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Hey folks,

I've been going back and forth with a Forgeworld customer service agent about a miscast Konrad Curze model, but he's absolutely adamant that there's nothing wrong with it. I sent over a dozen images and bothered to make up a couple of videos that I liked them to on YouTube, but they're adamant that this is just par the course for Forgeworld quality.

I've ordered close to three grands worth of models alone, but none of them have been miscast this (Obviously) badly. I've had fairly minimal problems with mold lines (Always easy to clean off), hardened release agent (You can actually scratch this off pretty handily), warped long pieces (boiling water does the trick) and the usual tiny hole imperfections (Liquid green stuff).

Please take a look at the videos below and let me know what you think. I'll add the images later if people are interested, as I know the first video is blurry.

It's mainly the fins on his upper back that are the problem, but the images I have show problems all over the back.

Thanks,
Marc

I think the slight damage along them is intentional. Based on the pics on the fw site that might just be flash. If you look at the fins of their example they don't curve down and touch his armor, they look shorter.

My experience with their customer service is mixed but I try to be fair; they are always polite and most of the time they fix the issue that I have. Sometimes they won't replace hideously cast parts though, always get a response like "that looks to be within our quality requirements". Other times they replace the most minor blemishes with no resistance.

For what they charge, they should just send you another. Better to lose one mini on the hopes you spend another three grand than to convince you not to buy more Forgeworld. Unless this mini costs 300 bucks, their response is surprisingly cheap.

How long have you had it? UK statutory rights give you 14 days to return any item bought online with no reason needed, so just return it if you aren't happy.

I've stopped buying FW altogether, as the QC has just dropped like a stone, and I don't think customer services is able to properly handle the level of complaints that they get as a result.

You know what I do if they refuse to give me replacement? I just send it back and order another one. And another one. And another one if the problem persists. feth them, for what they charge and refuse to replace miscasts.

GW customer service is not what they claim anymore.

I had to deal with them was back when they still sold metal minis. I bought a box of Volands Venators and one guy was missing his arm or something. The GW rep gave me a huge hard time over it and finally begrudgingly sent me a blister pack with a guy in it. Which I didn't even ask for. I just wanted the missing arm.

Another time I bought the metal orcs and gobbos giant, he was missing something also. There response was "we don't sell that anymore, so go kick rocks."

Last one I remember was the Isle of Blood set I got, where half the elves were literally snapped in half as if someone had stepped on the sprues before putting them in the box. GW said just glue them back together.

Yeah so GW customer service is a myth, IMO.

In fairness, GWs main customer service is consistently really good, one or two instances aside they have always gone above and beyond when I've contacted them. FW is, or at least definitely used to be, a separate entity with different staff.

I got the same run around about Island of Blood: “we don’t make that any more.” A couple weeks later they brought it back for AOS.

I'll contrast this with Mantic.

They completely screwed up my kickstarter order for Kings of War. I got ahold of Ronnie at GenCon, and a month later a HUGE box with way, way more than I actually ordered showed up on my doorstep along with a handwritten note apologizing for the mess up.

GW's customer service is complete and utter garbage anymore.

I have to deal with issues for almost every item I purchase from their webstore. It's the sole reason I avoid buying from their webstore unless it's absolutely unavoidable.

My items always show up damaged and GW's customer service is all to often unresponsive or unwilling to help unless I pester them. The times that they're unresponsive, I'll allow a week to pass before I email them again informing them I've started the charge dispute process with my credit card company - and sadly it's not a bluff. They usually get back to me then.

Just remember; what GW determines to be acceptable is completely irrelevant. You are the customer. Your standards and expectations set the standard of acceptability. If you are unhappy with the product you received, it is GW's responsibility to replace the product or issue a refund for its return - this is a fundamental concept of consumer protection law.

I clearly see the issue with your model. It looks like an air bubble that was trapped and prevented the resin from completely filling the mold. This is a common problem with casting resin.

Can't help but disagree. I got an Arturos for Necro and somehow the barrel on the needle pistol got trapped in the plastic and snapped off. I sent a picture and they shipped out a whole model replacement the next day.

And about a week ago i got a blister of Osgilliath vets that had three archers in it rather than the normal ratio. They sent me out two extra blisters for free. Service is top notch and always has been.

I ordered the $100 FW Index set a couple of years ago. The books arrived in perfect condition, but the spines got banged up in delivery and there was maybe a 1cm rip on each one.

They immediately sent me four brand new books for free and let me keep the damaged copies.

Honestly it seems like the USA has more issues than the UK when it comes to customer service. Things like "most models I order come broken" also sounds like the issue might not be GW, but the postal service itself, since the same boxes and same models deliver fine to the UK typically.

That or they are packing boxes very badly at the USA warehouse which results in abnormal amounts of damage to the parcel during transit.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly it seems like the USA has more issues than the UK when it comes to customer service. Things like "most models I order come broken" also sounds like the issue might not be GW, but the postal service itself, since the same boxes and same models deliver fine to the UK typically.

That or they are packing boxes very badly at the USA warehouse which results in abnormal amounts of damage to the parcel during transit.

Any damage is likely occuring between the UK and US warehouse.

That or GW is sending "2nds" to the US or has some kind of ridiculous "loss prevention" reject rate for the US warehouse that incentivizes this behavior.

It would make sense if they just plain and simply treated customers outside the UK more poorly than ones inside the UK, as they make quite a lot of easy money there. I also think the customer service representative you get plays a factor, as "Luke" has refused to replace a backpack for me before (Not that big a deal, I only wanted the Rhino door replaced and only really wanted the rapier heavy bolter from the set that the messed up backpack was from).

Nevertheless, I'll post the images I sent up until the point that he mentions an exchange/refund is possible as a future warning for anyone who wants to buy a primarch. To the attached images I got the response:

"Hello Marc,

Thanks for the email

This model is not faulty, whilst the detail is thin it is not damaged or broken and is designed this way.

You wil just need to be careful when cleaning but otherwise hit has arrived as we would have expected.

you can strengthen the part with a little super glue applied with a brush applicator.

Kind regards"

I then sent the first video and got this response:

"Hi Marc,

I am sorry to say the video does not help illustrate the issue, it is quite blurry and not very clear on that the issues are.

Could you try to forward some more details images that will highlight the issue?

Currently, I cannot see an issue other than slightly thinned parts that could be strengthened using super glue and painted normally. These are all within the expected level of hobby work for our products

Kind regards"

















I then send him on the second video and the following seven images, which is when I finally get the first mention of a refund/replacement:

"Hello Marc.


Thanks for forwarding some clearer images.

I would still say this is within our usual quality tolerances, the areas you raise of concern can still be filled in or strengthened with super glue or a dab of liquid green stuff.

This level of hobby work is not uncommon in our products and is recommended on a regular bases by the customer service team.

Cleaning the model you should not need to supply any great amount of pressure a gently brush with an old soft toothbrush will surface.

If you follow the grain by brushing down the back of the model softly with hot soapy water, you wil be able to clean the model without damaging it

Please apply the suggested techniques and spray prime the parts, these areas you have raised as a concern should not be visible but, if after the recommended hobby work has been applied and you can still see flaws we can then take another look.

If you are not entirely happy with the product as it has been received or the advice we have given we can arrange a return for the whole product for a refund provided no further hobby work has been applied?



Kind regards"















I was pretty ticked off at this point as I've ordered almost three grands worth of Forgeworld stock and none of it has been in as bad a condition as this cast. I even checked out a few unboxing videos (Spikey bits, warp forge I think? And another random one) to confirm that it wasn't just me being picky. I sent him several more images of the miscast parts (You can see them below), but he never actually admitted that the model was a bad cast at any point and that if I wasn't happy, I should send the model back (No mention if I'm going to have to pay for the delivery out of my own pocket either, nor a guarantee that the replacement will be of acceptable quality:

Looks fine to me. I don't see anything that can't be easily repaired.

 meatybtz wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly it seems like the USA has more issues than the UK when it comes to customer service. Things like "most models I order come broken" also sounds like the issue might not be GW, but the postal service itself, since the same boxes and same models deliver fine to the UK typically.

That or they are packing boxes very badly at the USA warehouse which results in abnormal amounts of damage to the parcel during transit.

Any damage is likely occuring between the UK and US warehouse.

Nah, it's more likely to be FedEx or USPS at this point. FedEx has crummy service and they're what GW uses.

 slave.entity wrote:
Looks fine to me. I don't see anything that can't be easily repaired.

You're kidding right?

I'll admit from the first post I didn't see much of an issue, but those larger close ups show a model that I'd be disappointed with if I'd bought a recast. The level of resculpting needed is beyond reasonable expectation of skill and/or time for a premium product.

Not to mention that thing is covered in mould release, it looks like it's been dipped in vaseline after it was cast.

It looks like the knee trim is messed up, but are the things on the back just Really Thin?

My God, guys!
I really feel for you. To all intents and purposes that is a bad casting in any sense of the word.
As for them saying that it is within their levels of acceptability, amazing arrogance.

1) The only faults should be small air bubbles and that's all, anything above that and the model should be marked as faulty and sold at a lower price, to account for the amount of work the buyer will have to do to repair it
2) How come other companies manage to do it better, at a lower price and just small air bubbles to fix? Surely a bigger company should be better equipped and be able to produce high quality products? After all, you are paying premium prices for what is supposed to be a premium product, should you not expect that level?
3) Everyone who buys products needs to be less lenient; it doesn't matter if you can fix it or not, it shouldn't need fixed in the first place!
To the OP; don't let them get away with it, they need to do much better.

Slipstream wrote:
1) The only faults should be small air bubbles and that's all, anything above that and the model should be marked as faulty and sold at a lower price, to account for the amount of work the buyer will have to do to repair it
2) How come other companies manage to do it better, at a lower price and just small air bubbles to fix? Surely a bigger company should be better equipped and be able to produce high quality products? After all, you are paying premium prices for what is supposed to be a premium product, should you not expect that level?
3) Everyone who buys products needs to be less lenient; it doesn't matter if you can fix it or not, it shouldn't need fixed in the first place!
To the OP; don't let them get away with it, they need to do much better.

My friends and I joke that the way to tell whether a model is genuine Forge World or a recast is to look at the casting quality. If it's got mold slips, awful mold lines, obnoxiously placed gates, tons of air bubbles, and poor fitment of all the parts, it's genuine Forge World.

I agree that this standard of quality should not be acceptable. I'd send it back to FW for a refund if they're unwilling to do the right thing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 meatybtz wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly it seems like the USA has more issues than the UK when it comes to customer service. Things like "most models I order come broken" also sounds like the issue might not be GW, but the postal service itself, since the same boxes and same models deliver fine to the UK typically.

That or they are packing boxes very badly at the USA warehouse which results in abnormal amounts of damage to the parcel during transit.

Any damage is likely occuring between the UK and US warehouse.

Nah, it's more likely to be FedEx or USPS at this point. FedEx has crummy service and they're what GW uses.

Been buying GW Minis since 1989. Never had one thing busted up in shipping, even back when it was mail-order to the UK only. But I did have GW ship plenty of obviously bad parts, esp in the change over for their metal material. Back when, esp eldar, often had no feet or legs due to casting failures.

People in the US and AUS have seen more parts bad from factory as it were than the UK folks. Even if the UK folks run into it, it is a much easier process to replace and they tend to have better luck with both GW and Forge World in that regard.

The issue being the bias in perception really. The AUS and US customers pay more and wait longer (with the AUS really being reamed out on costs) so tend to be more sensitive to defects vs people who can just go visit Warhammer World or a local GW. I mean, really, a drive from top to bottom in the UK is the same as my drive was from Nor Cal (real Nor Cal, not Central Coast), to LA. Something we did a lot.

So we have greater sensitivity and GW has more resistance to Customer Service because the cost to them is HIGHER to fulfill customer service. AKA shipping costs are higher to correct a problem so they push back more. But I ramble, my brain is leaking out my ears.

I agree with a previous post that the OP didn't look too bad, then the pics with air bubbles and mold shifts skewek my opinion somewhat. I've come across recasts that were in much better condition than this.

Surprised that the customer service is slipping though. My main experience was buying a Rhino that had serious damage in the hull, almost as if someone had held a lighter underneath and melted a hole in the hull plating. Took it back to GW Brighton, the guy said "just take a fresh one off the shelf and keep the original for terrrain", which I thought was a top-notch response.

On the other hand FW annoyed me on one occasion when I was rebuilding my Reaver. Bought it around 10 years ago and when rebuilding it I lost one of the Moderati. Emailed FW asking if they could supply a spare, and I'd be happy to pay for any costs of doing so, and supplied a pic of the certificate. No response. Called them up, they instantly recognised my query and said I still need to supply proof of postage. Couldn't be arsed to have to trawl through years of bank statements so had to just leave it at that.

I now see the problem, consider returning that. The details look soft, the primarchs and characters I bought were much better than this.

 meatybtz wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 meatybtz wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly it seems like the USA has more issues than the UK when it comes to customer service. Things like "most models I order come broken" also sounds like the issue might not be GW, but the postal service itself, since the same boxes and same models deliver fine to the UK typically.

That or they are packing boxes very badly at the USA warehouse which results in abnormal amounts of damage to the parcel during transit.

Any damage is likely occuring between the UK and US warehouse.

Nah, it's more likely to be FedEx or USPS at this point. FedEx has crummy service and they're what GW uses.

Been buying GW Minis since 1989. Never had one thing busted up in shipping, even back when it was mail-order to the UK only. But I did have GW ship plenty of obviously bad parts, esp in the change over for their metal material. Back when, esp eldar, often had no feet or legs due to casting failures.

People in the US and AUS have seen more parts bad from factory as it were than the UK folks. Even if the UK folks run into it, it is a much easier process to replace and they tend to have better luck with both GW and Forge World in that regard.

The issue being the bias in perception really. The AUS and US customers pay more and wait longer (with the AUS really being reamed out on costs) so tend to be more sensitive to defects vs people who can just go visit Warhammer World or a local GW. I mean, really, a drive from top to bottom in the UK is the same as my drive was from Nor Cal (real Nor Cal, not Central Coast), to LA. Something we did a lot.

So we have greater sensitivity and GW has more resistance to Customer Service because the cost to them is HIGHER to fulfill customer service. AKA shipping costs are higher to correct a problem so they push back more. But I ramble, my brain is leaking out my ears.

You see my flag? I'm also in the US.

It's FedEx. They're crap. They also hand off the package ASAP to someone else, which is why I mentioned USPS who are currently being overworked and forced to deal with a Postmaster General who legitimately wants to disband them or make people call for their disbanding.

You could have fixed it in the the time you've spent going back and forth and doing videos and pictures. I've had far worse and fixed it easily.

GW's only real change to customer service is that - and this is not aimed at OP - people have been absolutely scamming them back when the default response would be to just send another model/box and keep the faulty one.

I recently had an issue where a print on demand book dustjacket was damaged in a minor way - not worse than you'd get on a shelf bought book - I sent a photo, explained I collected them and that I thought their packaging wasn't great , got a rep,y to return it freepost and they'd send another once I emailed the postage receipt, and received the replacement better packaged later the next week.

Aye GW often requests proof of purchase now because they also had a lot of people buying secondhand on ebay and the like or just asking for the same replacement parts for the same model several times in a row etc...

I've honestly no general problem with GW taking steps to reduce the potential for people to scam customer services. In the end such activities only hurt us because it means GW is giving away stock and losing money which means that there is less to put into the pool to go toward us getting new models and such.

I don't understand why the miscast wasnt returned by the poster under normal product return. You can return any product(s) you buy if you're not happy, why be OCD about it and insist the product is returned because of a specific issue? GW doesnt need to know nor care the exact reason why you return something. Besides, they already admitted your right to return the item, what more you want? Its in no big companys self interest to openly admit to any possible faults with regards to manufacturing defects. All this apologizing and overcompensating small compnies do is just them trying to stay in business, GW has no trouble with that so they dont need to indulge in it.

A whole lotta drama over nothing IMHO.

tauist wrote:
I don't understand why the miscast wasnt returned by the poster under normal product return. You can return any product(s) you buy if you're not happy, why be OCD about it and insist the product is returned because of a specific issue? GW doesnt need to know nor care the exact reason why you return something. Besides, they already admitted your right to return the item, what more you want? Its in no companys self interest to openly admit to any possible faults with regards to manufacturing defects.

A whole lotta drama over nothing IMHO.

The drama is more because we are used, in the model world, to GW not asking for a return typically and just sending out replacement parts when there is an error. So things get drawn out if there's a difference of opinion. The OP could certainly box it up and return it without any issues.

I see. So before, yall had it too good and got used to it. Time to readjust expectations..

I remember being really weirded out when I got a huge delay in one shipment I ordered from GW, mailing then about it and they just sending me a new shipment of the exact same order.. In the end I ended up with two duplicates of that order once the postal ques cleared. Thought I musta gotten really lucky, had no idea it was their SOP in the past.

Anyways, I have a full-resin Land Raider coming from FW. I'll be sure to inspect the pieces once it ships just to make sure I don't need to return it straight away (for any reason).