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Ok, I get that the emprah fought the void dragon c'tan on earth and locked him up on mars to create the ad mech because his super future vision told him he'd need them. So the void dragon was the machine god at first.

Now here's 40k thematic question for everyone: Could the machine god actually exist as a separate being in the warp now because so many people have believed in it and worshiped it so devoutly for so long?

I remember something about the ork gods exist because the orks believe they do. Could an actual machine god separate from the void dragon now exist by the belief of it's followers as a maybe lesser entity in the warp but still as a minor warp god?

Just something I've wondered about for a while, looking forward to a civil discussion on it.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, I get that the emprah fought the void dragon c'tan on earth and locked him up on mars to create the ad mech because his super future vision told him he'd need them. So the void dragon was the machine god at first.

That doesn't strike me as a solid interpretation. The 'dragon' was defeated sometime in the middle ages, there obviously weren't humans on mars at the time. The Ad Mech (Cult mechanicus) basically formed independently during the Age of Strife, on the foundations that go back to the beginning of the Dark Age of Technology

The idea that many even know of the Dragon is unlikely, and of the tiny minority that do, actually worshiping it as the Machine God seems even more unlikely.
I think the idea that its more widespread is mostly an artifact of the POV of the novels (particularly Mechanicum) and rulebooks- as readers we know so much more than the actual characters do.


The schism that formed the Dark Mechanicum, for example, was more about wanting to pursue technologies that were forbidden by the treaty between Mars and Earth (notably AI among other things).

Now here's 40k thematic question for everyone: Could the machine god actually exist as a separate being in the warp now because so many people have believed in it and worshiped it so devoutly for so long?

I remember something about the ork gods exist because the orks believe they do. Could an actual machine god separate from the void dragon now exist by the belief of it's followers as a maybe lesser entity in the warp but still as a minor warp god?

Just something I've wondered about for a while, looking forward to a civil discussion on it.

Imperial cult canon is that the machine god is an aspect of the Emperor. The 'clockwork Emperor' as it has been put in a couple novels- at least thats the view from outside the AdMech.
Within the AdMech, he's regarded an Avatar of the Machine God, at least officially.

My intuitive thought is no - a separate name isn't enough for the collected worship/warp energy/whatever to make a new entity.

And my reasoning is based on the existence of Chaos cults. Not every cult worships using the exact name of their patron god. For example if a cult sacrifices people to Tzeentch but call him the Rainbow One it doesn't change Tzeentch getting the benefit of their killing.

Similarly I think if the Admech is actually feeding the Void Dragon calling it something different isn't going to change how their worship is being channeled.

Voss wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, I get that the emprah fought the void dragon c'tan on earth and locked him up on mars to create the ad mech because his super future vision told him he'd need them. So the void dragon was the machine god at first.

That doesn't strike me as a solid interpretation. The 'dragon' was defeated sometime in the middle ages, there obviously weren't humans on mars at the time. The Ad Mech (Cult mechanicus) basically formed independently during the Age of Strife, on the foundations that go back to the beginning of the Dark Age of Technology

The idea that many even know of the Dragon is unlikely, and of the tiny minority that do, actually worshiping it as the Machine God seems even more unlikely.
I think the idea that its more widespread is mostly an artifact of the POV of the novels (particularly Mechanicum) and rulebooks- as readers we know so much more than the actual characters do.


The schism that formed the Dark Mechanicum, for example, was more about wanting to pursue technologies that were forbidden by the treaty between Mars and Earth (notably AI among other things).

Now here's 40k thematic question for everyone: Could the machine god actually exist as a separate being in the warp now because so many people have believed in it and worshiped it so devoutly for so long?

I remember something about the ork gods exist because the orks believe they do. Could an actual machine god separate from the void dragon now exist by the belief of it's followers as a maybe lesser entity in the warp but still as a minor warp god?

Just something I've wondered about for a while, looking forward to a civil discussion on it.

Imperial cult canon is that the machine god is an aspect of the Emperor. The 'clockwork Emperor' as it has been put in a couple novels- at least thats the view from outside the AdMech.
Within the AdMech, he's regarded an Avatar of the Machine God, at least officially.

The novel mechanicum pretty much said the emperor defeated the vodi dragon and somehow put him on mars to create the admech. I'ts one i did read.

Yes. with 10k years of constant worship there should be a machine god in the warp.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, I get that the emprah fought the void dragon c'tan on earth and locked him up on mars to create the ad mech because his super future vision told him he'd need them. So the void dragon was the machine god at first.

Semyon - the character telling the story of the Emperor fighting the Dragon - specifically says that he doesn't know what, if any, of it is true; the story is internally inconsistant (a soldier of Diocletion in the Middle Ages), and makes no logical sense (the Dragon is subdued by the Emperor tying a banner aroundf its neck, and then takes it to Mars despite a pre-induistrial technology level), and earlier in the novel there is a scene where Dahlia specifically states that tales of Dragon slaying are metaphorical.

This is why we can't have nice things!