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Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Danmark

Hey guys.

Im an ork player, and a new warhammer 40k player in general. I have like 800 points worth of Ork units and only 1 Deff Dread.. well and a single Killa kan but what ever.

I was wondering, how well does Ork vehicles as shooting platforms work? I mean what are the odds of me hitting on 5's?

I know some vehicles give several shots, but do people ever use those weapons that only get 1 or 2 shots if they have another option?

Like lets take the Zapp gun. You get 1 shot. Or a rokkit Launcher, you get 1 shot.

You are most likely not going to hit with those weapons.

Also what about in general, do people just take ranged focused vehicles? like, the Gunwagon with a supa kannon. Does people use that?

Other ranged vehicles?

I know the Morkanaut is used though.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





With the dakkadakkadakka rule, ork shooting is very slightly worse than a 50-50 chance. I have used shooty ork stuff quite a lot. My favorites are Skrapjets, Kustom Boosta Blastas, Dragstas and Mek Gunz personally. I also use plenty of shooting infantry on trukks too like tankbustas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Typically the quantity of shooting yoi get is a bit more than for example guard shooting units that cost the same, and that offsets the penalty to hit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/26 14:53:48


 
   
Made in us
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Well, your odds to hit are 1 in 3, basically before Dakka, Dakka, Dakka.

Orks can have good shooting, but it is going to feel weaker, because sometimes you roll a gakload of dice and don't feel traction.

If you really want to shoot hard you should be looking at the Kustom Jobs in Saga of the Beast. There's one that turns the Gun Wagon's D6 Killkannon into a 2D6 version. Given that the Gunwagon double taps like a Leman Russ for 4D6 shots on a 15 point weapon. That gives it about 6 hits that are equivalent to a Battlecannon that always does 2 damage. Compare to an LRBT that gets 3.5 hits on average. There's also a Zzap Gun for the Gunwagon that does 3MW when you get S9+ on the roll and since you can fire twice you might get a bit lucky with it at times (no CP rerolls now though).

There's also a trait (but you sacrifice Deffskulls and others) that turns all Rokkits to S9 AP3 and all Stikkbombs (including Chukkas and Lobbas) to S4 AP1.




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/26 14:58:48


   
Made in us
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, your odds to hit are 1 in 3, basically before Dakka, Dakka, Dakka.

Orks can have good shooting, but it is going to feel weaker, because sometimes you roll a gakload of dice and don't feel traction.

If you really want to shoot hard you should be looking at the Kustom Jobs in Saga of the Beast. There's one that turns the Gun Wagon's D6 Killkannon into a 2D6 version. Given that the Gunwagon double taps like a Leman Russ for 4D6 shots on a 15 point weapon. That gives it about 6 hits that are equivalent to a Battlecannon that always does 2 damage. Compare to an LRBT that gets 3.5 hits on average. There's also a Zzap Gun for the Gunwagon that does 3MW when you get S9+ on the roll and since you can fire twice you might get a bit lucky with it at times (no CP rerolls now though).

There's also a trait (but you sacrifice Deffskulls and others) that turns all Rokkits to S9 AP3 and all Stikkbombs (including Chukkas and Lobbas) to S4 AP1.






Raw the kustom job gunwagon gun is useless because the rule that lets it shoot twice is tied to the regular Kilkannon and GW just never bothered to faq it because they could not care less.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





the_scotsman wrote:


Raw the kustom job gunwagon gun is useless because the rule that lets it shoot twice is tied to the regular Kilkannon and GW just never bothered to faq it because they could not care less.


True, but I give my buddy the benefit of the doubt. I'm just hoping the KFF doesn't get changed to not affect melee again.

I wonder when they'll finally get around to the rest of the PA books...

   
Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys.

Im an ork player, and a new warhammer 40k player in general. I have like 800 points worth of Ork units and only 1 Deff Dread.. well and a single Killa kan but what ever.

I was wondering, how well does Ork vehicles as shooting platforms work? I mean what are the odds of me hitting on 5's?

I know some vehicles give several shots, but do people ever use those weapons that only get 1 or 2 shots if they have another option?

Like lets take the Zapp gun. You get 1 shot. Or a rokkit Launcher, you get 1 shot.

You are most likely not going to hit with those weapons.

Also what about in general, do people just take ranged focused vehicles? like, the Gunwagon with a supa kannon. Does people use that?

Other ranged vehicles?

I know the Morkanaut is used though.


Well Morkanaut with appropriate kustom job hits on 4s which is awesome considering the wargear it has, Smasha Gunz also hit on 4s and they're quite cheap. SJD hits on 3s with its main weapon. Scrapjets are less accurate but extremely versatile and still have a good rate of fire to compensate the BS5+. KBB is a good anti infantry mobile option, just try to make use of its dedicated stratagem.

Tankbustas on trukks are very killy but also quite expensive, they need a list full of vehicles (aka target redundancy) to work but they're definitely viable. Wazbom Blastajet is also a decent shooting platform and grants a nice KFF bubble, very useful for mobile armies. The Gorkanaut is very good in killing primaris and tough infantries by shooting while it's an absolute monster in combat. Da Boomer is also good, but some RAW lawyer could give you trouble but in fact it should be able to fire twice with no problem and I'd avoid those kind of players anyway.

Some people also equip Deathskulls dreads with a couple of KMB; I prefer making them pure combat specialists but that option is absolutely legit.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Danmark

 Blackie wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys.

Im an ork player, and a new warhammer 40k player in general. I have like 800 points worth of Ork units and only 1 Deff Dread.. well and a single Killa kan but what ever.

I was wondering, how well does Ork vehicles as shooting platforms work? I mean what are the odds of me hitting on 5's?

I know some vehicles give several shots, but do people ever use those weapons that only get 1 or 2 shots if they have another option?

Like lets take the Zapp gun. You get 1 shot. Or a rokkit Launcher, you get 1 shot.

You are most likely not going to hit with those weapons.

Also what about in general, do people just take ranged focused vehicles? like, the Gunwagon with a supa kannon. Does people use that?

Other ranged vehicles?

I know the Morkanaut is used though.


Well Morkanaut with appropriate kustom job hits on 4s which is awesome considering the wargear it has, Smasha Gunz also hit on 4s and they're quite cheap. SJD hits on 3s with its main weapon. Scrapjets are less accurate but extremely versatile and still have a good rate of fire to compensate the BS5+. KBB is a good anti infantry mobile option, just try to make use of its dedicated stratagem.

Tankbustas on trukks are very killy but also quite expensive, they need a list full of vehicles (aka target redundancy) to work but they're definitely viable. Wazbom Blastajet is also a decent shooting platform and grants a nice KFF bubble, very useful for mobile armies. The Gorkanaut is very good in killing primaris and tough infantries by shooting while it's an absolute monster in combat. Da Boomer is also good, but some RAW lawyer could give you trouble but in fact it should be able to fire twice with no problem and I'd avoid those kind of players anyway.

Some people also equip Deathskulls dreads with a couple of KMB; I prefer making them pure combat specialists but that option is absolutely legit.


Right.

What about gunwagons as shooting platforms?

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Beardedragon wrote:


Right.

What about gunwagons as shooting platforms?


His reference to 'Da Boomer' is a special Killkannon Gunwagon. Zagzap is the Zzap gun version of that.

Gunwagons under perform compared to LRBTs and cost a bit more. I'd mostly only take one with a Kustom Job.

This might actually be a time when Big Shootas are worthwhile as they stayed the same price while Heavy Bolters and the like went up placing them on more even footing. The Lobba is still criminally priced though.


   
Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

Beardedragon wrote:


Right.

What about gunwagons as shooting platforms?


There's only one gunwagon worth taking, the one upgraded with kustom job Da Boomer. It's an alternative to a battery of 4 Smasha Gunz basically: similar role, damage output, durability and points cost. Cheaper in money and faster to make it battle ready though.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






the_scotsman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, your odds to hit are 1 in 3, basically before Dakka, Dakka, Dakka.

Orks can have good shooting, but it is going to feel weaker, because sometimes you roll a gakload of dice and don't feel traction.

If you really want to shoot hard you should be looking at the Kustom Jobs in Saga of the Beast. There's one that turns the Gun Wagon's D6 Killkannon into a 2D6 version. Given that the Gunwagon double taps like a Leman Russ for 4D6 shots on a 15 point weapon. That gives it about 6 hits that are equivalent to a Battlecannon that always does 2 damage. Compare to an LRBT that gets 3.5 hits on average. There's also a Zzap Gun for the Gunwagon that does 3MW when you get S9+ on the roll and since you can fire twice you might get a bit lucky with it at times (no CP rerolls now though).

There's also a trait (but you sacrifice Deffskulls and others) that turns all Rokkits to S9 AP3 and all Stikkbombs (including Chukkas and Lobbas) to S4 AP1.






Raw the kustom job gunwagon gun is useless because the rule that lets it shoot twice is tied to the regular Kilkannon and GW just never bothered to faq it because they could not care less.


So Just house rule it.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Doesn't help much with FLGS games and tournaments.

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
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Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

It's actually controversial. Some people argue that there's not even need of a FAQ as relics or stratagems upgrades like Da Boomer still count as the original weapon they replace. If it's ok to consider Da Boomer a Killkannon then the Gunwagon could fire twice with it.

Rules say it replaces a killkannon but RAW even assault weapons couldn't work in the first place and yet no one had problems to play them RAI.

Not allowing Da Boomer to shoot twice is just WAAC toxic attitude at this point.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Bad Moonz player here.

Two solutions:
- Just play 2nd because Orks still had BS3.

- Implement a house rule for 3rd-9th which adds one point of BS but subtracts one point of A. In that way Orks don't behave like green Tyrants anymore.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Good news - FAQ fixed Da Boomer.

Q: Do Da Boomer and Zagzap kustom jobs count as a killkannon
and a zzap gun respectively for the purposes of the Periscope
ability of a Gunwagon?
A: Yes


Bad news - KFF no longer works in melee. :(

Worst news - you need a mek shop to do kustom jobs at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/27 16:40:38


   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Yeah, sadly the good stuff about SOTB is pretty much dead at this point, at least competitively. I think mekboy workshops aren't a total deathknell to your army in a casual game so if you want to field one of the units that's really only useful with it (e.g. gunwagon) then you can, but tournament players will just keep using the units that are decent without kustom jobz. The opportunity cost is not worth in a competitive setting to give up 85pts for essentially what you used to get for 1cp.

   
Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

From SotB we basically still have Ghaz, psychic powers for evil sunz and deathskulls, Da biggest Boss, stratagems on KBB, Burnabombers, big mek, meganobz and dreads and the Mek with KFF, although nerfed, can be useful anyway. Mekboy workshop won't work this way, people won't buy it if it's a pure 85 points tax: if GW wanted to sell the workshop it should have allowed 3 Kustom Jobs for no CPs and 1CP per additional kustom job. This way MAYBE the 85 points tax could have been justified.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/27 17:50:30


Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
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 Blackie wrote:
From SotB we basically still have Ghaz, psychic powers for evil sunz and deathskulls, Da biggest Boss, stratagems on KBB, Burnabombers, big mek, meganobz and dreads and the Mek with KFF, although nerfed, can be useful anyway. Mekboy workshop won't work this way, people won't buy it if it's a pure 85 points tax: if GW wanted to sell the workshop it should have allowed 3 Kustom Jobs for no CPs and 1CP per additional kustom job. This way MAYBE the 85 points tax could have been justified.


GW just said they're going to fix that answer. No more tax!

   
Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

They recognized that they wouldn't sell that model anyway

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in us
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Good news - FAQ fixed Da Boomer.

Q: Do Da Boomer and Zagzap kustom jobs count as a killkannon
and a zzap gun respectively for the purposes of the Periscope
ability of a Gunwagon?
A: Yes


Bad news - KFF no longer works in melee. :(

Worst news - you need a mek shop to do kustom jobs at all.



They said no, you do not need a mek shop.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Until it's hit by the nerf stikk (and we know for sure it's coming), chinork warkoptas are the gunships of the orks.

It's an open-topped transport for 10, so you can shoot out of it, and it has 2 rattler cannons (now free) which do (IIRC) 2D6 S5 AP-2 Dam D3 shots each. so a single chinork fires an average of 14 shots with D3 damage and good strength, for (IIRC) under 100 points, and is also fast, flying, and a dedicated transport!

12,300 points of Orks

I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog! 
   
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On topic again, as the gunwagon issue has been fixed.

Orks have many great shooting units, which tend to make up their low ballistic skill with number of shots. It doesn't really matter if you hit half as often if your model costs half as much as a comparable BS3+ weapon or if you have twice as many shots.
In general, you always have to keep in mind that orks are not a pure melee faction and thus will not function when you just have your entire army running at your enemy. They are very much a combined arms army, just like space marines.

Great ork shooting units currently include, but are not limited to:
Morkanaut - vastly improved through sparkly bitz
Mek guns - with smasha being the best, followed by KMK)
Tank bustas - lots of rokkits, reliable bomb squigs, re-roll to hit vs vehicles
Gunwagon with Da Boomer
Shokk-jump Dragsta (short SJD) - a buggy with an extremely powerful gun hitting on 3+
Megatrakka Scrapjet - a buggy firing rokkits and bullets everywhere
Kustom Boosta-blasta - a buggy armed with four burnas and a stapler that punches holes through primaris
Deffkilla Wartrike - three shotguns and the choice of a melta or heavy flamer that can be improved even further with Gork's Roar. The deffskulls trait helps this one a lot
Deff Dreads with 1-4 KMB - deffskulls only, the re-rolls are used to get at least one shot through to deal lots of damage. There is no consensus on what number of KMB is the best
Dakka jet - lots of shots, decent guns, gets +1 to hit
Wazbomm blastajet - heavy mek bomber for blowing up vehicles

There are also flash gits (and their Kaptin' Badrukk) and lootas who are great shooting units, but have seen massive price rises recently. Should their points drop again, these have the potential to be great shooting units as well.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:

Shokk-jump Dragsta (short SJD) - a buggy with an extremely powerful gun hitting on 3+


Has anyone tried running 3 of these and getting the auto-jump kustom job? Seems like a spectacular way to deploy conservatively and then popup all over the table and then go and do it again next turn.

   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

Shokk-jump Dragsta (short SJD) - a buggy with an extremely powerful gun hitting on 3+


Has anyone tried running 3 of these and getting the auto-jump kustom job? Seems like a spectacular way to deploy conservatively and then popup all over the table and then go and do it again next turn.


Yes, multiple people have, including me.

The issue is that the SJD already moves 14" and can reach pretty much anything it wants, while the jump only works when you advance and thus gives the buggy a -1 to hit, making the main gun worse and the rokkits useless.

The real value is the stratagem for them, which allows you to drive into dangerous positions, shoot, and then teleport away.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Jidmah wrote:


Yes, multiple people have, including me.

The issue is that the SJD already moves 14" and can reach pretty much anything it wants, while the jump only works when you advance and thus gives the buggy a -1 to hit, making the main gun worse and the rokkits useless.

The real value is the stratagem for them, which allows you to drive into dangerous positions, shoot, and then teleport away.


Fair points. Its so orky though...

   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Danmark

 some bloke wrote:
Until it's hit by the nerf stikk (and we know for sure it's coming), chinork warkoptas are the gunships of the orks.

It's an open-topped transport for 10, so you can shoot out of it, and it has 2 rattler cannons (now free) which do (IIRC) 2D6 S5 AP-2 Dam D3 shots each. so a single chinork fires an average of 14 shots with D3 damage and good strength, for (IIRC) under 100 points, and is also fast, flying, and a dedicated transport!


I actually just got my hands on a Chinork Warkopter that im gluing together as we speak with some parts from Kromlech. I too put on the Rattler kannons before the point changes. I figured id turn it in to a gunship too.

If the enemy has tanks ill put tank bustas inside, if they have a lot of infantry, either flash gitz (which have an absurd price now so maybe not) or maybe lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
On topic again, as the gunwagon issue has been fixed.

Orks have many great shooting units, which tend to make up their low ballistic skill with number of shots. It doesn't really matter if you hit half as often if your model costs half as much as a comparable BS3+ weapon or if you have twice as many shots.
In general, you always have to keep in mind that orks are not a pure melee faction and thus will not function when you just have your entire army running at your enemy. They are very much a combined arms army, just like space marines.

Great ork shooting units currently include, but are not limited to:
Morkanaut - vastly improved through sparkly bitz
Mek guns - with smasha being the best, followed by KMK)
Tank bustas - lots of rokkits, reliable bomb squigs, re-roll to hit vs vehicles
Gunwagon with Da Boomer
Shokk-jump Dragsta (short SJD) - a buggy with an extremely powerful gun hitting on 3+
Megatrakka Scrapjet - a buggy firing rokkits and bullets everywhere
Kustom Boosta-blasta - a buggy armed with four burnas and a stapler that punches holes through primaris
Deffkilla Wartrike - three shotguns and the choice of a melta or heavy flamer that can be improved even further with Gork's Roar. The deffskulls trait helps this one a lot
Deff Dreads with 1-4 KMB - deffskulls only, the re-rolls are used to get at least one shot through to deal lots of damage. There is no consensus on what number of KMB is the best
Dakka jet - lots of shots, decent guns, gets +1 to hit
Wazbomm blastajet - heavy mek bomber for blowing up vehicles

There are also flash gits (and their Kaptin' Badrukk) and lootas who are great shooting units, but have seen massive price rises recently. Should their points drop again, these have the potential to be great shooting units as well.


How does some of the Index units measure up?

Kill tank
Squiggoth
Gargantuan Squiggoth
Big Trakk?

Personally i intend to get a Big Trakk eventually but just for the 2x Super Scorchas that can reach 24 inches. that sound very good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 08:02:23


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
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Bergen

Sparkly bits on the big walker with the forcefield is a havoc on my tyranids, at least in 8th edition.

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Beardedragon wrote:
How does some of the Index units measure up?

Kill tank
Squiggoth
Gargantuan Squiggoth
Big Trakk?

Personally i intend to get a Big Trakk eventually but just for the 2x Super Scorchas that can reach 24 inches. that sound very good.


The big trakk is a decent unit, especially with the supa scorcha. The gargantuan squiggoth also works quite well, but is more melee oriented.

In general, I wouldn't advise investing heavily into FW 40k units as GW clearly wants to abandon them eventually, though that might be multiple years from now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

I also like the Big Trakk with supa skorcha, unfortunately it's heavy support and quite expensive pointswise to be competitive, but it can definitely work.

Anyway, just magnetize some kind of flamer on a regular Trukk instead of simply glueing the big shoota. Cheaper than buying from FW and safer if the unit disappears.

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Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in dk
Been Around the Block




Danmark

 Blackie wrote:
I also like the Big Trakk with supa skorcha, unfortunately it's heavy support and quite expensive pointswise to be competitive, but it can definitely work.

Anyway, just magnetize some kind of flamer on a regular Trukk instead of simply glueing the big shoota. Cheaper than buying from FW and safer if the unit disappears.

I mean if they dont allow big trakks, surely i can just use the model as a regular trukk?

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in it
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Italy

Beardedragon wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
I also like the Big Trakk with supa skorcha, unfortunately it's heavy support and quite expensive pointswise to be competitive, but it can definitely work.

Anyway, just magnetize some kind of flamer on a regular Trukk instead of simply glueing the big shoota. Cheaper than buying from FW and safer if the unit disappears.

I mean if they dont allow big trakks, surely i can just use the model as a regular trukk?


Absolutely. They're basically the same model with different weapon.

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