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I mean Magnus and Lorgar used pretty open and flamboyant displays of Psyker strength such as Magnus killing tank crews by suddenly biomancing their body temperature up by a thousand degrees causing them to explode in a hot red msit, or Lorgar eviscerating entire Astartes squads with telekinetic powers.

Other Primarchs fought by guns&melee. Why weren't they seeking out these powers? Like let's say Rogal Dorn seeking to use fulmination or Vulkan seeking to use Pyromancy.

You have to understand that part of it had to do with the fact that every Primarch was different when it came to unlocking their psychic potential. and how it revealed itself was different for each one. So while you do have glamorous examples of masters like Lorgar and Magnus going full ham, a lot of their psychic abilities, like with Curze and Sanguinius, were more low-key with precognition.

Furthermore, there was a lot of stigma using psychic powers brazenly and openly without restraint. A lot of what happened during the Age of Strife had to deal with psykers being let loose and being possessed by either Enlsavers or Daemons which was why humanity was isolated and broken off from each other. That's why you have guys like Mortarion and other conservative hard-liners that backed up the eventual Edict of Nikea. The Emperor was also very clear that he did NOT want people perusing around in the warp, it's clear he never explicitly told the Primarchs they were all psykers in waiting. That's why for the one who already was on the path to psychic mastery, Magnus, he gave a cautionary tale of overstepping one's limits which went unheeded and thus led to his downfall.

So without a proper teacher, no real system on how to research/explore their psychic abilities, institutional bias against it, and even generally not being aware of their own potential, that's why outside of fringe cases like Magnus you didn't have every Primarch going full Super-Saiyan with their potential powers.

Angron probably couldn't use any psychic powers as the butchers' nails were usually deadly to those who did. Of course, after he became a daemon, using such powers would have been anathema to his existence as a servant of Khorne.

I think grimskul nailed it. Between being told not to, and the results of those that did, the risks seem high.

It’s also a skill that requires time and energy to learn. There are plenty of skills people could learn that would make them more effective, but we choose not to devote the time to learning them.

 Polonius wrote:
I think grimskul nailed it. Between being told not to, and the results of those that did, the risks seem high.

It’s also a skill that requires time and energy to learn. There are plenty of skills people could learn that would make them more effective, but we choose not to devote the time to learning them.

Exactly, and given that the Great Crusade was all about gathering humanity together on a strict time span, it's not surprising that most Primarchs would opt for more practical and direct methods of conquering. The majority of Primarchs based their preferred tactics on the upbringing, so it's no surprise that only Magnus, who was the only one raised in a pro-psyker society, really tapped into his potential.

There's also the fact that some Primarchs were just blunts too

"Blunts"
Khan: I think it was his friend Magnus that said he had no psychic power whatsoever.
Russ: No power that we were aware of.
Gulliman: Super-OCD?
Manus: None that we know of.
Fulgrim: None that we know of, until he became a Daemon Primarch.
The Lion: None that we know of.
Perturabo: None that we know of.
Angron: None that we know of; Butcher's Nails.
Dorn: ?
Vulkan: ?
Horus: None that we know of before Falling.

"Psykers"
Lorgar
Magnus
Sanguinius: future sight / precognition
Corax: obfuscation.
Mortarion: Had a minor psyker gift but refused to utilize it. / passionately hated psykers. And even though he is now a Daemon Primarch still is basically a novice psyker.

"Maybe's"
Alpharius/Omegon: twin bond? (if that can be called psychic).
Curze: death premonition?

 Lord Clinto wrote:
There's also the fact that some Primarchs were just blunts too

"Blunts"
Khan: I think it was his friend Magnus that said he had no psychic power whatsoever.
Russ: No power that we were aware of.
Gulliman: Super-OCD?
Manus: None that we know of.
Fulgrim: None that we know of, until he became a Daemon Primarch.
The Lion: None that we know of.
Perturabo: None that we know of.
Angron: None that we know of; Butcher's Nails.
Dorn: ?
Vulkan: ?
Horus: None that we know of before Falling.

"Psykers"
Lorgar
Magnus
Sanguinius: future sight / precognition
Corax: obfuscation.
Mortarion: Had a minor psyker gift but refused to utilize it. / passionately hated psykers. And even though he is now a Daemon Primarch still is basically a novice psyker.

"Maybe's"
Alpharius/Omegon: twin bond? (if that can be called psychic).
Curze: death premonition?

Russ had his psychic howl that could inhibit other psykers.

Lion apparently could get his sword to light on fire.

Perturabo had the instant learning power and ability to absorb, organize and act on a huge number of information in a short amount of time.

In The First Heretic Lorgar comments that his psychic gift is unreliable, and it's kind of the climax of the novel where he decides that he's going to rely on it anyways. He's also known as the weakling Primarch.

According to Slave of Nuceria, pre-Nails Angron had psychic healing powers. More specifically, the ablity to relieve the pain of others by taking it upon himself.

I think it is misleading to think of any primarch as being 'not a psyker'. They were all sorcerous creations, essentially artificial daemon princes poured into genetically enhanced host bodies.

Nurglitch wrote:
In The First Heretic Lorgar comments that his psychic gift is unreliable, and it's kind of the climax of the novel where he decides that he's going to rely on it anyways. He's also known as the weakling Primarch.

In fairness to him I believe he did get better as the Heresy progressed and was decent once he went demon. Until Corax went demonic and kicked his ass. Again.

 Duskweaver wrote:
According to Slave of Nuceria, pre-Nails Angron had psychic healing powers. More specifically, the ablity to relieve the pain of others by taking it upon himself.

I think it is misleading to think of any primarch as being 'not a psyker'. They were all sorcerous creations, essentially artificial daemon princes poured into genetically enhanced host bodies.

You can have non-psyker daemons.

Nurglitch wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
According to Slave of Nuceria, pre-Nails Angron had psychic healing powers. More specifically, the ablity to relieve the pain of others by taking it upon himself.

I think it is misleading to think of any primarch as being 'not a psyker'. They were all sorcerous creations, essentially artificial daemon princes poured into genetically enhanced host bodies.

You can have non-psyker daemons.

You can but if you're artificially creating demigods with magic you'd want them to be able to use it.

pm713 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
In The First Heretic Lorgar comments that his psychic gift is unreliable, and it's kind of the climax of the novel where he decides that he's going to rely on it anyways. He's also known as the weakling Primarch.

In fairness to him I believe he did get better as the Heresy progressed and was decent once he went demon. Until Corax went demonic and kicked his ass. Again.

Yeah. When that trap blew up on Angron and got him trapped beneath hundreds of meters of rock and metal, didn't Lorgar save him by getting in touch with Angron telepathically making him wake up while also telekinetically hurling away the rocks and metal on Angron while eviscerating any enemy force approaching with his telekinetics.

Lorgar psychically blocks a shot from a warhound titan's plasma blastgun. Man ADB writes such amazingly epic scenes...

Frankly, there's just no reason to assume any other Primarch had the psychic potential of Magnus or even Lorgar, even discounting the myriad reasons why they might choose not to hone the talents they have.

Why would Lorgar have an abnormal psychic potential? I see why Magnus does but not Lorgar.

I’m isn’t the idea that all the primarchs have a strong warp presence but for many of them it works on a level of intuition rather than controllable power, like Magnus. They all have an image defender against psychic attacks and can sense psykers and have an intuition about the warp and a connection to each other and the emperor but for most it ends there. Although that’s pretty solid

pm713 wrote:
Why would Lorgar have an abnormal psychic potential? I see why Magnus does but not Lorgar.

This is kind of a ridiculous question on par with "Why would Yao Ming be abnormally tall? I could see why Shaq is, but not Yao Ming."

Some people are more talented than others at certain things. You might as well ask why Perturabo would be abnormally intelligent compared to his brothers (he was, arguably the most intelligent of all of them with a superhumanly intuitive understanding of basically everything).

If Magnus is the Michael Jordan of psychic potential among the Primarchs, Lorgar is simply the Lebron James.

Also about Lorgar's powers, a lot of his Psyker potential awakened after he jumped Team Chaos. So could a lot of his psyker power be instead Chaos Sorcery and the Chaos Gods acting through Lorgar giving him power?

mrFickle wrote:
I’m isn’t the idea that all the primarchs have a strong warp presence but for many of them it works on a level of intuition rather than controllable power, like Magnus. They all have an image defender against psychic attacks and can sense psykers and have an intuition about the warp and a connection to each other and the emperor but for most it ends there. Although that’s pretty solid

This actually isn't true and is a widely-parroted misconception.

With the exception of Leman Russ the Primarchs are NOT innately more resistant to psychic powers. Their vastly superhuman durability and ability to heal much more grievous wounds than basically any other organism in the galaxy helps them survive psychic assaults and against most psykers they are so quick on the draw they can kill them before they can do any damage sure, but when actually forced to endure them?

Leman Russ notes that he seems to have an innate resistance to psychic powers that allowed him to survive Magnus' assault which would have grievously wounded or killed his other brothers.

Lorgar is able to easily telepathically compel Horus in Aurelian, and in Betrayer using Enuncia broke Angron's nose and sent him flying as a mere demonstration.

Malcador was able to knock out Angron with a touch, and at one point psychically strangled Horus who was helpless to resist it, with Jaghatai Khan literally begging him not to kill his brother.

Now, so far I've only brought up the three most powerful humanish psykers short of the Emperor himself true, but most damningly, in Know No Fear Kor Phaeron was able to get a psychic barrage off on Guilliman that devastated him and brought him down, with Guilliman only prevailing because Kor Phaeron tried to corrupt Guilliman with the athame rather than just finish him off.

A lot of the Primarchs had psychic abilities yeah, but psychic resistance doesn't seem to be one of them.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Why would Lorgar have an abnormal psychic potential? I see why Magnus does but not Lorgar.

This is kind of a ridiculous question on par with "Why would Yao Ming be abnormally tall? I could see why Shaq is, but not Yao Ming."

Some people are more talented than others at certain things. You might as well ask why Perturabo would be abnormally intelligent compared to his brothers (he was, arguably the most intelligent of all of them with a superhumanly intuitive understanding of basically everything).

If Magnus is the Michael Jordan of psychic potential among the Primarchs, Lorgar is simply the Lebron James.

People aren't designed at a genetic level. Lorgar being a naturally good psyker is weird when he's so bad at everything else.

That comparison means nothing to me.

Nurglitch wrote:
You can have non-psyker daemons.

You can have daemons that don't fling around bolts of warp-lightning, sure. But even a bloodthirster is literally made out of psychic energy. A bloodthirster chopping you in half with its axe is still technically killing you with the power of the warp. All daemons are manifestations of psychic phenomena. As are all primarchs.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I’m isn’t the idea that all the primarchs have a strong warp presence but for many of them it works on a level of intuition rather than controllable power, like Magnus. They all have an image defender against psychic attacks and can sense psykers and have an intuition about the warp and a connection to each other and the emperor but for most it ends there. Although that’s pretty solid

This actually isn't true and is a widely-parroted misconception.

With the exception of Leman Russ the Primarchs are NOT innately more resistant to psychic powers. Their vastly superhuman durability and ability to heal much more grievous wounds than basically any other organism in the galaxy helps them survive psychic assaults and against most psykers they are so quick on the draw they can kill them before they can do any damage sure, but when actually forced to endure them?

Leman Russ notes that he seems to have an innate resistance to psychic powers that allowed him to survive Magnus' assault which would have grievously wounded or killed his other brothers.

Lorgar is able to easily telepathically compel Horus in Aurelian, and in Betrayer using Enuncia broke Angron's nose and sent him flying as a mere demonstration.

Malcador was able to knock out Angron with a touch, and at one point psychically strangled Horus who was helpless to resist it, with Jaghatai Khan literally begging him not to kill his brother.

Now, so far I've only brought up the three most powerful humanish psykers short of the Emperor himself true, but most damningly, in Know No Fear Kor Phaeron was able to get a psychic barrage off on Guilliman that devastated him and brought him down, with Guilliman only prevailing because Kor Phaeron tried to corrupt Guilliman with the athame rather than just finish him off.

A lot of the Primarchs had psychic abilities yeah, but psychic resistance doesn't seem to be one of them.

They all have Adamantium Will, a rule for psychic resistance, in the HH game.

pm713 wrote:

People aren't designed at a genetic level.

This doesn't really help your point, because then one could easily just say "Because the Emperor made him that way".

Lorgar being a naturally good psyker is weird when he's so bad at everything else.

Also kind of a ridiculous statement, given that psychic potential is completely divorced from any physical skill. It's purely bs sci fi magic.

Also, that's just not true. Lorgar was bar none the single best orator among the Primarchs, and only Horus was Lorgar's equal in diplomacy. He also was one of the best Primarchs when it came to rebuilding the worlds he brought into compliance, with only Guilliman and I think Dorn regularly rivaling him when it came to leaving the worlds he conquered better off than they were before.

He is also in-universe at least considered a gifted philosopher, being essentially the man who laid the foundation for the Imperial religion even ten thousand years later, and with Primarchs like Leman Russ actually lending credence toward some of his writings on the Imperium's vision.

No, Lorgar had plenty of talents, just not the ones his father or most of his brothers valued.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nurglitch wrote:

They all have Adamantium Will, a rule for psychic resistance, in the HH game.

Ah, if I'm honest with you I don't really care tbh lol. The HH game also has Lion El'Jonson being physically stronger than Leman Russ (who was explicitly stronger, the Lion being the faster of the two).

Game mechanics don't equate to fluff. The latter takes precedence on this board.

So the issue here might be that I just have a suuuuper low opinion of Lorgar then?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:

They all have Adamantium Will, a rule for psychic resistance, in the HH game.

Ah, if I'm honest with you I don't really care tbh lol. The HH game also has Lion El'Jonson being physically stronger than Leman Russ (who was explicitly stronger, the Lion being the faster of the two).

Game mechanics don't equate to fluff. The latter takes precedence on this board.

All the game mechanics are is fluff. That aside, that's the lovely thing about the fluff is that it can be whatever we want. Canonically they're all unusually resistant to magic.

Nurglitch wrote:

All the game mechanics are is fluff.

They're not.

Canonically they're all unusually resistant to magic.

Please by all means prove they are using the actual fluff, and not the game mechanics. =)

Game mechanics are 100% based on fluff but still shouldn't be used as evidence in a fluff discussion. The biggest example of that being the fact that battles don't take place with 2 equal sides a small distance apart.

Sorry, prove? Heh...

Corax is not a psyker. He specifically says so in Deliverance Lost.

The ability to disappear is potentially a Pariah trait, rather than a psychic ability, which lines up with the fact that out of all his brothers when he first meets the Emperor he sees the old man 'revalation' not the golden giant - which rather surprises the Emperor.

Lorgar is a so-so psyker. What makes him terrifying - and why he suddenly pivots to near-godlike levels - is that he's a -THE - Sorceror.

Sorcerers, rather than psykers, draw most of their power from binding and compelling daemons and warp flux rather than using their 'own' power. Lorgar isn't that much stronger a psykers than his own librarians, but as the Archpriest his ability to manipulate the powers of chaos is second to almost no-one. Horus Apostheosis and the Exalted Greater Daemons, maybe.


Also, some of the less psyker-ey primarchs could well be manifesting their 'power' in the form of what appears to be 'innate' strength as a biomantic effect