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How do?

So this is a GW centric video. But all you need to do for the wider picture is to replace the word Warhammer with Wargame.

There are good points made about the price side of things, which echo my long standing take on things.

What do you make of it?

Is Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Age of Sigmar the PERFECT hobby for everyone across the globe?

No

One thing that I realised as he was talking is that the game and toy world is chock a block right now. But creativity wise its actually emptier than in the past in some respects. Lego has held on, but many of their kids focused products are more movie action figure focused than builder focused; meccanno is just gone; Hornby is there but pricey and mostly for "old pepole". I don't even know if Airfix and such are even still really promoted at kids in any way or if it is like Hornby and mostly surviving on older customers and fans.

Wargaming in general actually has a creative segment of the market quite empty and almost to itself in terms of big names. Granted if you go full creative with arts and crafts that's as full as it has ever been. But for a "game" and a "toy" GW might have outlasted its former competition.



On the lore front its not as heavily structured as something like Tolkien or such; but its deep; wide and also has a huge amount of that "pulp" appeal. If we ignore the monster elephant in the room of the Horus Heresy series; a lot of the Warhammer tales are short. They are one or two books; they are a short story or a short audio novel. They are fitting into that adventuring segment that the writing world seems to have left behind in the hunt for trilogies and more.





Also its really neat to see someone older coming to the game. I did a poll a while back on Dakka and whilst its also biased in terms of the membership of dakka it showed that a vast bulk of people get into the hobby when they are in their teens. Yet here we have someone who was well past that before he actually got into it.

And yeah the price side is about right, yes its not as cheap as some other games; yes its not a dirt cheap hobby; but the hours to coin exchange is honestly very good. He didn't even go further on that to note that models you bought 10 or more years ago - you can STILL use them. In a world where a year* is enough time for something to be phased out; Warhammer still keeps the bulk of its models valid. Sure some will get cycled out over time, but the bulk of most armies core units are still valid today.



*Look at Magic the Gathering - standard games phase outwards after around a year for a new block); meanwhile computer games many are done and dusted in a few years. Electronics in general cycle pretty darn fast too etc...

Nixxiom....he was not born a Warhammer fan, yet he knows of our ways...

...could he be the one?

well it makes him happy, or least ways some YT filler till Shadowlands drops

But being more about playing I dont give much of a hoot about the fluff of any game i play beyond the broadest of strokes and painting isnt really something im keen on hence X-wing and getting the majority of my stuff commision painted, so not really on the same wavelength

He's definately happy about his hobby, and that's good.

However, whenever I look at my 40K minis, I feel a pang of pain. All the time lost putting these models together and the hours wasted painting them to end up with a mediocre paint job. And maybe a couple hours playing a single game that I could have spent playing five times as many games if it'd been a video game.

I've now had the chance to listen to several 40K audio books, and I certainly like the lore, but as I look over my shoulder, my biggest regret is that I didn't pay a little more to buy models that were already assembled and painted, and maybe spent more time actually playing that prepping for games to watch eight editions slip past me with a handful of games actually played.

And a lot of times I wish I'd never let myself get pulled into buying the minis in the first place.

I don't regret the time I spent on my Warhammer models. Heck, I'm glad I have a backlog to work on now that I don't play anymore because it's actually quite relaxing that way. Well, when my eyes can still focus after a day at work, and I still have energy after the circus of putting the vermin to bed... I can't say I begrudge the time spent playing 4+ hour games a week, because I really enjoyed it, but at some point last summer I just couldn't bring myself to play another game. Here I am writing about it, but hopefully that weird compulsion will eventually go away too.

Its a great video - he's an awesome content creator as well

 Stormonu wrote:
He's definately happy about his hobby, and that's good.

However, whenever I look at my 40K minis, I feel a pang of pain. All the time lost putting these models together and the hours wasted painting them to end up with a mediocre paint job. And maybe a couple hours playing a single game that I could have spent playing five times as many games if it'd been a video game.

I've now had the chance to listen to several 40K audio books, and I certainly like the lore, but as I look over my shoulder, my biggest regret is that I didn't pay a little more to buy models that were already assembled and painted, and maybe spent more time actually playing that prepping for games to watch eight editions slip past me with a handful of games actually played.

And a lot of times I wish I'd never let myself get pulled into buying the minis in the first place.

\\

Do what most players do. Build and paint your one primary army of 2000~ points for 40k and play that through multiple editions with some minor changes. I sat down to touch up some metal 3rd edition Carnifexs last night. Maybe add a box of troops or a unit once an edition or paint a character for fun. If you have the issue with too many armies being unbuilt or rarely playing a game do what Turnip said and just get an army commissioned so it's good to go. I've painted 50 or so armies at this point and only 4 of those were for me.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
well it makes him happy, or least ways some YT filler till Shadowlands drops

But being more about playing I dont give much of a hoot about the fluff of any game i play beyond the broadest of strokes and painting isnt really something im keen on hence X-wing and getting the majority of my stuff commision painted, so not really on the same wavelength

 Stormonu wrote:
He's definately happy about his hobby, and that's good.

However, whenever I look at my 40K minis, I feel a pang of pain. All the time lost putting these models together and the hours wasted painting them to end up with a mediocre paint job. And maybe a couple hours playing a single game that I could have spent playing five times as many games if it'd been a video game.

I've now had the chance to listen to several 40K audio books, and I certainly like the lore, but as I look over my shoulder, my biggest regret is that I didn't pay a little more to buy models that were already assembled and painted, and maybe spent more time actually playing that prepping for games to watch eight editions slip past me with a handful of games actually played.

And a lot of times I wish I'd never let myself get pulled into buying the minis in the first place.

Then sell them and move on.

I know that sounds brutal, and you'll probably take a financial loss on the sale. But seriously, if they bring you only pain and zero happiness, get rid of them.

Life is too short to dwell on past mistakes this way.

 Stormonu wrote:
He's definately happy about his hobby, and that's good.

However, whenever I look at my 40K minis, I feel a pang of pain. All the time lost putting these models together and the hours wasted painting them to end up with a mediocre paint job. And maybe a couple hours playing a single game that I could have spent playing five times as many games if it'd been a video game.

I've now had the chance to listen to several 40K audio books, and I certainly like the lore, but as I look over my shoulder, my biggest regret is that I didn't pay a little more to buy models that were already assembled and painted, and maybe spent more time actually playing that prepping for games to watch eight editions slip past me with a handful of games actually played.

And a lot of times I wish I'd never let myself get pulled into buying the minis in the first place.

Would it be alright to see a picture of some of them?

SamusDrake wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
He's definately happy about his hobby, and that's good.

However, whenever I look at my 40K minis, I feel a pang of pain. All the time lost putting these models together and the hours wasted painting them to end up with a mediocre paint job. And maybe a couple hours playing a single game that I could have spent playing five times as many games if it'd been a video game.

I've now had the chance to listen to several 40K audio books, and I certainly like the lore, but as I look over my shoulder, my biggest regret is that I didn't pay a little more to buy models that were already assembled and painted, and maybe spent more time actually playing that prepping for games to watch eight editions slip past me with a handful of games actually played.

And a lot of times I wish I'd never let myself get pulled into buying the minis in the first place.

Would it be alright to see a picture of some of them?

Link to my "paint blog", though I haven't updated it in a few months: Tackling IG (may update it with a few new pics after this post.)

Thank you, Stormonu. Quite an interesting collection of vintage models you have there. Its good to see the classic RT era Chaos Dreadnought again.

Looks like you just have a hefty workload and its getting you down. Seriously, your armies are huge! I'd say pick your favourite faction and focus on 500 points of models and put everything else aside for another time. Once the bases are done - get that 500 points on the table and start playing. Combat Patrols are being hyped up with 9th edition and now is the time to put that to the test. From there you can then either add to that faction or start work on another in a similar fashion.

Look on the bright side - at least you have plenty of models to choose from!

Well, if the game itself was as good as the minis than definitely perfect.

As long as it isn't - not so much. A beautiful looking but tedious, boring and outdated game.

But he needs to know the alternatives to see this, similarly to people who think Monopoly is a good boardgame because they don't know Agricola, or GWT or Concordia or Terra Mystica or Brass or a thousand others exist.

Cyel wrote:
Well, if the game itself was as good as the minis than definitely perfect.

As long as it isn't - not so much. A beautiful looking but tedious, boring and outdated game.

But he needs to know the alternatives to see this, similarly to people who think Monopoly is a good boardgame because they don't know Agricola, or GWT or Concordia or Terra Mystica or Brass or a thousand others exist.

True but GW is common gateway to other games as you either accept the flaws or look elsewhere, win / win

Well said, you have to start somewhere!

 Shooter wrote:

Is Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Age of Sigmar the PERFECT hobby for everyone across the globe?

No

Checked in on my thread.

Sadly I nicked my finger on the sheer edge of this post.

Off to find an Elastoplast, and will return when the nurse has bandages and kissed my booboos.

If that comment cut you, you need to develop thicker skin.

I have some big armies of 40K Orks, Eldar, IG and Marines. However, i haven't played since late 5th edition, but those minis still get plenty of use in various game systems.

I honestly feel that wargames are a great value for money hobby as I have been spending money on wargames for three decades, and models I used 25+ years ago still get used today!

He’s in the honeymoon phase. Everyone goes through that every time they enter any new hobby or activity. I’d like to hear his thoughts in two or three years from now.

Cyel wrote:
Well, if the game itself was as good as the minis than definitely perfect.

As long as it isn't - not so much. A beautiful looking but tedious, boring and outdated game.

But he needs to know the alternatives to see this, similarly to people who think Monopoly is a good boardgame because they don't know Agricola, or GWT or Concordia or Terra Mystica or Brass or a thousand others exist.

Agreed. The game design for 40k is, let's be Frank here, fething gak. The only reason that the entire UGOIGO enterprise remains is because of circular logic.

Luckily, they have been actually designing games lately that aren't gak, but 40k is not among those august titles.

I've been away from 40k, and gw in general for over a decade now, and the only thing that has pulled be back into interest was sororitas>killteam>warcry. This disparate things are mentioned because they form a trend. Better games, without the massive investiture of money into hundreds of murder dollies, and more importantly, the investiture of my life spent modeling for a game that yields piss poor results in fun vs. investment.

So I can actually look at the ridiculous price of a sisters of battle squad ($60... seriously, gw?) and spend that happily playing a game that is enjoyable while not frittering my life away to paint hundreds of them to play their games. Plus, if the urge takes me, I can buy and paint another faction with the same minimal amount of regret.

I'm glad the guy in the video is happy. He has entered into the honeymoon sequence we have all been through with this game.

I want to see him spend 20 years of time with a company that actively showed disdain for their customers during that period, and then see what he would have to say. His opinions about pricing are naïve at best.

 Overread wrote:
One thing that I realised as he was talking is that the game and toy world is chock a block right now. But creativity wise its actually emptier than in the past in some respects. Lego has held on, but many of their kids focused products are more movie action figure focused than builder focused; meccanno is just gone; Hornby is there but pricey and mostly for "old pepole". I don't even know if Airfix and such are even still really promoted at kids in any way or if it is like Hornby and mostly surviving on older customers and fans.

IIRC they did a range of weird Lego-ish snapfit kits a few years back for kids, but barring that Airfix isn’t aimed at anybody but experienced modellers anymore in my experience.

 DalekCheese wrote:

 Overread wrote:
One thing that I realised as he was talking is that the game and toy world is chock a block right now. But creativity wise its actually emptier than in the past in some respects. Lego has held on, but many of their kids focused products are more movie action figure focused than builder focused; meccanno is just gone; Hornby is there but pricey and mostly for "old pepole". I don't even know if Airfix and such are even still really promoted at kids in any way or if it is like Hornby and mostly surviving on older customers and fans.

IIRC they did a range of weird Lego-ish snapfit kits a few years back for kids, but barring that Airfix isn’t aimed at anybody but experienced modellers anymore in my experience.

Yep which is great for now with a few generations who grew up with models. I wonder where it might leave them in a few decades with no recruitment of new younger blood. Heck could be they end up reliant on the modellers that GW nurtures and snares at a young age.

It will leave them the same place other manual hobbies are, relying on bored older people because video games/digital entertainment have become de-facto creative outlets for kids. Kids learn how to edit videos, build computers in Minecraft and do silly dances on tiktok, not how to glue tanks. Which is honestly no worse or better, just a change that happened.

Anyway, GW or even wargaming is not a perfect hobby, it's fairly exclusionary in who can get into it (requires fairly good manual dexterity, and GW's offerings are aimed at the shrinking middle class customer) but otherwise it is harmless. Not quite on the ease of entry level as RPGs or boardgames, which is what I'd suggest to someone looking into getting into tabletop gaming these days.

Stuff like Root is better balanced than any GW game, more strategic and cheaper and faster to play.

Yeah, board games are several miles ahead of miniature war-games when it comes to game-play these days.

Yes but games like root are kind of apples and oranges.

Each new boardgame is its own self contained design. While games like 40 work in iterations of the same design.

Lets us a more apropos example. I like to use Okko: era of the Asagiri in discussions like this. Its a boardgame, everything you need to play comes in one box, yet it is also a highly thematic skirmish miniature game that uses card standees (and also had miniatures produced for it if yournwere so inclined).

It was quite good. Its popularity waned as it went put of print and has largely become forgotten in mainstream gaming. Yet even though it is one of the least popular boardgame miniature skirmish games, it is still miles and miles ahead of 40k in terms of engaging and solid design choices for each unique model.

And thats the shame about new editions of 40k. Because after 9 editions, youd be forgiven for assuming they'd either be making a new design in each edition, or refining it to a razor sharp edge after 33 years..
Gw have done neither. And thats what makes it an obvious cash grab that relies on loyalty of the consumer because of sunk cost fallacy, rather than innovation of solid game design.

And the irony is that GW cant innovate game like 40k, because of the circular logic hole that they have dug with consumers. Consumers are shackled by sunk cost fallacy, and if it changed too drasticslly, then they'd be up in arms about their sacrosanct game being modified, more than they already do each edition.

Anyone who thinks 9th edition is some new era of wargaming utopia is naïve.

 Vulcan wrote:

Then sell them and move on.

I know that sounds brutal, and you'll probably take a financial loss on the sale. But seriously, if they bring you only pain and zero happiness, get rid of them.

Life is too short to dwell on past mistakes this way.

Agreed. I've liquidated entire projects for pennies on the dollar just to make the pain of my failures go away.