on the background of the army, but can start from day 1 from core rulebook
- in crusade you get requisition points to upgrade old units, recruit new units, and replace dead units. permadeath in crusade? "crusade is ultimate way to create narrative with your own force"
- Crusade is your own narrative, can play against anyone playing Crusade or any other army from any person. Crusade is independent from a closed league. can do all, committed group, irregular group, or no group. Crusade armies will still have their agendas and whatnot so you can still independently score victories for your army despite losing to some random non Crusade person

- a lot of the other 40k9 tweaks I feel aren't that relevant to me; I don't think I've encountered a loyal 32 or CP battery situation in my normal course of playing 40k, but my group doesn't use points or has ever experienced some of the shenanigans they mentioned in the stream ("drawing LOS through three tiny windows across the board to see someone's toe", that's insane). That being said it sounds like it'll play smoother, like AOS2 over AOS1.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/27 14:14:03


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
 
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