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Hello folks,

I have two questions:

1. How safe is Pay-Pal for online shopping?

2. Is it still an adventure to order stuff from Raging Heroes?

I had two online orders from two different shops in the past I paid with paypal. The ordered items never arrived, the shops never answered my request so send stuff or give the money back and I got my money back through papal within about two weeks. So as long as you don't use the send money to friends option (doing so paypal won't help you) I consider it safe.

I bought RH only second hand or in another shop not directly from them, but a friend of mine has ordered a lot from RH without problems. The quality of the minis was not consistent, though. The newer ones (knights of the chalice, the new Jailbirds and such) came in excellent quality. Some older models (mostly older jailbirds) came in not always perfect quality (minor mold slip, missing detail).

I have not personally ordered from Raging Heroes but I have never had an issue getting my money back from PayPal when disputing a transaction where the goods/services fee was paid (i.e. not family and friends).

Posting so I can find the thread tomorrow. When I’m sober

Like others I've never had a problem with PP.

Paypal is pretty safe. When you deal with a site like Raging Heroes they've paypal built into the site transaction system so you don't even have the option to use "friends and family" money transfer - its purely a consumer transaction so you get all the protection benefits. In general Paypal tends to weight its protections more toward the customer than the seller.

As for RH I've not ordered from them, but I've also not heard of huge problems with regard to ordering from them either. Of course with the current climate orders might take longer to process and delivery might also be slower than normal; but otherwise you should get your products.

Have been using PayPal for nearly two decades without issue (knocks on wood). I ordered last year from RH during a sale and items showed up in about a month.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Hello folks,

I have two questions:

1. How safe is Pay-Pal for online shopping?

2. Is it still an adventure to order stuff from Raging Heroes?

I haven't dealt with Raging Heroes in almost six years, but Paypal is...well, interesting.

Often, Paypal is your only option for dealing with lots of stuff, so the safety question is, well, moot if you want to buy something, you may have no other choice.

However, if something does go wrong, DO NOT count on Paypal to make it right, particularly right now.

I ran into an issue where I made a purchase in April, was given a tracking number that indicated delivery in June to the wrong Zip code entirely and the item never arrived to my door, and disputed the payment. Here is what I found.

Creating a dispute in the Resolution center will probably take a couple of months for Paypal to review, mine didn't get looked at until August after filing it in June. In my case, the seller provided an entirely different tracking number to Paypal than the one they gave me which indicated delivery to the correct zip code but for an entirely different time period. Because that tracking number indicated delivery to the correct city/zip code, Paypal simply accepted their word despite the inconsistencies and ruled in their favor.

I then discovered that there is literally no way to contact anyone by phone at Paypal, no matter what phone prompts you use or how many calls you make, you will be taken to a hold line for a minute or two after navigating the prompts before an automated message will play and tell you they cannot help and it ends the call. I'm not sure why they don't just close the phones and tell people they're unavailable, but there is literally no way to get through to a human being by phone.

Support chat will take many hours at best, usually days, to respond to any messages, and it will be a different person every time. In my case, they simply kept moving the goalposts and refused to accept USPS documents (that they requested I provide) showing that the tracking number the seller provided was delivered to an address that was not my own in both cases, they simply would not accept they were from USPS.

Contact through Facebook or other avenues went nowhere.

The Paypal community forums were of no assistance whatsoever, it's literally just users helping other users with basic "how to" questions, Paypal Support does not involve themselves in any way with there.

The *only* way I was able to get my money back was by making a throw-away Twitter account and tweeting Paypal CEO Dan Schulman directly about the issue, after which PayPal support reached out directly to me and the issue was resolved in an hour and a half after that.

So, when possible, avoid Paypal. In some instances, you may have no other option, but do so knowing that Paypal support is essentially nonexistent and that they probably won't help even if do get hold of someone.

Alternatively, I was scammed on Ebay and given a tracking number for something going somewhere else, and the resolution service required me to wait 7 days to try and resolve directly with the vendor (who had deleted their account instantly after the scam was deployed) and they refunded my money in full after a single e-mail on the 7th day after the dispute was raised as they had stated. This was also during the lockdown.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, however.

I have been using paypal for years and I have only had positive experiences.

Was that pre or post Covid? Because my experience did not appear at all atypical given the postings on their own community forums (where my issue appeared particularly widespread with no help forthcoming from Paypal support) and various social media outlets in recent months, and several other people I know locally have had significant issues contacting anyone at Paypal regarding other issues (locked accounts, transfers, etc) lately. I suspect the fact that the vendor deleted their account probably helped things on your end.

I just tried the phone lines again for giggles, same issue, just disconnects after getting through the prompts.

It was in May. I could have been lucky, or perhaps there is a difference in service centres either side of the pond.

Anything's possible, I'm certainly glad your issue was resolved promptly without having to go through the hoops I did . I'd never had a bad experience with Paypal until then, but ho boy was that a frustrating experience.

 Flinty wrote:
Alternatively, I was scammed on Ebay and given a tracking number for something going somewhere else, and the resolution service required me to wait 7 days to try and resolve directly with the vendor (who had deleted their account instantly after the scam was deployed) and they refunded my money in full after a single e-mail on the 7th day after the dispute was raised as they had stated. This was also during the lockdown.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, however.

I have been using paypal for years and I have only had positive experiences.

I think thats more to do with ebay resolution system being usualy top notch than paypal in itself.

https://www.paypal.com/my/webapps/mpp/paypal-buyer-protection#:~:text=When%20something%20goes%20wrong%20with,t%20arrive%20at%20your%20doorstep.

According to paypal they still have the buyer protect T&C, which I thought has changed a few months ago but cannot find any articles. It seems in principle nothing has changed in this regard, if the item is not as described or does not arrive they refund you.Thats on top of any local laws you have in your country as well I guess.
I don't see why they wouldn't. Ive never had an issue with paypal not refunding personally but then again I havent had issues with not getting stuff or getting wrong stuff for the most part.
Might have to jump through a few hoops and be a bit of a ballache (what isint these days with these sort of companies) but I don't see no reason why they wouldn't cover a refund.

I've not had any issues with Raging Heroes though I don't order often, last time was about a year ago. There are people that order more often that post in the New and Rumors section. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/775787.page#10848847

Oh boy, Raging heroes is an up and down for me....
I ordered 3 minis there so far. The Jailbird was totally fine, the keeper of secret knockoff was so so...had a few mistakes, 1 horn was broken and not in the box and the surface was rough at some points, behaved weirdly after priming, even if I handled it like every other mini I ever primed, but ultimately works out.

Now the last one I ordered, which was one of the She wolves, is a total disaster.
The tail is bent beyond any reason, so I would need a lot of heat to bend it to the correct place. The place where the tail is supposed to go is messed up with some mold errors, I don't even know how to fix that without green stuff and the worst part probably is that there is what I'd like to call a fold-moldline through the whole front of the mini. What I describe as a fold mold is basically having a moldline, but 1 side is raised and it looks as if the other is pushed slightly under it, so I can't really shave it off, cause the details don't allign.
Contacted customer service and they wrote back a day later. Then asked to send photos, which I did and she replied again the next day, that they will get back to me...then 2 months of nothing and I asked again and the next day I got the reply "It seems that everything is fine, here's a picture how you are supposed to attach the tail".

Wrote a negative review listing all the errors and then got a message that they are looking into it...it's been 2 weeks now.


so yeah: It's an adventure...sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

Paypal on the other hand is probably the safest online payment method after Amazon prime for me. Had 2 instances where I never got the wares and both times I got my money back. (one was probably lost in transit from china and the other was a scam with fake products, I fell into) Granted they try to contact the seller first and I was lucky that in my case one time they simply did never react to paypal and the other time they agreed that it might be lost.

Also never complain to them with a 3 page e-mail. I am on my second account there now, cause my first one got banned after complaining to them.They constantly blocked me for suspicious activity and let me jump through hoops by wanting scanned ID and whatnot, which I did 1 time, then got blocked a second time and did it again. By the third time I wrote said complaint mail, along the lines of "If you want me to do your office work, you have to pay me" and listed every communication I had with them since the first block and then my account got suspended.
Also my bank account number is linked to the blocked first, but I can't delete it, cause I need to ID myself again for it to be unblocked and being able to delete my own data, but I fear that that would mess with my current account, so I can only use their credit card features but nothing tied to bank transfers XD

I haven't had any issues with PayPal or placing orders, but I do have quality control issues with Raging Heroes models. Every model I've purchased from them has arrived with some measure of mould slippage; I needed to get a replacement Coyote Command box just to get enough parts to make *two* viable models. As far as I can tell, there are no build instructions for any infantry kit, so it's your guess as to which arm goes with which weapon and there's no clear way for the Not!Sororitas's backpacks to attach to the body.

I'll also just add that I've gotten more phising emails claiming to be PayPal than my credit cards. Check the actual email address and header. Unfortunately, some tablet apps will, for your convenience, not display this information.

You can attach your credit card to your PayPal account, rather than your bank. I'd like to know from others if this helps. That is, you'd raise the problem to your CC company if PayPal isn't working out.

We have two cc's, one for regular transactions (eg. Amazon, Safeway, Walmart) and one for ones we only occasionally use. This lets us cancel the second one if we use a third party that turns out to be a scam, although we've had to cancel both cc's regardless. The CC's are also set for alerts when there's a transaction, and a CC will notify us if it detects an irregular transaction.

Paypal always contacts you with your full registered name. Anything "dear customer" is a scam to be binned.

 Overread wrote:
Paypal always contacts you with your full registered name. Anything "dear customer" is a scam to be binned.

That is good to know, I didn't know that before, but also me being in a german country, most phishing mails are too obvious to fall for them, since most of them are machine translated XD

Yeah a lot of the english ones also have errors.

There are also other tips, eg a "your account is limited" etc. type of warning can sound scary. However the best practice is to ignore the email and log into the account via your normal method in your browser - ergo don't use any links in the email.

That way if there IS A problem and it is a legit email your account will reflect that. If its fake then you've only accessed Paypal through your normal means, so you've not used any scam links or such which means you've not given away any information about yourself to the scammer (eg a password).

 Overread wrote:

However the best practice is to ignore the email and log into the account via your normal method in your browser - ergo don't use any links in the email.

Yep, that is the safest practice. If it's legit, you will see the issue represented in some way after logging in anyway.

Paypal is perfectly safe as a payment processor. Don't go manually entering an email and "send money to friends/family," but using checkout with a credit card is perfectly normal and I do it all the time.

Why should we not enter the email manually?

That’s pretty much the only way I can think of to buy items from fellow Dakkanauts in the Swap Shop.

Manual entering of emails is safe so long as you use the business option not the friends and family. Plus assuming you enter the email correctly!
As noted its the only way to trade with people who don't have business accounts and who are just doing personal trades, such as secondhand model sales.


Anyone who tries to get you to pay by friends and family should be avoided. The 3% isn't much and honestly worth it for the protection it gives. If you don't have it you basically cannot recover any money.

So, I’ve used Friends and Family so that I pay the fee rather than having the seller pay the fee. I would feel like I negotiated in bad faith if the seller ended up with less than the promised amount. So, how much do I need to add to the total to ensure the seller gets the right amount of money if I don’t use Friends and Family? 3%?

TECHNICALLY sellers can't have you "pay the fee" which means they can't add the amount to the amount after agreeing upon it. However in practice and reality sellers just increase the 3% on whatever they are asking for initially. So if they want £30 they just list the price as £33.


As for why its not a good idea, its not about being in good faith. If you use Friends and Family you, as a buyer, have zero protections against any fraud. They can run off with the money and you have basically nothing you can do about it except reporting them on whatever platform you spoke to them on. With a business transaction you can request a refund; you can do something if they ship something to you that isn't in the advertised condition; or fake or otherwise run off with your money etc..


Like I said anyone trading already expects you to use the merchant option and to lose the 3%.

Hmmm. I was not aware they expected that.

So far the only times I have been ripped off by sellers have all been Kickstarters.

By and large most people are generally honest. They want to sell and you want to buy and whilst there might be a hiccup here and there; most are wanting to do an honest trade.

The risks come with that one a thousand who are out to scam; or those who don't intend to but end up doing it (eg they are very flaky with communications etc...). You might trade for years and never have a problem; but you can bet when you do chances are it will be some fairly serious money on the table when it happens

Just received another PayPal phising email a few minutes ago. And my android's yahoo mail doesn't show the header. It's only inconvenient, but I'd rather do something else every other week than check mail headers.

If this isn't an inconvenience for *you*, sure, use PayPal.

I've had no problems with PayPal. I'd rather they have my credit card info than giving it to a dozen different retailers with potentially sketchy cybersecurity. And as others have mentioned, the extra layer of resolution (Paypal, credit card provider) is useful in resolving an issue if it arises.