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I mentioned on a thread in general that I actually miss some aspects of the old "vehicle" system, but there were certain aspects of it I was definitely not a fan of. I thought it worked exceptionally well for medium vehicles, basically anything from a rhino up to a leman russ, basically anything expensive enough that the damage table was more than just a technicality, but cheap enough that it exploding in one shot wasn't a gigantic, game-ruining disappointment. I also liked that it frequently allowed infantry to participate against tanks, but only if they could either flank, or get really close.

So, this is a proposal for how we could fold the AV system into 9th edition 40k, hopefully without having to retool point costs to allow it to be played "out of the box" and without greatly affecting the AVERAGE number of antitank hits a heavy unit has to take before it goes down. Obviously, random damage tables will create something of an increase in variability.

Bear in mind, I base this on a "conversion" system for ease of houseruling, not because I think it's the "best" most balanced way to bring this system back, obviously that would be a ground-up rewrite of the current rules.

Here's the basic setup:

-Anything that currently has the VEHICLE or MONSTER keyword becomes a "heavy" target, and uses the new wounding system in place of current Wounds, Toughness, and Save stats.

- Anything that has Toughness 5, Save 4+ (or worse) has AV10/10/10

-For each point of Toughness or Save above that value, you gain 2 points of Armor that can be applied to any facing, with the understanding that most vehicles should have weaker armor at the rear. a Leman Russ battle tank, for example, gains 8 points of armor from its stats, and so can have AV14/13/11. Normal marine tanks gain 6 points, and so can have 13/12/11. Ork Buggies and trukks gain 2 points, and so can have AV11/11/10 or AV12/10/10.

-Damage tables should be D6 roll tables that have "7" and "8" results. For a model with 4-5 wounds, "5-8" on the table should result in the destruction of the model. For models with 6-9 wounds, "6-8" should destroy the vehicle, 10-12 wounds, "7-8" and for models with 13-18 wounds, "8" should destroy the model. For Titanic models, the "8" result should cripple the model in some way and destroy it if it is rolled again.

-Various weapon stats will provide bonuses to damage result rolls.

AP-3: +1
AP-4 or better: +2
Glancing Blow (Pen roll = Armor Value): -2
Weapon's Damage stat is 1 or 2: -1

-Melta and Fusion weapons roll 2d6 and take the highest when making penetration rolls within 1/2 range. Weapons that deal Mortal Wounds to heavy targets trigger an automatic Glancing Blow if they deal 1 mortal wound, or an automatic Penetrating Blow if they would deal more than 1 mortal wound.

-Damage table results come in 2 categories: Temporary, and Permanent. Temporary effects remain until the end of the controlling player's next turn (i.e., if a vehicle sustains damage on your turn, Temporary effects take effect immediately, and remain in effect through your opponent's turn and your following turn). Rolls on damage tables that would result in less than 1 always fail. Rolls that would cause an effect that is already in place "Roll up" to the next higher value on the table until they reach an effect not already in place, unless they are already at the top of the damage table in which case they apply that effect again, if applicable.

-Example Damage Table: Rhino

1 - Crew Shaken. Temporary, subtract 2" from all Moves the vehicle makes in the following turn, and subtract 1 from all hit rolls.
2 - Smoke Launchers Damaged. Permanent. The vehicle's Smoke Launchers can no longer be used if they have not already been used.
3 - Weapon Mount Destroyed. Permanent. The attacking player chooses 1 weapon mounted on the vehicle, this weapon can no longer be used for the remainder of the battle.
4 - Mobility Crippled. Permanent. Subtract 6" from all Moves the vehicle makes for the remainder of the battle.
5 - Occupants Harmed. Temporary. All units inside the transport suffer 1 Strength 4, AP- Damage 1 hit for each model in the unit.
6 - Vehicle Immobilized. Permanent. The vehicle can no longer move and all models targeting it add +1 to all hit rolls.
7 - Vehicle Wrecked. Permanent. The vehicle becomes a Wreck after all occupants perform an emergency disembark.
8 - Vehicle Explodes. Permanent. The vehicle is removed after all occupants perform an emergency disembark, then all units within 6" of the vehicle suffer 1 Strength 4, Ap-1, Damage 1 hit for each model within 6" of the vehicle.

Too much to keep track of, I’d say save it as an option for games where both players agree.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Too much to keep track of, I’d say save it as an option for games where both players agree.

Oh, for SURE this is for when I play against particularly beardy opponents.

It literally starts with both players coming up with their own damage tables for their stuff based on loose guidelines, lol. Also most likely a maximum of like 1k games.

I agree that this feels a little bit unwieldy attached to the rest of 40k. However, I do feel that there's a place for a dedicated "Spearhead" game that's all about vehicles/monsters/ maybe a handful of other units. I don't mind the idea of tracking vehicle damage and pausing to figure out armor facing if the entire game is between a handful of big units.

And that point, you could bring back weapon arcs, vehicle maneuvers, etc. Basically gangs of Commorragh but with vehicles.

Something that always comes up whenever someone suggests bringing back armour facing is the lack of clarity on where one armor facing begins and another ends. You don't seem to have answered that question here. Box imperial vehicles are pretty easy, but where are the corners on, for instance, a wave serpent? Do you measure from the front tip to the far left/right enging housing or to the corner of the disembarkation "wall"? How about on a raider? An asymmetrical kitbashed battle wagon?

Usually a popular solution is to simply define the rear arc by placing a template against the vehicle's butt. This solution doesn't answer where the front vs side arcs are because the majority of vehicles in 40k had the same front armor as they did side armor. But that may not work for what you're going for here.

Monsters using these rules make no sense at all.

 Blndmage wrote:
Monsters using these rules make no sense at all.

Why's that? One of the people I'm discussing running with this is having a great time coming up with damage tables for his big nid gribblies, with them losing limbs and sensory appendages and going on mini-rampages as temporary effects.