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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So there's a discussion going on in the general forum that got sidetracked into a debate over whether it makes sense for a Terminator suit to be a precious, hard-to-replace relic in a setting with anti-gravity drives, and it brought up the much more interesting question (in my mind anyway) of how hard it would be to answer that question with a 21st century understanding of science.

It's an interesting question. Consider; is it harder to build functional DC generator, or a standard machine-thread bolt made of tungsten carbide? Any culture that can build a windmill, a compass, and metal jewelry wire has all the tools it needs to build a generator, but it would never occur to them to put those pieces together in the right order without discovering electicity. On the other hand tungsten carbide is a really hard material both to make and to work with, it requires a fairly high level of material science to make anything out of it at all.

To bring that back to the original question, there's really no way to tell how hard an anti-gravity engine or terminator armor actually is to build. All we have to go on is what we see in the fluff and the art.

Thoughts?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Imperiums tech is based on copying known design steps, and is enforced by a galaxy-spanning organisation of well armed psychopaths.

Want to build a terminator suit? Copy these steps exactly. Pray exactly this many times at this point. Turn this screw this many times, then turn it back, then turn it back again, pray, turn, pray, turn, three year sabbatical on the meaning of the screw, return, turn, pray, turn, pray, then remove the screw and fill the hole in, because someone spilled coffee on that page or the only copy of the blueprint for that screw and after a thousand years of discussion this was the official reading.

Want to just skip the whole screw thing? Tech heresy.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Imperium's high tech is also manufactured in a craftsman type model rather than mass produced. Things like lasguns are Leman Russ tanks that are mass produced are not the high tech stuff. The Adeptus Mechanicus is a mystery cult where those that have the knowledge are jealous and only grudgingly dole it out to their disciples. These Tech-Priests form their own secretive factions that don't share knowledge with each other. That creates information silo effects that limit the ability to innovate or improve.

This kind of hoarding seems to occur both at the Forge World level and within individual Forge Worlds. That is why for example Ryza continues to have an edge in plasma technology over other Forge Worlds from the Great Crusade time all the way to the current Rift era. From an out of universe perspective, people might argue that sharing the tech would allow the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus as a whole to better fight off all the threats attacking them, but sharing the tech would reduce Ryza's relative power and so they don't do it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Pretty much what they said. The imperium/Mars actively discourage innovation or efforts to establish means of producing advanced technology without the permission of those who benefit from NOT proliferating such resources.

If you're the only forgeworld within 6 months' warp travel that has the means to produce terminator armor, then you can exchange an order of terminator armor for a lot of favors from the marines you're making them for. If everyone and their grandmother had the means to make terminator armor, the effective value of that same order of armor would drop significantly.

Like, the mechanicus could probably mass-distribute a lot of the gear they equip their skitarii with if they really wanted to. Bionics for all may not be feasible, but you could probably ensure each regiment had some transauranic arquebus and plasma calivers instead of sniper rifles and plasma guns. They could probably equip a decent number of russes with dunecrawler guns. A lot of heavy stubbers/bolters could probably be cognis stubbers just as easily. Heck, you could probably even churn out a lot of combat servitors if you were so inclined.

But handing out that much tech and knowledge would weaken the mechanicus's personal power

Also, it's possible that there are some genuinely difficult to obtain/manufacturer components involved in the construction of rare pieces of tech. The ceramite for a suit of terminator armor could probably be constructed relatively easily, but maybe its power generator requires a rare gas that has to be irradiated while doing laps in a specialized particle collider. Maybe every forgeworld has at least one such particle collider, but that same machine is constantly booked for use constructing large-sale plasma generator components, and the gas is in high demand as component in refractor field generators. So to make terminator armor, you have to secure access to both a constantly sold-out gas as well as to this piece of tech with a two year waiting list.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wyldhunt wrote:
But handing out that much tech and knowledge would weaken the mechanicus's personal power
There is also heavy restriction on who gets to use tech - a good example of that is probably the rosarius, a portable matter-energy converter small enough to be worn as jewelery, powerful enough to rival the iron halo of a chapter master, and easy enough produce that they hand out to every foaming at the mouth preacher that walks though the door. They must produce those things by the millions but it is strictly priesthood and a few chosen others only.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




A.T. wrote:
Wyldhunt wrote:
But handing out that much tech and knowledge would weaken the mechanicus's personal power
There is also heavy restriction on who gets to use tech - a good example of that is probably the rosarius, a portable matter-energy converter small enough to be worn as jewelery, powerful enough to rival the iron halo of a chapter master, and easy enough produce that they hand out to every foaming at the mouth preacher that walks though the door. They must produce those things by the millions but it is strictly priesthood and a few chosen others only.


I think that might be game effect or bias intruding in. As in, preachers that serve the Imperial war machine on the front lines may get the conversion fields in a rosarius form, but not every street corner preacher in a hive world will have them. It might not be every preacher in the Imperial Guard either, but only those that end up in the battles on the table top, which are not exactly very representative of every company level engagement.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Iracundus wrote:
I think that might be game effect or bias intruding in. As in, preachers that serve the Imperial war machine on the front lines may get the conversion fields in a rosarius form, but not every street corner preacher in a hive world will have them. It might not be every preacher in the Imperial Guard either, but only those that end up in the battles on the table top, which are not exactly very representative of every company level engagement.
While i'd not expect your everyday street crazy or redeptionist to carry one (and indeed the old frateris preachers didn't get one) they do seem extremely commonplace.

To quote the current Imperial Guard codex - "All members of the Ecclesiarchy carry with them a rosarius" (page 60) - and that is going to be a lot of priests even if you limit it to just those in combat positions or of some form of seniority. Every confessor, cardinal, deacon, and even travelling hobos like Jacobus have one. The sheer scale of the church and imperium means that the number they produce has to be absurdly vast for even a lowball estimate.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







No good comes from taking every statement in a codex as infallible truth. I mean, just look at what happens if you try to accept GW's statements about how big a Space Marine chapter is...
   
 
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