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From Tau faction focus.

"The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat. Thankfully, screening is about to become much more effective. You can also look at new kinds of screening units, like Kroot, since you can now escape even when you’re surrounded."

Massive change. Fly needs a few kicks in the teeth, as it's too good as is.

Yay!

Darkstrider and Stealth Suits, assuming they remain unchanged, just got a viable role for skirmishing!

And all those flying primaris tanks just lost one of their biggest advantages over real tanks. Good. Let's get some actual treads on the table.

Unless they end up being far more cost effective.

The 9th edition will see a lot of happy smurfs.

Not vs BA. I was tripointing them before, I'll keep tripointing them.

Nice to see the craftworlds preview holding up well. The nightspinner is really looking great with its blast weapon not being able to fire in combat and it now can't fall back and shoot so it just needs one bad touch and now it's largely useless.
Definitely a required change with the vehicle rules in 9th but it's ironic that one of the units picked out as a potential star has actually probably taken a pretty big next.

Do you seriously think that the showcased units aren't randomly selected?

I think they were written with 8th in mind.

 kingheff wrote:
Nice to see the craftworlds preview holding up well. The nightspinner is really looking great with its blast weapon not being able to fire in combat and it now can't fall back and shoot so it just needs one bad touch and now it's largely useless.
Definitely a required change with the vehicle rules in 9th but it's ironic that one of the units picked out as a potential star has actually probably taken a pretty big next.

The fact that Fly units got get out of jail free cards, and probably didn't really pay for it, was pretty stupid.

Fly in 8th is the best keyword outside of maybe character with 9 or less wounds. I really hope it gets properly nerfed, or gets a huge premium, because Fly is currently "play the game, but easier."

Edit: I hope this change is just 1 of a few.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
And all those flying primaris tanks just lost one of their biggest advantages over real tanks. Good. Let's get some actual treads on the table.

Tanks can still shoot into combat, so they didn't actually lose their advantage.

 kingheff wrote:
Nice to see the craftworlds preview holding up well. The nightspinner is really looking great with its blast weapon not being able to fire in combat and it now can't fall back and shoot so it just needs one bad touch and now it's largely useless.
Definitely a required change with the vehicle rules in 9th but it's ironic that one of the units picked out as a potential star has actually probably taken a pretty big next.

Ah, shucks. The poor night spinner with 48" range that can shoot from behind cover. Come on, man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
And all those flying primaris tanks just lost one of their biggest advantages over real tanks. Good. Let's get some actual treads on the table.

Tanks can still shoot into combat, so they didn't actually lose their advantage.

But tracked tanks can as well. So it comes down to point efficiency.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Nice to see the craftworlds preview holding up well. The nightspinner is really looking great with its blast weapon not being able to fire in combat and it now can't fall back and shoot so it just needs one bad touch and now it's largely useless.
Definitely a required change with the vehicle rules in 9th but it's ironic that one of the units picked out as a potential star has actually probably taken a pretty big next.

Ah, shucks. The poor night spinner with 48" range that can shoot from behind cover. Come on, man.

"If I get tagged, my unit isn't as good"

Sounds like like every non-flying vehicle in the game that doesn't have a Dreadnaught CCW.

Hang on, was my post that unclear? I said fly needed this with the new vehicle rules. If anything I'm suggesting that blast weapons may be a double edged sword since they can't fire into melee.

 kingheff wrote:
Hang on, was my post that unclear? I said fly needed this with the new vehicle rules. If anything I'm suggesting that blast weapons may be a double edged sword since they can't fire into melee.

Sorry - forum puts me on edge lately, which is my fault for reacting.

And all those flying primaris tanks just lost one of their biggest advantages over real tanks.

I'm sure they'll get a rule that allows them to ignore this one. lol

Overall I like this one. It just makes sense that if you have to focus on maneuvering out of CC, you probably can't also focus on shooting.

I was kind of hoping though, that they'd further differentiate the flyers. I think it's clumsy that a Eldar jet is in the same theoretical category as a Repulsor Executioner. I feel like maybe there should be one more classification that differentiates a hover tank from a actual jet or bomber. It's kind of silly to me that a Jet could get into actual CC, but it's NOT crazy for a hover tank.

Was hoping that, for example, if you had a flying Demon Prince executing a CC attack against a Hemlock, it would maybe attack as it flew by in the movement phase rather than in the actual CC phase. But then with hover tanks, you could still engage in proper CC. But yeah, over all, I think this is a good rules change.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
And all those flying primaris tanks just lost one of their biggest advantages over real tanks. Good. Let's get some actual treads on the table.

Tanks can still shoot into combat, so they didn't actually lose their advantage.

There is a huge difference between being able to fly away and shoot at what ever you want and staying in combat and being forced to shoot at what you are in combat with at a -1. Add on the fact that blast weapons wont work in combat and if you don't kill what you are in combat with, you end up still in combat with it during the combat phase. I would say they lost a significant advantage.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Hang on, was my post that unclear? I said fly needed this with the new vehicle rules. If anything I'm suggesting that blast weapons may be a double edged sword since they can't fire into melee.

Sorry - forum puts me on edge lately, which is my fault for reacting.

I find that happening to me too. Sometimes I spend 20 minutes writing a post only to delete it because it sounds so angry.

I've always tried hard to avoid writing that sounds like a personal attack, but lately it's getting harder. They don't sound like attacks, but sometimes condescending or snide. I've noticed that posts from different people blend and get mixed up in weird ways, so that like a total newb can walk in and ask an innocent question, and I'm all "Oh you're one of those WAAC our IGOUGO guys!"

And the poor newb is like, "IGO...Whhhaaatt?"

I found that recognizing I'm doing it is the hardest part. I think the whole world is a little crazy right now.

 kingheff wrote:
Nice to see the craftworlds preview holding up well. The nightspinner is really looking great with its blast weapon not being able to fire in combat and it now can't fall back and shoot so it just needs one bad touch and now it's largely useless.
Definitely a required change with the vehicle rules in 9th but it's ironic that one of the units picked out as a potential star has actually probably taken a pretty big next.

On the bright side night spinners should be among the most difficult units to bad touch since they can now move 16" and fire every turn with no penalty.

I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

 kingheff wrote:
I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

Think deeper, though. Not every list is Tau. Say its a Baal pred. I get to fire my Baal pred at the orks before I countercharge with some blood crazed BA assault unit. The tank doesn't have to work alone.

I wonder if the units with 'hit and run' that lost the rule in 8th will see it return.

Martel732 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

Think deeper, though. Not every list is Tau. Say its a Baal pred. I get to fire my Baal pred at the orks before I countercharge with some blood crazed BA assault unit. The tank doesn't have to work alone.

The Baal could finally be worthwhile. I don't I've ever even seen one.

Martel732 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

Think deeper, though. Not every list is Tau. Say its a Baal pred. I get to fire my Baal pred at the orks before I countercharge with some blood crazed BA assault unit. The tank doesn't have to work alone.

Not every army is blood angels either.

Tycho wrote:

And all those flying primaris tanks just lost one of their biggest advantages over real tanks.

I'm sure they'll get a rule that allows them to ignore this one. lol

Overall I like this one. It just makes sense that if you have to focus on maneuvering out of CC, you probably can't also focus on shooting.

I was kind of hoping though, that they'd further differentiate the flyers. I think it's clumsy that a Eldar jet is in the same theoretical category as a Repulsor Executioner. I feel like maybe there should be one more classification that differentiates a hover tank from a actual jet or bomber. It's kind of silly to me that a Jet could get into actual CC, but it's NOT crazy for a hover tank.

Was hoping that, for example, if you had a flying Demon Prince executing a CC attack against a Hemlock, it would maybe attack as it flew by in the movement phase rather than in the actual CC phase. But then with hover tanks, you could still engage in proper CC. But yeah, over all, I think this is a good rules change.

Flyers with the new Aircraft keyword will be able to just fly out of CC and still shoot, so that would seem to be the keyword you're looking for. And yes, the Hemlock's getting it.

 kingheff wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

Think deeper, though. Not every list is Tau. Say its a Baal pred. I get to fire my Baal pred at the orks before I countercharge with some blood crazed BA assault unit. The tank doesn't have to work alone.

Not every army is blood angels either.

Okay? How about Russ variants with non-blast weapons and bullgryns? Or Onagers and the lightning hands guys from Admech? Play with counter assault elements and you won't have to worry as much. Play pure gunline and I guess you have to worry

Thank God, I absolutely hated flying units falling back and shooting. This was an absolutely necessary change.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

Think deeper, though. Not every list is Tau. Say its a Baal pred. I get to fire my Baal pred at the orks before I countercharge with some blood crazed BA assault unit. The tank doesn't have to work alone.

The Baal could finally be worthwhile. I don't I've ever even seen one.

I"m sure it will be overcosted compared to primaris tanks.

 slave.entity wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
Nice to see the craftworlds preview holding up well. The nightspinner is really looking great with its blast weapon not being able to fire in combat and it now can't fall back and shoot so it just needs one bad touch and now it's largely useless.
Definitely a required change with the vehicle rules in 9th but it's ironic that one of the units picked out as a potential star has actually probably taken a pretty big next.

On the bright side night spinners should be among the most difficult units to bad touch since they can now move 16" and fire every turn with no penalty.

It can only be used once, but all the Aeldari factions have a stratagem to leave assault an still shoot. The rule is a significant change and will definitely require modifications to strategies and lists.

Martel732 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
I'm not a big fan of night spinners generally tbh so it's not something I'll be losing sleep over. Bad touching still looks like a very viable strategy against a lot of vehicles. Not many vehicles have enough guns to threaten a big unit of orc boyz, for example.

Think deeper, though. Not every list is Tau. Say its a Baal pred. I get to fire my Baal pred at the orks before I countercharge with some blood crazed BA assault unit. The tank doesn't have to work alone.

Not every army is blood angels either.

Okay? How about Russ variants with non-blast weapons and bullgryns? Or Onagers and the lightning hands guys from Admech? Play with counter assault elements and you won't have to worry as much. Play pure gunline and I guess you have to worry

For sure counter charge units will be essential in 9th. Hopefully all armies will find good solutions for bad touching, because I don't think it's going anywhere. The ability to stop your opponents big guns from targeting valuable units by tying them up with chaff isn't really made much more palatable because your super gun of doom kills three orcs instead.
Either that or you just deploy bigger amounts of screen and hide your bigger guns behind them, which is what will probably happen.