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So, that´s the question.

My opinion is on this video:




And yours?

I want to discuss about it!!

No.

Death contains FeC who are very good.

Also, do not throw shade on Nehekhara.

"Death" is a Grand Alliance; while it could be considered a faction in a technical sense in reality it is not. Evaluating a GA as if it is a faction just does not work as a concept, so the premise of this thread is moot from the onset.

Apologies if that sounds harsh.

Yeaaaah, hard to take you seriously when OBR and FEC exist in Death, not to mention the click-baity title of the thread. Death is in a pretty good spot, outside of a few outliers that need updates (Nighthaunt mainly).

Not to mention the time in the spotlight that Nighthaunt or LoN (I don't remember which) recently had with Arkhan the Black and loads and loads of Hexwraiths. So, which Death Factions are bad? Tomb Kings and Nighthaunt, when compared to other Death Factions and that's about it.

HAHAHA no... not even close. I did listen to you a little bit to see why you think.

Notes about your video:

When talking about something of this topic don't go over "what each faction is" that is a waste, people watching this will know what factions are. And you didn't even talk about the grand alliances you just gave a small trait then named who is in them... really bad and not even informative if you are talking about that.

For death, you said magic was "not good" YOU HAVE ARCHON THE BLASK ANS NAGASH.

You said something, didn't understand at all, something about LoN, didn't understand, went on a rant about Fantasy, that has nothing to do with AoS so didn't understand the point. This part was hugely pointless and didn't get your point across. Abilities assuming in LoN, you say things needs to change, but you give no reasons why or examples. You didn't talk about what made them bad. Again just pointless ranting,

All i got about of NH "you need a 10 to win or you lose" which is not the case at all if you actually played NH, there are battalions and you don't put all your eggs in 1 basket or you will have a bad time. You still need other things. NH plays best as a horde army with a couple hammer units just like BoC. You ranted about weakest can be defeat for bad saves... YOU CAN"T BE REND AND HAS A AFTER SAVE, many armies only have 5+ armor and nothing else. Yes they need some help, but IMO its just point changes.

OBR, honestly didn't understand you other than "hard as a rock" you said something about Orks? But IDK why you talk about Orks... You said you can not kill a MSU unit? WTF OBR are insanely good at melee with their buffs and can easily kill MSU. You just suffer at getting boxed in if you are taking 2 blocks and heroes, every style type of army has a weakness. You don't like that weakness play it differently, take cavalry, 10mans, catapults, etc...


From what I got out of all your Rants, over all you seem to want a 1 trick pony comp army and b.c Death doesn't give that to you they are bad. Terrible video.

Hello, I will give an answer to you.
First of all, to most of the users.
Then to Amishprn86, who edit his thread in order to include the last paragraph that he uses also on the youtube video. Thanks for watching.

So first of all, I will talk to the first ones that were polite and said that Death has OBR and FEC.

Yes, I´m not saying that OBR and FEC are bad armies. OBR are very god, problably tier 1, and FEC is good to (but not as good as new armies as tzeench, lumineth... etc).

OBR were nerfed. Petrifex dissapear for the game, but they are still the best death army in the game. But other factions have some armies at the same level:

- Destruction: Big Waagh! and Beastclaw.
- Order: New stormcast msu list, Cities, Lumineth, Kharadron, Seraphon (well... they are tier god). And maybe Khaine elves and Idoneth, but I think they´re a bit worse.
- Chaos: Tzzench and Belakor list.

So they have more than one tier 1 or tier god list.

And fec have options, they have some strengths (they are ultra fast, they are very good on the combat phase...). But they are to weak and extrema shooting list like some tier 1 or tier god armies have can destroy our models.

I´m not saying that "all the death armies are too bad and we´re on the floor". Yes, LoN and NH needs a rework, but Fec and OBR are competitive. I´m just saying that other Alliances have more armies on good tiers than us.

I know that today there are just a few tournaments in order to follow the meta, but since GHB2020...

Seraphon are not god tier, that space is reserved for the likes of pre-nerf Slaanesh or GHB1 Tzeentch. Beastclaw is not an allegiance anymore; Ogors have been lumped together under Mawtribe. Both Ogors and Orruks are hard-countered by Coalesced Seraphon though so are strictly secondary as tourney contenders. The Petrifax nerf mainly just means an offensive loss from no longer having the extra rend command ability; the +1 to saves is maintained via switching to Katakros' sub-faction (he was already being used anyways).

With all due respect, these are the types of subtleties you need to be evaluating en masse to even come close to legitimizing a claim like the one you are making here.

Also, "Death has less battletomes ranking well in tournaments compared to other Grand Alliances" is a pretty big walk back from "is Death the WORST faction in AoS?" Which I feel speaks to some disingenuous arguments being made.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
HAHAHA no... not even close. I did listen to you a little bit to see why you think.

Notes about your video:

When talking about something of this topic don't go over "what each faction is" that is a waste, people watching this will know what factions are. And you didn't even talk about the grand alliances you just gave a small trait then named who is in them... really bad and not even informative if you are talking about that.

For death, you said magic was "not good" YOU HAVE ARCHON THE BLASK ANS NAGASH.

You said something, didn't understand at all, something about LoN, didn't understand, went on a rant about Fantasy, that has nothing to do with AoS so didn't understand the point. This part was hugely pointless and didn't get your point across. Abilities assuming in LoN, you say things needs to change, but you give no reasons why or examples. You didn't talk about what made them bad. Again just pointless ranting,

All i got about of NH "you need a 10 to win or you lose" which is not the case at all if you actually played NH, there are battalions and you don't put all your eggs in 1 basket or you will have a bad time. You still need other things. NH plays best as a horde army with a couple hammer units just like BoC. You ranted about weakest can be defeat for bad saves... YOU CAN"T BE REND AND HAS A AFTER SAVE, many armies only have 5+ armor and nothing else. Yes they need some help, but IMO its just point changes.

OBR, honestly didn't understand you other than "hard as a rock" you said something about Orks? But IDK why you talk about Orks... You said you can not kill a MSU unit? WTF OBR are insanely good at melee with their buffs and can easily kill MSU. You just suffer at getting boxed in if you are taking 2 blocks and heroes, every style type of army has a weakness. You don't like that weakness play it differently, take cavalry, 10mans, catapults, etc...


From what I got out of all your Rants, over all you seem to want a 1 trick pony comp army and b.c Death doesn't give that to you they are bad. Terrible video.

And know I will give you an answer. I was thinking just about ignoring your commentary in youtube, because the intention is clear. Congrats, you´re the first hater, but remember, I´m saying just my opinion and I´m doing it free: I´m not going to kill anybody or similar. Behind a screen it's very easy to rant, but I prefer only to say my opinion, as I said.

So copy your hate-commentary here, editing your post... Well, if you have enough free time, is good. As I said, even If you dislike it, thank you for watching and for your opinion, but I think that there are kinder ways to express your opinion.

And everything about rants, and trick pony comp army... I´m an ultracompetitive player from T9A and AoS, but I´m the line that I want to play (and win) with the armies I love, I spend time painting and preparing them, making conversions, etc. I can invite you to see other videos (for example, LoG vs Belakor) in order the see analysis and other content I´m uploading (my blog was only in spanish). So I´m not trying to make death the 1 trick pony comp.

Let´s start. About factions, I´m saying why they´re good or bad, in order to finish talking about the Alliance. Also, I´m talking about some ideas that can make some armies competitive (as NH for example, or the rework of LoN/SoulB).

About magic, yes, you have Arkan the Black (not Archon the Blask) and Nagash. But Nagash cost 880 and he was very nerfed on the GH2020. I´m I´m talking about offensive magic: only Nagash is good on that way, but other wizards as Seraphon or Chaos. In generals terms, our buffs are very good.

About LoN I was saying that the army fails because they need more rules similar to the aos 2.0. battletomes. Some strengh vampiric units that can make devasting hurts when charge, and the undead minions that we have today. A game that is similar to the old VC game. So I´m talking about changes for the future: buff-units/chariots for the main undead summonable units and powerfull (but fragile) vampiric glass cannons.

About NH i´m saying that today we need to change some mechanics of the army: if you´re playing with your RD, you need to have some kind of bonus for your charges: and yes, you have battalions, but of all knows what kind of battalions have the NH. They don´t need point changes: NH units are great with Grief rules. They´re ethereal but they´re paying for it. Also they have some rules about moral and today if you spent 1CP you will pass the test, so... Being etheral and being fragile is possible because you´re paying for it and today the game is full of Mortal Wounds.

We´re not talking about Fec, so let´s finish with OBR. And yes, I was talking about orruks: I´m saying that today, the army is at the same level as orruks and ogres (beastclaw riders). But on this point we´re thinking more or less the same, just that you missunderstood me, probably my problem and I´m sorry about that. I will talk about solutions and about weakness (ofc OBR don´t need to be god tier, as they were with Katakros, mortek and catapults when we were using Petrifex) on their own videos.

So as you see, you can discuss a topic being kind even If you dislike what you listen/see.

Ah, and about your youtube and editing commentary: I won the ETC place using a Chaos army, not a Death one. I´m not saying that death is bad (because they are not bad), I´m saying that they´re the alliance with worse armies, even if 2 of them are good and very good armies (but other alliances have more armies on that tiers).

Greetings


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Seraphon are not god tier, that space is reserved for the likes of pre-nerf Slaanesh or GHB1 Tzeentch. Beastclaw is not an allegiance anymore; Ogors have been lumped together under Mawtribe. Both Ogors and Orruks are hard-countered by Coalesced Seraphon though so are strictly secondary as tourney contenders. The Petrifax nerf mainly just means an offensive loss from no longer having the extra rend command ability; the +1 to saves is maintained via switching to Katakros' sub-faction (he was already being used anyways).

With all due respect, these are the types of subtleties you need to be evaluating en masse to even come close to legitimizing a claim like the one you are making here.

Also, "Death has less battletomes ranking well in tournaments compared to other Grand Alliances" is a pretty big walk back from "is Death the WORST faction in AoS?" Which I feel speaks to some disingenuous arguments being made.

Hello,

You´re totally right, probably that title is better for the things I´m trying to say on the video, and is better for the users in order to try to avoid the click baits. And everything about subtitles is right too.

But about orruks and mawtribes versus seraphon, I thought that most of the armies have the same problem on that match (or vs tzeench).

Greetings.

Death has.... OBR, FEC, LoN, NH and Soulblight. Out of that list, OBR, FEC and LoN have powerful competitive builds. So, a nice 2/3rds of their factions are strong contenders.

Let's compare it to Chaos. Chaos has BOK, BOC, STD, HOS, DOT, MON and Skaven of all flavors. Out of that list, I would consider HOS, DOT and Skaven to be the strong ones, while BOK can reach competitive levels with a cheesy build. Under half of their factions are competitive.

Now, Order. CoS, DoK, Fyreslayers, SCE, KO, IDK, Seraphon, Sylvaneth and the brand-new LRL. Which of them are seen up amongst the winning competition? KO, IDK and Seraphon. Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth and CoS are a sometimes contender I feel. So, 3/9 with LRL likely to join them soon. Under half, with a fair few that can compete well in to favorable match-ups.

And now, Destruction for old times sake. Ironjawz, Bonesplitters, Big Waagh, Ogres and Gloomspite Gitz. Ironjawz and Big Waagh are powerful. BCR from Ogors can be strong, match-up dependant. 3/5 or so of Destruction can perform well.

Edit: splitting up destruction.

I may have mixed some things up, gotten a faction or two wrong, but in general, this list is based off of recent tournament results. Death over all is doing better than most others. I look forward to your video on how Chaos and Order suck because they have a higher percentage of bad to mediocre factions.

Every Grand Alliance has armies (and army builds) filling the whole spectrum from bad to upper-tier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ElAntiguoGuardián wrote:
But about orruks and mawtribes versus seraphon, I thought that most of the armies have the same problem on that match (or vs tzeench).

Greetings.

Orruks and Ogors rely on 2-damage weapon profiles for a very large portion of their damage output; going against Coalesced cuts that in half and neuters those two armies far harder than any of the others. They have ways around it, but starting heavily on the back foot puts them at a disadvantage and the Seraphon can put out a very strong unit lineup to match them. But then Seraphon have bad matchups as well; I suspect Lumineth will be tough for them and properly done Fyreslayers or KO can already slaughter them without much room for Seraphon counter-play.

Not a hater, the way you were talking about the armies, builds, etc.. you seem to only cared about a 1 trick pony builds and didn't even want to look at how to fix the problem you think the army has. Death saves are not one of the problems as you said. Having 3+/4+ or 4+/5+ ethereal and both having an after save is pretty good. Play Beastmen if you want to see bad saves.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Spoiler:

 ElAntiguoGuardián wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
HAHAHA no... not even close. I did listen to you a little bit to see why you think.

Notes about your video:

When talking about something of this topic don't go over "what each faction is" that is a waste, people watching this will know what factions are. And you didn't even talk about the grand alliances you just gave a small trait then named who is in them... really bad and not even informative if you are talking about that.

For death, you said magic was "not good" YOU HAVE ARCHON THE BLASK ANS NAGASH.

You said something, didn't understand at all, something about LoN, didn't understand, went on a rant about Fantasy, that has nothing to do with AoS so didn't understand the point. This part was hugely pointless and didn't get your point across. Abilities assuming in LoN, you say things needs to change, but you give no reasons why or examples. You didn't talk about what made them bad. Again just pointless ranting,

All i got about of NH "you need a 10 to win or you lose" which is not the case at all if you actually played NH, there are battalions and you don't put all your eggs in 1 basket or you will have a bad time. You still need other things. NH plays best as a horde army with a couple hammer units just like BoC. You ranted about weakest can be defeat for bad saves... YOU CAN"T BE REND AND HAS A AFTER SAVE, many armies only have 5+ armor and nothing else. Yes they need some help, but IMO its just point changes.

OBR, honestly didn't understand you other than "hard as a rock" you said something about Orks? But IDK why you talk about Orks... You said you can not kill a MSU unit? WTF OBR are insanely good at melee with their buffs and can easily kill MSU. You just suffer at getting boxed in if you are taking 2 blocks and heroes, every style type of army has a weakness. You don't like that weakness play it differently, take cavalry, 10mans, catapults, etc...


From what I got out of all your Rants, over all you seem to want a 1 trick pony comp army and b.c Death doesn't give that to you they are bad. Terrible video.

And know I will give you an answer. I was thinking just about ignoring your commentary in youtube, because the intention is clear. Congrats, you´re the first hater, but remember, I´m saying just my opinion and I´m doing it free: I´m not going to kill anybody or similar. Behind a screen it's very easy to rant, but I prefer only to say my opinion, as I said.

So copy your hate-commentary here, editing your post... Well, if you have enough free time, is good. As I said, even If you dislike it, thank you for watching and for your opinion, but I think that there are kinder ways to express your opinion.

And everything about rants, and trick pony comp army... I´m an ultracompetitive player from T9A and AoS, but I´m the line that I want to play (and win) with the armies I love, I spend time painting and preparing them, making conversions, etc. I can invite you to see other videos (for example, LoG vs Belakor) in order the see analysis and other content I´m uploading (my blog was only in spanish). So I´m not trying to make death the 1 trick pony comp.

Let´s start. About factions, I´m saying why they´re good or bad, in order to finish talking about the Alliance. Also, I´m talking about some ideas that can make some armies competitive (as NH for example, or the rework of LoN/SoulB).

About magic, yes, you have Arkan the Black (not Archon the Blask) and Nagash. But Nagash cost 880 and he was very nerfed on the GH2020. I´m I´m talking about offensive magic: only Nagash is good on that way, but other wizards as Seraphon or Chaos. In generals terms, our buffs are very good.

About LoN I was saying that the army fails because they need more rules similar to the aos 2.0. battletomes. Some strengh vampiric units that can make devasting hurts when charge, and the undead minions that we have today. A game that is similar to the old VC game. So I´m talking about changes for the future: buff-units/chariots for the main undead summonable units and powerfull (but fragile) vampiric glass cannons.

About NH i´m saying that today we need to change some mechanics of the army: if you´re playing with your RD, you need to have some kind of bonus for your charges: and yes, you have battalions, but of all knows what kind of battalions have the NH. They don´t need point changes: NH units are great with Grief rules. They´re ethereal but they´re paying for it. Also they have some rules about moral and today if you spent 1CP you will pass the test, so... Being etheral and being fragile is possible because you´re paying for it and today the game is full of Mortal Wounds.

We´re not talking about Fec, so let´s finish with OBR. And yes, I was talking about orruks: I´m saying that today, the army is at the same level as orruks and ogres (beastclaw riders). But on this point we´re thinking more or less the same, just that you missunderstood me, probably my problem and I´m sorry about that. I will talk about solutions and about weakness (ofc OBR don´t need to be god tier, as they were with Katakros, mortek and catapults when we were using Petrifex) on their own videos.

So as you see, you can discuss a topic being kind even If you dislike what you listen/see.

Ah, and about your youtube and editing commentary: I won the ETC place using a Chaos army, not a Death one. I´m not saying that death is bad (because they are not bad), I´m saying that they´re the alliance with worse armies, even if 2 of them are good and very good armies (but other alliances have more armies on that tiers).

Greetings


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Seraphon are not god tier, that space is reserved for the likes of pre-nerf Slaanesh or GHB1 Tzeentch. Beastclaw is not an allegiance anymore; Ogors have been lumped together under Mawtribe. Both Ogors and Orruks are hard-countered by Coalesced Seraphon though so are strictly secondary as tourney contenders. The Petrifax nerf mainly just means an offensive loss from no longer having the extra rend command ability; the +1 to saves is maintained via switching to Katakros' sub-faction (he was already being used anyways).

With all due respect, these are the types of subtleties you need to be evaluating en masse to even come close to legitimizing a claim like the one you are making here.

Also, "Death has less battletomes ranking well in tournaments compared to other Grand Alliances" is a pretty big walk back from "is Death the WORST faction in AoS?" Which I feel speaks to some disingenuous arguments being made.

Hello,

You´re totally right, probably that title is better for the things I´m trying to say on the video, and is better for the users in order to try to avoid the click baits. And everything about subtitles is right too.

But about orruks and mawtribes versus seraphon, I thought that most of the armies have the same problem on that match (or vs tzeench).

Greetings.

Not a hater, the way you were talking about the armies, builds, etc.. you seem to only cared about a 1 trick pony builds and didn't even want to look at how to fix the problem you think the army has. Death saves are not one of the problems as you said. Having 3+/4+ or 4+/5+ ethereal and both having an after save is pretty good. Play Beastmen if you want to see bad saves.

Death are comparitively durable in the sense, you will normally always have a die to roll to stop the model from dying. (That's so good for a faction, even more so when you NEED things to stay alive on an objective.)

Unlike my Gloomspite, where I just bring so many of the tiny blighters I can turn my dead pile into a new piece of area terrain after the first fight phase!

I personally didn't agree with the video or a lot of the points raised, my thoughts echo a lot of other points raised in this thread earlier. I don't think we can point to a faction (or Alliance of factions) in AoS and declare it the worst, too much to compare, contrast and every faction has nasty lists stomping around the top tables.

I will say in my experience though, Destruction has lingered near the bottom of the pack for a long time, but thankfully now days the new battletomes (and my beloved troggoths) are doing moderately well and even sometimes pose difficult questions for the metagame depending.

 ElAntiguoGuardián wrote:
So, that´s the question.


I want to discuss about it!!

The post your opinion rather than desperately trying to get clicks?

Write your opinions out on this text based forum instead of desperately trying to get views for your channel.

No need to be toxic about it guys.

This has been a bit of a disappointing thread.

Seeing some stuff about 1d4 going down Id gone over to 4chan and remembered why I dont. Dakka gets it odd bit of vitriol but normally steers clear.

I'd encourage some of the other respondents to do better. Sure there are some users known to stir the pot but all should be treated fairly unless demonstrated otherwise, and then just ignore them. And I dont see anything Guardia has done to deserve such a reception, either in this thread or historically. I think the dehumanising nature of the internet makes many forget theres people on the other end. The old saying treat others how you'd want to be treated and if you wouldnt say it to their face, dont say it online.

In response to the topic at hand, some parts agree some disagree, but Im not that up to date with the meta as just play with a couple of dudes in a garage. Main comment that some have pointed out is on the delivery thats not relevent to the original topic, will send it separately.

 rahxephon wrote:
This has been a bit of a disappointing thread.

Seeing some stuff about 1d4 going down Id gone over to 4chan and remembered why I dont. Dakka gets it odd bit of vitriol but normally steers clear.

I'd encourage some of the other respondents to do better. Sure there are some users known to stir the pot but all should be treated fairly unless demonstrated otherwise, and then just ignore them. And I dont see anything Guardia has done to deserve such a reception, either in this thread or historically. I think the dehumanising nature of the internet makes many forget theres people on the other end. The old saying treat others how you'd want to be treated and if you wouldnt say it to their face, dont say it online.

Because this entire topic is a very poorly and thinly veiled ad to try and get the OP's channel/videos views. Even the title reads like clickbait you'd see for a video. The OP's not actually interested in a discussion, he's just pitching his wannabe YouTuber tripe out the door and hell, he literally has a Patreon link in his signature. I'd just shrug and ignore it if he actually wrote out the contents of his video into text and deposited the video at the end, but he's not actually interested in a 'discussion' here beyond what keeps his thread bumped - ironically, what I'm unintentionally doing by making this post.

It amounts to topical spam in the same way as those viagra or malware bot threads do, but if the algorithm picked up on specifically Warhammer content.