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2020/07/28 19:27:45
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Folks,
I am going to add a wash or ink, more likely wash to a satin spray. This is all over the 'orky city' MDF terrain kit for 40k, from Frontline Gaming. There are 7 large pieces, so I'm going to need ... I dunno 3 or so ounces of stuff?
As I applied acrylic over the satin main color (primed with black) the viscosity broke down and I had to apply a third coat sometimes. This was the red, black&white checker and darker grays for the orkish ... 'decorative pieces'.
I don't think watered down acrylic is going to work too well. Suggestions? Automatically Appended Next Post: Here:
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 19:34:21
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/07/28 19:37:26
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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So, to understand... you applied black acrylic primer, sprayed with an acrylic (satin finish) paint... and then painted Red, Black, and White over the spray paint (also acrylic?). You then are going to give it a wash, before sealing?
If you try to apply acrylic over enamel, it won't stick at all. Found that out the hard way. Is that a possibility?
Wood, Black Acrylic Primer, Spray Can (satin finish), paint from a pot over top (didn't stick well). Now wanting to put a wash on, followed by sealer? Is that the plan?
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2020/07/28 19:46:29
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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greatbigtree wrote:So, to understand... you applied black acrylic primer, sprayed with an acrylic (satin finish) paint... and then painted Red, Black, and White over the spray paint (also acrylic?). You then are going to give it a wash, before sealing?
Nailed it all in one go. Yessir.
greatbigtree wrote:If you try to apply acrylic over enamel, it won't stick at all. Found that out the hard way. Is that a possibility?
A bit, yes, but it's satin ... which in my painty-ignorance, is enamel?
greatbigtree wrote:Wood, Black Acrylic Primer, Spray Can (satin finish), paint from a pot over top (didn't stick well). Now wanting to put a wash on, followed by sealer? Is that the plan?
Sealer was not in the plan, but it can be now.
You totally got the picture, sir.
What will provide the dirty, rainy, muddy, slightly rusty look, that says, "We are orks. 'Clean' is not in our vocabulary" ?
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"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/07/28 20:32:13
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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Satin is a finish, between Matte and Gloss. "Primer" has a quality called "tooth" that paint "bites onto" to stick.
So if you apply paint over a "satin" finish, it will not stick as well. BUT! If you apply a wash over it, and let it dry, the surface will now have tooth again and paint will stick better!
Enamel is a type of paint, usually used for automotive. Acrylic is a different type of paint as well, and the two don't stick well to each other, even if it's an enamel "primer".
If you want to dirty something up, provide shading, and a bit of sealing effect, you might want to look at wood stains and varnishes. Cheap-ish by the can, will dirty things up, and help protect your paint.
You might want to google "Minwax Polyshade" which is a stain and sealer in one. Looks like they have an aerosol option... might be convenient. Start with a small section! "Pecan" is a redish, rusty wood colour that might fit your bill.
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2020/07/28 20:40:06
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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greatbigtree,
Thanks, for the little tutorial and I will look into those.
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"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/07/28 21:13:28
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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Happy to help! Let us know how things develop!
If the stain / sealer is too glossy, a matte sealer will bring it down again. Careful not to go too heavy on the matte sealer, as it may turn cloudy. Two thin coats and all that.
Oh! One other thing! You might want to look into Krylon brand “camo” spray paint. It has an “ultra matte” finish that leaves almost primer quality tooth to paint over. Avoids the poor-adhesion that satin finish paints can have.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 21:16:47
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2020/07/28 22:26:02
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Angry Chaos Agitator
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I'm not 100% clear on what the issue you are encountering is, but MDF (unlike plastic) is porous so will absorb water. This can make paints interact with it in a way that's a little different, and it might be hard to use techniques and paints you would nomrally use for mini painting in the same way. You can get around this by 'sealing' the MDF before priming and painting. You can apply a layer of Mod Podge (or some other non water-soluble PVA type glue) before priming. This will create a bit of a coating that should stop the MDF from absorbing water. Alternatively, you can apply a few heavy layers of primer. Obviously you have already started working on yours... so this advice might well be useless!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 22:26:29
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2020/07/29 07:48:04
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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I'm having difficulty understanding what you want advice on. Is it what to use for a wash?
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Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs |
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2020/07/29 11:46:56
Subject: Re:What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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This stuff is meant to be used over varnish. The good thing is that if you don't like the effect you can use a damp paper towel to wipe some of it (or all) off until you get the effect you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqtw3BSMawA
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2020/07/29 17:18:08
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Correct.
I have just tried watered down acrylic. It beaded too much for my taste, barely sinking into creaveses, Overall, it didn't have any affect.
I'm presently waiting for a Vallejo wash to dry to see how that goes. Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Slipstream,
Are these 'Flory's going to have Vallejo's similar effect (which implies I don't know if Vallejo is going to work on the satin finish) ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the outer edge and on the inside of the 'wood' floor, is the Vallejo wash. It's been 10+ minutes and the beading is not an effect that I think is looking good.
I've used GW's Nuln Oil on models, infantry & tanks & monsterous creatures, so I know how that should look.
I've used watered down black or brown acrylic on terrain sized surfaces before too, but this satin is laughing at me.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/29 17:33:25
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/07/29 17:59:46
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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As a question, are you ok with the wood grain showing through?
Not a criticism, just asking because if you don't want them showing through, you'll need to put more coats of your base paint onto the wood, to help fill in the lines and swirls.
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2020/07/29 18:42:35
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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greatbigtree wrote:As a question, are you ok with the wood grain showing through?
Not a criticism, just asking because if you don't want them showing through, you'll need to put more coats of your base paint onto the wood, to help fill in the lines and swirls.
No criticism taken. It's a good question. Yes, the grain showing through is fine.
I'm eyeballing some varnish I found in the garage as the Vallejo isn't doing much better than the watered down acrylic. I applied some to a featureless base and one side. Pix shortly.
Besides, "Holy Crap! the new phone takes good pix!" What we're looking at is a wood varnish left of my thumb, on the uneven 'wood' planks and the wall. To the right and below my digit is unwashed ivory satin. What y'all think?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/29 19:13:37
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/07/29 20:12:41
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Brothererekose wrote:
On the outer edge and on the inside of the 'wood' floor, is the Vallejo wash. It's been 10+ minutes and the beading is not an effect that I think is looking good.
I've used GW's Nuln Oil on models, infantry & tanks & monsterous creatures, so I know how that should look.
I've used watered down black or brown acrylic on terrain sized surfaces before too, but this satin is laughing at me.
The issue here is surface tension. You need your wash to flow across the surface and draw itself into corners and details, but instead it's pooling and beading on the surface. I've fought that battle, but only against primers and matte paints, never against a satin finish, so I don't know quite what you're up against. Even so, here's two experimental fixes:
Try-it-today easy way: Since you're already messing with thinned acrylic paints, try making a wash of paint, clean water, and a drop or two of dish detergent. The dish soap breaks the surface tension and makes the wash flow rather than pool. Start with a 2:1 water to paint ratio and a single drop of soap and adjust from there.
Hard way with a shopping trip: Buy some acrylic pigment (start with Carbon Black and Raw Umber to simulate black and brown washes like Nuln and Agrax). Also get some ModPodge (which is basically PVA or white glue with a different moisture content). Replace the dish soap with "Flow Aid" from a similar art store supplier. Keep using clean water. Now you've got your own pigment (color without paint), binder (paint without color), and solvent (water), plus the ability to control the color saturation and flow characteristics. My Nuln Oil knock-off for big terrain projects is about 10 parts water, 2 parts pigment, 1 part ModPodge, and a few drops of flow aid. I mix it a few ounces at a time in a flip top bottle and use an old brush to smear it around. I keep a mix of "wet water" handy (10:1 water and flow aid) so I can modify the mix on the fly... if I think it's lying too dark and thick on the surface, a squirt of wet water usually drives it off the surface and into the corners and recesses.
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2020/07/29 22:51:56
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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MacPhail wrote:Try-it-today easy way: Since you're already messing with thinned acrylic paints, try making a wash of paint, clean water, and a drop or two of dish detergent. The dish soap breaks the surface tension and makes the wash flow rather than pool. Start with a 2:1 water to paint ratio and a single drop of soap and adjust from there.
dingdingding! We have a winner!
@ MacPhail
Dude! You Win the thread, man. The soap kicked it over just as you wrote. I've got even coverage on the flats and pooling in recesses.
I just have bubbles, which I've run into before, and I think it's the brush I use. So, a slow, steady hand pushing them to a recess and they go away.
Suh-Weet! And cheap, too.
All you guys, thanks a bunch.
MacPhail, I'm a southern California resident, so if you end up at SoCal Open, a BAO or any other gig out here, you got a beer coming. ... you know, covid19 pending and all.
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"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/07/29 23:20:30
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Sweet, I'm glad it worked! Bubbles is the cost of using dish soap instead of flow aid. But cheap and already on hand are golden when you just need to get a project unstuck. Don't forget the finished photos!
I grew up in Ventura and consider SoCal home, but I've been in Colorado for 15 years. So, yes to the beer, I'll treat you right back, and we can do LA or Denver, whichever comes first!
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2020/08/01 20:20:33
Subject: Re:What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Hi guys.
Sorry for the delay, although I don't think anyone has been on the edge of their seat waiting. Still, I feel that posting final pictures is like payment for your time and attention.
I got caught up in opening Indomitus, reading new rules, and dreading the assembly of 2 boxes of SM. I gave the other guy all the necrons. 20 Assault Interssesors down, on to the bikes.
Plus I only have this one shot of the finished village:
I did wipe some paint/wash off with the paper towel in the middle areas of the metal 'roof' plates, leaving a more gradual fade of gray, where more foot traffic would wear it down more than corners.
Again thanks for the input and help. A positive for Dakka's community. So, now when I see you guys in the tourney or YMDC sections we can call each other names and accuse each other of not playing 'real 40k'. It balances out, right?
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"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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2020/08/02 00:44:14
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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Looks great, Brother! Happy gaming!
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2020/08/06 01:06:36
Subject: What kind of wash over satin? Lotsa square inches.
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Preacher of the Emperor
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That looks super sharp. The red is really striking and will contrast nicely with all those green bodies. I pity the assault intercessors that have to storm those walls. Nice job!
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