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https://strataminiatures.com/shop/?store-page=Dungeons-and-Diversity-c57880798&fbclid=IwAR0yEN-EgFwt1MI2GX9cyRt3dPAJTV2KL0sB5KATffKzv2TWLmQEqnYfoOI

What is Dungeons and Diversity?

Creating an inclusive and welcoming Roleplaying environment means a great deal to us, so we’d like to say thank you for showing your support. As well as being able to own some unique and lovingly created characters, buying this model will help support disability work with 25% of your purchase being donated to https://www.ehlers-danlos.org/

We hope our Dungeons and Disability miniatures will brings you many hours of awesome adventures. Part of our passion for these miniatures were fueled by some amazing rules created by Sara (@mustangart)

Rules and Background: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ysDrH2vqKz6NSGkf3_0WX5tV-Ch_t_N_?fbclid=IwAR2RjQ_DooZEBzCNs-iXsp1tgn-cXD9JQ7jgg4Z3fajvezabf4Xj7Tr_4L8


If you want to support Sara in creating more rules, why not check out her https://www.patreon.com/mustangsart?fbclid=IwAR1ZuT3ckiTUg7h8YD5gITeYOW4mR5vaI6quExpsD5XVafiXgcwgTCpF4xU


human druid


elf rogue


tiefling cleric


barbarian dwarf

Edit: They are on 25mm bases to give folk an idea of size/scale

a really neat idea and some good looking renders (hope the casts live up to them) and they'll certainly help inclusion for some youngsters who want to play a character closer to themselves in physical ability

I hope it does well enough that they consider expanding the classes/races available

Really neat idea and the renders do look neat. I hope they do well and can certainly see a nice market for models of this type and more.

These look amazing!

Dumb question, but I'm assuming they're 28mm?

Those are pretty cool.

The dwarf needs something to drive while holding his two axes though, he can't always roll downhill. Maybe someone who moves him, or longer axe handles to use them as ski poles.

john_chandler wrote:
Dumb question, but I'm assuming they're 28mm?

I can't see the scale stated anywhere, but they're STLs so you should be able to re-size them.

beast_gts wrote:

john_chandler wrote:
Dumb question, but I'm assuming they're 28mm?

I can't see the scale stated anywhere, but they're STLs so you should be able to re-size them.

True, but I was thinking of the metal/resin versions.

Absolutely a cool idea.

Dwarf needs axe blades on the wheels or something. Bladed wheels perhaps?

When I think bad asses in wheel chairs my brain always goes to Heartless of the Four Constables. They need a pretty boy kung fu tactician up in there with all sorts of chains, knives, and throwing weapons!
...but that just may be me pining for more wuxia- influenced models on the tabletop.

I'm going to keep my eyes on this one!

john_chandler wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

john_chandler wrote:
Dumb question, but I'm assuming they're 28mm?

I can't see the scale stated anywhere, but they're STLs so you should be able to re-size them.

True, but I was thinking of the metal/resin versions.

i'm sure they'll be in the 28-35mm range most D&D stuff is, but as you say there's nothing on the website to say that I can see,

I've messaged them to ask and will report back

Ohh thats a cool idea!

Id be interested to see how "over the top" a Gnome inventor/tinker character would look.

So wait, the idea here is that characters who live in a setting where you can magically cure basically anything unless you're the kind of dirt-poor that could never afford a magic wheelchair anyway would continue to use wheelchairs rather than just curing whatever ails them?

Okay. Sure is nice of the evil overlord to construct their dungeon of doom and secret lair to modern accessibility standards...

 Yodhrin wrote:
Okay. Sure is nice of the evil overlord to construct their dungeon of doom and secret lair to modern accessibility standards...

Well, we have to be inclusive now, Yod.

That dwarf is screaming for me to buy him.

Will there be resin releases, or just STLs?

Looks like you can buy the minis or the STLs.

The sculpts are nice but I'm genuinely wondering if that's really something that people in wheelchairs are asking for.
I think it would be nice to have more fantasy elements in the chair themselves, like one floating magicaly instead of having wheels, or having a steam engine, or havin a battle-plow.

 Yodhrin wrote:
So wait, the idea here is that characters who live in a setting where you can magically cure basically anything unless you're the kind of dirt-poor that could never afford a magic wheelchair anyway would continue to use wheelchairs rather than just curing whatever ails them?

Who said that's the setting they live in?

 Tim the Biovore wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
So wait, the idea here is that characters who live in a setting where you can magically cure basically anything unless you're the kind of dirt-poor that could never afford a magic wheelchair anyway would continue to use wheelchairs rather than just curing whatever ails them?

Who said that's the setting they live in?

Exactly, not everyone plays in Eberron or <insert other setting where mundane tasks are done wtih magic>.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
That dwarf is screaming for me to buy him.

Will there be resin releases, or just STLs?

there are both stls and physical options (resin with metal bits although whats's what isn't shown)

 Yodhrin wrote:
So wait, the idea here is that characters who live in a setting where you can magically cure basically anything unless you're the kind of dirt-poor that could never afford a magic wheelchair anyway would continue to use wheelchairs rather than just curing whatever ails them?

Okay. Sure is nice of the evil overlord to construct their dungeon of doom and secret lair to modern accessibility standards...

It's incredibly dumb and while the miniatures are nice, the whole exercise reveals an exceptionally unpleasant mentality towards fantasy.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Tim the Biovore wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
So wait, the idea here is that characters who live in a setting where you can magically cure basically anything unless you're the kind of dirt-poor that could never afford a magic wheelchair anyway would continue to use wheelchairs rather than just curing whatever ails them?

Who said that's the setting they live in?

Exactly, not everyone plays in Eberron or <insert other setting where mundane tasks are done wtih magic>.

Ah okay, so it's not a typical D&D setting with ultra-high-magic then(although frankly, I haven't seen a D&D setting with low enough magic to preclude magical healing in over a decade). So now either these chairs are even rarer and more expensive by virtue of making use of a rare and potentially scarce resource, in which case the attempt to introduce diversity has only led to classism as only fabulously wealthy merchants and the nobility will have access to them(have fun doing wheelies down the main street of town while all the poor crippled beggars languish in the gutter I suppose), or they're not magical at all just wheelchairs, which only amplifies the accessibility issues. That Rogue isn't going to be sneaking up on many folk in a non-magic wood & iron banded wheelchair

Seriously people, do the non-crazy town disabled a favour and just donate the entire sum you'd have spent on this nonsense directly to the charity.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Tim the Biovore wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
So wait, the idea here is that characters who live in a setting where you can magically cure basically anything unless you're the kind of dirt-poor that could never afford a magic wheelchair anyway would continue to use wheelchairs rather than just curing whatever ails them?

Who said that's the setting they live in?

Exactly, not everyone plays in Eberron or <insert other setting where mundane tasks are done wtih magic>.

Ah okay, so it's not a typical D&D setting with ultra-high-magic then(although frankly, I haven't seen a D&D setting with low enough magic to preclude magical healing in over a decade). So now either these chairs are even rarer and more expensive by virtue of making use of a rare and potentially scarce resource, in which case the attempt to introduce diversity has only led to classism as only fabulously wealthy merchants and the nobility will have access to them(have fun doing wheelies down the main street of town while all the poor crippled beggars languish in the gutter I suppose), or they're not magical at all just wheelchairs, which only amplifies the accessibility issues. That Rogue isn't going to be sneaking up on many folk in a non-magic wood & iron banded wheelchair

Seriously people, do the non-crazy town disabled a favour and just donate the entire sum you'd have spent on this nonsense directly to the charity.

"Oh no, the dastardly goblins have ... pushed Eliza the wheelchair user over ... and now he can't get up. Why did we bring this guy with us again?"

There are plenty of Fantasy books which are magic heavy where the hero (or side character) has a illness or injury magic can't fix

cuses, culture, some gods not liking the ones that do healing or unexplained 'nope, not fixable'

and if your running a classic dungeon once you get in there it's all nice 10x10x10 corridors and rooms, perfectly accessible (although you might not get through some of the secret doors)…..

and yes that is dumb, but so are dungeons full of random monsters who would swiftly starve in a game world with more thought behind it

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
and yes that is dumb, but so are dungeons full of random monsters who would swiftly starve in a game world with more thought behind it

That's bad dungeon design, and a failure to construct a compelling world imo. Dungeons should have, on even a basic level, a semi-functional ecosystem in which the presence of monsters is explained by their environment, and the monsters not just be a random selection of stat blocks.

Makes me want this guy

http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Mad_Hamish

Re: "unrealistic"

1) you're really going to pick a fight with trying to be inclusive as the "unrealistic" part of fantasy settings? Whether you'e talking magic, dumb physics, alignment, mass, the bizarre way religion and faith work in a setting where gods are demonstrably real, etc. there are about a million other social and practical in-world things (plus metagame stuff like power gaming or stat dumping) to nit-pick before getting to the absurdity of encouraging someone identify with a character that they like, with their friends or, hell, choose a character who needs a wheelchair because they think it's an interesting backstory choice.

2) Orlando linked to their documents outlining why and how they felt wheelchairs fit.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Re: "unrealistic"

1) you're really going to pick a fight with trying to be inclusive as the "unrealistic" part of fantasy settings? Whether you'e talking magic, dumb physics, alignment, mass, the bizarre way religion and faith work in a setting where gods are demonstrably real, etc. there are about a million other social and practical in-world things (plus metagame stuff like power gaming or stat dumping) to nit-pick before getting to the absurdity of encouraging someone identify with a character that they like, with their friends or, hell, choose a character who needs a wheelchair because they think it's an interesting backstory choice.

I've always found this something of a dishonest, "You too!" kind of response. Fantasy realism is obviously selective, but I struggle to see how the presence of dragons and gods, etc. then permits something that seems outright dumb and completely impractical. I also don't really think metagame issues really have any relevance here, since that is basically an issue that should be handled with a conversation between the GM and 'offending' player. It has nothing to do with the game world itself.

At the end of the day, this really just comes down to GM and player preference. Thankfully I play with people who all thought this was really dumb, and didn't fit their vision of a fantasy world.

All I can think of are the Chronicles of Thomas Covenent, the Unbeliever.

If a main character can be a Leper for the better part of 6 novels, why not wheelchairs?

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Re: "unrealistic"

1) you're really going to pick a fight with trying to be inclusive as the "unrealistic" part of fantasy settings? Whether you'e talking magic, dumb physics, alignment, mass, the bizarre way religion and faith work in a setting where gods are demonstrably real, etc. there are about a million other social and practical in-world things (plus metagame stuff like power gaming or stat dumping) to nit-pick before getting to the absurdity of encouraging someone identify with a character that they like, with their friends or, hell, choose a character who needs a wheelchair because they think it's an interesting backstory choice.

2) Orlando linked to their documents outlining why and how they felt wheelchairs fit.

Too add to this, one of the biggest things about RPG adventuring is increasing diversity of the setting. The unleashing of imagination. If you can have dragons and ogors and cubes of moving jelly and a billion other things that the imagination can call up then surely a few wheelchairs isn't beyond the realms of fantasy.

Besides we've many famous wheeled characters or otherwise crippled/disabled ones. Discworld has already raised one in this thread and we can also raise X-Men for having another. I'm sure if we put our heads together we can think of a good few other fantasy stories where not every character is a gleaming pinnacle of robust health.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blood reaper wrote:
Thankfully I play with people who all thought this didn't fit their vision of a fantasy world.

In the end surely that's the most important thing? Surely we can all allow other groups to be diverse however they want. Some iwll argue till they are blue in the face that dragons can only have 2 legs and 2 wings; others will argue that they can be any shape or size. Different groups and different games and different stories and settings are all part of the vast diversity that RPG gaming unlocks. Surely we should be ENCOURAGING diversity in all things not limiting it? This isn't just wheelchairs its everything - from wizards to dragons to cave and dungeon design and more.

 blood reaper wrote:
something that seems outright dumb and completely impractical.

Honest question. Do you play in a highly realist setting? Do you require rules for fatigue, weather conditions, equipment wear, etc.? Do you discourage "unrealistic" stuff like castles that aren't architecturally sound, towns that don't reflect probable class demographics? If players use the wrong sort of armor for an environment are they penalized?

Ultimately: what is your threshold between fantasy realism vs. outright dumb, and why does it matter to you if someone else's is different? It isn't even like a tabletop miniatures game where you might not like someone's modification of canon (or the designers' modification of canon) and you might run across it in some unexpected circumstance: it's just a game mod.

If you actually read the document, they did a decently thorough job coming up with mechanics that accounted for their fantasy version of a wheelchair. including gear, abilities, designer notes, etc I don't agree with all of it, but they put some effort into it.

The models look really cool, and more options for RPG characters is always nice. Not everyone likes to RP Sir Cookiecutter McWonderbread.