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Made in fr
Dakka Veteran






I believe gw should have given the tomb spyder a RP buff instead of making the new reanimation walker. But hey, why improve an existing and mostly unused model when you can grab more moey from players with a new one, right?

Does anyone else believe it would have been better to give the spyder the RP buff? I think it's a great model as is and it just not really useful, I'd have rather seen it buffed than that new walker with it's giant "I WILL DIE ON TURN ONE!" sign.

Really, I just saw a batrep with one, killed before it did a single thing.

I've got a joke about trickle down economics, but 95% of you wouldn't get any of it."

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Yeah, I think that should have gone to the Spyder. It was also stupid of the sculptor to make such a key unit so tall that nearly everything has LOS to it. Most of GW's sculptors must copy/paste and mash keys without thinking the design through.
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 Matt Swain wrote:
I believe gw should have given the tomb spyder a RP buff instead of making the new reanimation walker. But hey, why improve an existing and mostly unused model when you can grab more moey from players with a new one, right?

Does anyone else believe it would have been better to give the spyder the RP buff? I think it's a great model as is and it just not really useful, I'd have rather seen it buffed than that new walker with it's giant "I WILL DIE ON TURN ONE!" sign.

Really, I just saw a batrep with one, killed before it did a single thing.


You mean the Canoptek Spyder right?

Can't really tell before we have the codex in hand and see the full picture

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[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

If Spyders can do a better job of repairing vehicles, I'm fine with a split role.

I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.

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Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From page 66 of Codex Necrons (8th edition):

Unlike their Necron masters, Canoptek Spyders never sleep, but wile away the aeons servicing the structures of their tomb world.

Canoptek Spyders are the caretakers of the Necron Tomb Worlds, not of the Necrons themselves and shouldn't have an effect on Reanimation Protocol rolls as it does not fit their fluff.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Sasori wrote:
If Spyders can do a better job of repairing vehicles, I'm fine with a split role.

I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.


friend of mine who plays 'crons took one look at the things stats and said "it's a distraction carnifex. the goal is to absorb a round or two of fire so more valuable units don't" not sure how valid this is, but it's an intreasting thought

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

BrianDavion wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
If Spyders can do a better job of repairing vehicles, I'm fine with a split role.

I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.


friend of mine who plays 'crons took one look at the things stats and said "it's a distraction carnifex. the goal is to absorb a round or two of fire so more valuable units don't" not sure how valid this is, but it's an intreasting thought


If it was a bit tougher, I think this would be a fair analogy. At T5 6W and a 3+ with no invuln, it doesn't take very much firepower at all to bring it down and at 110 points it's just a bit too expensive for that.

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Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Sasori wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
If Spyders can do a better job of repairing vehicles, I'm fine with a split role.

I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.


friend of mine who plays 'crons took one look at the things stats and said "it's a distraction carnifex. the goal is to absorb a round or two of fire so more valuable units don't" not sure how valid this is, but it's an intreasting thought


If it was a bit tougher, I think this would be a fair analogy. At T5 6W and a 3+ with no invuln, it doesn't take very much firepower at all to bring it down and at 110 points it's just a bit too expensive for that.

Triarch Stalkers fit the role pretty well, they are reasonably durable for their cost, they can become amazingly durable with Quantum Deflection. Their firepower and ability are great against some units, but sometimes I really don't mind if it's the first thing to die before my Doomsday Arks do. Ghost Arks also do it pretty well, durable without too much damage, but in some lists the threat of hyper efficient repair will make people target Ghost Arks before more important units. Reanimators and Spyders are not efficient whether they get shot or not, they are just bad. Distraction Carnifex should not be applied to a unit that is neither tough enough, supporty enough or killy enough for its pts cost.

I think the idea of a Reanimator is fine and I think the idea of Spyders not having any buffs to Reanimation is fine, I could go either way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 06:36:33


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sasori wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Sasori wrote:
If Spyders can do a better job of repairing vehicles, I'm fine with a split role.

I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.


friend of mine who plays 'crons took one look at the things stats and said "it's a distraction carnifex. the goal is to absorb a round or two of fire so more valuable units don't" not sure how valid this is, but it's an intreasting thought


If it was a bit tougher, I think this would be a fair analogy. At T5 6W and a 3+ with no invuln, it doesn't take very much firepower at all to bring it down and at 110 points it's just a bit too expensive for that.


^^^This. The Spyder is probably the weakest monster in the game. It has slightly-tougher-than-character stats but no character protection and it's probably at least double what a reasonable cost would be for something that dies the moment your opponent can shoot at it. I don't have a problem with GW splitting the repair/reanimate abilities across multiple entries for Necrons and think there's a difference between a unit designed to maintain Necron technology like the Spyder and one specifically designed to reanimate warriors.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






 Ghaz wrote:
From page 66 of Codex Necrons (8th edition):

Unlike their Necron masters, Canoptek Spyders never sleep, but wile away the aeons servicing the structures of their tomb world.

Canoptek Spyders are the caretakers of the Necron Tomb Worlds, not of the Necrons themselves and shouldn't have an effect on Reanimation Protocol rolls as it does not fit their fluff.

*Ahem*
Also from Codex: Necrons (8th ed.), pg.66:
Canoptek Spyders whose primary duties are oversight, rather than direct action, craft slaved hosts of Canoptek Scarabs and nanoscarabs within their abdomens, which are unleashed to effect repairs on nearby Necrons, or consume enemy weapons and armour


In addition, the primary purpose of the Spyder in the 3rd ed. Codex was to assist with We'll Be Back.
   
Made in gb
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We've not seen the updated Spyder entry yet. Bit early to be complaing in about getting a new model/unit that isn't fighting for the same Heavy Support slot (almost like the Reanimator is an Elite slot...)

 
   
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I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.


Yeah, combined with the fact that it's visible from almost anywhere it's a bit of a let down honestly. I haven't seen one live long enough yet to do anything.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

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... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
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Florence, KY

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
From page 66 of Codex Necrons (8th edition):

Unlike their Necron masters, Canoptek Spyders never sleep, but wile away the aeons servicing the structures of their tomb world.

Canoptek Spyders are the caretakers of the Necron Tomb Worlds, not of the Necrons themselves and shouldn't have an effect on Reanimation Protocol rolls as it does not fit their fluff.

*Ahem*
Also from Codex: Necrons (8th ed.), pg.66:
Canoptek Spyders whose primary duties are oversight, rather than direct action, craft slaved hosts of Canoptek Scarabs and nanoscarabs within their abdomens, which are unleashed to effect repairs on nearby Necrons, or consume enemy weapons and armour


In addition, the primary purpose of the Spyder in the 3rd ed. Codex was to assist with We'll Be Back.

Which is implemented as the Canoptek Spyder repairing Necron vehicles, not Warriors, Lychguard, etc.

And at this point in time, most 3rd edition fluff for Necrons is out of date.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Unless the ability synergises incredibly well with stuff on the codex, there seems to have been a major breach between the reanimator's statline and its cost - because as I see it you have a model which shouldn't be more than 75 points, preferably 65. Its not remotely close.
   
Made in gb
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The dark behind the eyes.

I can see the thematic sense of having Spyders assist with Reanimation Protocols. However, it seems like we already have RPs pretty well covered (even without the Reanimator). In particular, Crypteks and characters with Resurrection Orbs would seem to have a comparable effect, whilst also occupying mandatory slots and benefiting from character protection.

Leaving that aside, Spyders are in an awkward place in that they have no real role. Their strength, toughness and attacks imply a melee brawler, yet their WS and BS are fit only for a backfield support unit. And their guns are insanely expensive for non-Rending Shuriken Cannons on a model with BS4+. What's more, in spite of their obvious support model stats, they have no inherent support abilities save for the ability to add 1 measly scarab base per turn to an existing swarm.

About the only meaningful support they can offer is to repair a tiny bit of damage to a vehicle. Unfortunately, the vehicle you'd probably most want to keep alive - the Doomsday Ark - is also a HS choice, so the Spyders are directly competing with it for detachment slots.


As for the Canoptek Reanimator, it's dataslate make me seriously question whether a couple of models got their rules sheets mixed up. It's model is a great, towering beast that closely resembles something from War of the Worlds. So what does it do on the table? Er... it makes a single Necron squad a bit better at reanimating, and gently tickles any enemy that gets close to it.

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 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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Tycho wrote:
I'm more upset and how bad the Statline is for the reanimator. Not sure what they were thinking there.


Yeah, combined with the fact that it's visible from almost anywhere it's a bit of a let down honestly. I haven't seen one live long enough yet to do anything.


It would be seen easily even half the size. Bigger issue is a) buffs rp which is weak rule b) only +1 to unit making hard to make points back. Maybe with lychguard. Skorpek destroyers too small unit size. Warriors you need to save 10 so 60 rolls...

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Yeah, I mean the real issue IMO with the reanimator is that it’s not got a clear role. Even if you made it super cheap, like 50 points, would you take one because it fulfils a role, or because it’d be a cheap, tough body? Or, more precisely, what value do you put on reanimation rolls currently, and how strong would a buff need to be to consider? I feel like if it was an FNP type roll, +1 is an okay buff for a cheapish model, maybe 50 points, but for 110, even with FNP I’d want a reroll, you know? With the current system, I don’t value it at all, and the body is so easily removed that it’s hard to even believe it and Triarch Stalkers are in the same army! The latter is so much more powerful, gives a better buff and is relatively tough for its points, whereas a reanimator looks cool as you sadly remove it from the table. Same issue with the Spyder - even if it moved to elites, would you take one when it doesn’t really help win the game?

Feels like there’s a lot of support units like this in xenos armies, where there’s an interesting idea but it’s so irrelevant in power and doesn’t play to the missions that they’re DOA almost no matter what. Then there’s units which could be great, like deathmarks, but it’s as if the rules writers don’t want them to be good, so give them awful weapons. I don’t understand it, but it is what it is.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maybe it is ment for 1000pts games. In a 2250pts game something with that stats does die very fast, but in small or smaller point games, maybe it can survive a bit longer.

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Yes it should get an RP buff.

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