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So I'm working on re-writing the 5th edition rule set, pulling in bits and pieces from other editions along the way. I want a little input on one topic in particular.

I've long been frustrated with the way shooting is resolved in 40k, so I took a stab at developing a new approach that I think accounts nicely for all the variable conditions that are possible (multi-wound models, variable toughness, some models in or out of cover, different weapon profiles, etc.) in a single unified method. It also makes the shooting process more engaging for the defending player.

I've outlined it below, and I'm looking to see if there are any logical issues or oversights in the system. I'm aware that this may mess with the balance of things, but there are lots of other little tweaks in the works that will also affect the balance.

Here's the new "unified shooting process"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
START

STEP 1:
Determine how many and which models in the target (defender) unit are visible
(a) Models behind "hard cover" (ruins, rocks, and other non-vegetative cover) that are completely out of site to all firing models are NOT counted as visible
(b) Models behind more than 6” of soft cover (woods, bushes, etc.) from all firing models are NOT counted as visible.

STEP 2:
A model in the attacking unit can shoot so long as at least one enemy model is visible and within its weapon’s shooting range

STEP 3:
Roll to hit for each shooting model. Roll all to hit dice at once, using different color dice as needed for different types of weapons.

STEP 4:
The defender allocates successful hit dice as they wish among their visible models. Each model must be given a hit before any model can be allocated a second hit (and so on for 3rd or 4th round of hits)

STEP 5:
After all hits are allocated, the attacker rolls to wound using the allocated hit dice. Each hit dice uses its associated weapons strength versus the toughness of the model it was allocated to.
Groups of like wound rolls (i.e. same weapon damage, AP, potential cover save etc.) can be taken at the same time for expediency

STEP 6:
After wounds are scored, the defender rolls for saving throws. Each wound can only take one saving throw.
(a) Can use armor save if not negated by the weapon’s AP
(b) Can use a cover save if the model is visible behind any amount of hard cover (4+ save) or up to 6” of soft cover from the point of view of any firing model (5+ save).
(c) Can take a screening save (5+) if at least one line of sight to the target model is traced through an intervening third unit.
(d) Can take an invulnerable save if allowed to
Groups of like saving throw rolls (same weapon damage, AP, cover save etc.) can be taken at the same time for expediency

STEP 7:
Defender allocates the unsaved wounds to models in the unit as follows:
(a) Unsaved wounds can be allocated to ANY model in the unit, regardless of whether it was in LoS or not. However, unsaved wounds cannot be allocated to more models in total than there were visible models to begin with.
(b) Unsaved wounds must be allocated in order of weapon strength, with highest strength weapons allocated first.
(c) If a multi-wound model has already taken an unsaved wound, subsequent unsaved wounds (now or in future shooting attacks) must be allocated to that model first until that model is killed.
(d) If there are unsaved wounds remaining after all visible models (or the equivalent amount) have been killed, these are wasted and result in no further casualties.

END
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel like this gives the defender some control over which models die, give them choices as to whether casualties are taken from the front or back (or wherever else) in the unit. This could mean that casualties are removed from the back, even if out of sight, in order to preserve more exposed models at the front that might be in better position to charge. Conversely, the visible models might all be killed, leaving the ones truly out of sight alive and potentially no longer visible to another attacking unit.

There is a little bit of creative weirdness - i.e. you could allocate a high damage / high AP hit on a model with an invulnerable save, potentially fail that save, but then allocate that unsaved wound to a different model in the last step. But, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. In this system, an unsaved wound is an unsaved wound at the end of the day.

Thoughts?

Make fast dice the default and then 9th Shooting is great.

 Mezmorki wrote:
Determine how many and which models in the target (defender) unit are visible
(a) Models behind "hard cover" (ruins, rocks, and other non-vegetative cover) that are completely out of site to all firing models are NOT counted as visible
(b) Models behind more than 6” of soft cover (woods, bushes, etc.) from all firing models are NOT counted as visible.

How do you define visible? From my POV? I rarely play with invisible models, I will just walk around the board to see them.
(a)(b) Behind relative to what?

STEP 2:
A model in the attacking unit can shoot so long as at least one enemy model is visible and within its weapon’s shooting range

Well, all my Immortals can see your Stompa, can they all shoot the Truck?

STEP 3:
Roll to hit for each shooting model. Roll all to hit dice at once, using different color dice as needed for different types of weapons.

Colour, we are not savages. /s

STEP 4:
The defender allocates successful hit dice as they wish among their visible models. Each model must be given a hit before any model can be allocated a second hit (and so on for 3rd or 4th round of hits)

STEP 5:
After all hits are allocated, the attacker rolls to wound using the allocated hit dice. Each hit dice uses its associated weapons strength versus the toughness of the model it was allocated to.
Groups of like wound rolls (i.e. same weapon damage, AP, potential cover save etc.) can be taken at the same time for expediency

STEP 6:
After wounds are scored, the defender rolls for saving throws. Each wound can only take one saving throw.
(a) Can use armor save if not negated by the weapon’s AP
(b) Can use a cover save if the model is visible behind any amount of hard cover (4+ save) or up to 6” of soft cover from the point of view of any firing model (5+ save).
(c) Can take a screening save (5+) if at least one line of sight to the target model is traced through an intervening third unit.
(d) Can take an invulnerable save if allowed to
Groups of like saving throw rolls (same weapon damage, AP, cover save etc.) can be taken at the same time for expediency

Too time-consuming IMO, YMMW.

STEP 7:
Defender allocates the unsaved wounds to models in the unit as follows:
(a) Unsaved wounds can be allocated to ANY model in the unit, regardless of whether it was in LoS or not. However, unsaved wounds cannot be allocated to more models in total than there were visible models to begin with.
(b) Unsaved wounds must be allocated in order of weapon strength, with highest strength weapons allocated first.
(c) If a multi-wound model has already taken an unsaved wound, subsequent unsaved wounds (now or in future shooting attacks) must be allocated to that model first until that model is killed.
(d) If there are unsaved wounds remaining after all visible models (or the equivalent amount) have been killed, these are wasted and result in no further casualties.

So after a Terminator or SS bearer fails its save you can remove a basic DW Veteran? Seems unfair and it will matter a tonne.

 vict0988 wrote:
Make fast dice the default and then 9th Shooting is great.

 Mezmorki wrote:
Determine how many and which models in the target (defender) unit are visible
(a) Models behind "hard cover" (ruins, rocks, and other non-vegetative cover) that are completely out of site to all firing models are NOT counted as visible
(b) Models behind more than 6” of soft cover (woods, bushes, etc.) from all firing models are NOT counted as visible.

How do you define visible? From my POV? I rarely play with invisible models, I will just walk around the board to see them.
(a)(b) Behind relative to what?

Need to clarify the language more of course, but this would be visible using line of sight from the firing model(s), and so behind cover would likewise be relative to the point of view to the firing model.

STEP 2:
A model in the attacking unit can shoot so long as at least one enemy model in the target unit is visible and within its weapon’s shooting range

Well, all my Immortals can see your Stompa, can they all shoot the Truck?

Added "in the target unit" above.

STEP 3:
Roll to hit for each shooting model. Roll all to hit dice at once, using different color dice as needed for different types of weapons.

Colour, we are not savages. /s

STEP 4:
The defender allocates successful hit dice as they wish among their visible models. Each model must be given a hit before any model can be allocated a second hit (and so on for 3rd or 4th round of hits)

STEP 5:
After all hits are allocated, the attacker rolls to wound using the allocated hit dice. Each hit dice uses its associated weapons strength versus the toughness of the model it was allocated to.
Groups of like wound rolls (i.e. same weapon damage, AP, potential cover save etc.) can be taken at the same time for expediency

STEP 6:
After wounds are scored, the defender rolls for saving throws. Each wound can only take one saving throw.
(a) Can use armor save if not negated by the weapon’s AP
(b) Can use a cover save if the model is visible behind any amount of hard cover (4+ save) or up to 6” of soft cover from the point of view of any firing model (5+ save).
(c) Can take a screening save (5+) if at least one line of sight to the target model is traced through an intervening third unit.
(d) Can take an invulnerable save if allowed to
Groups of like saving throw rolls (same weapon damage, AP, cover save etc.) can be taken at the same time for expediency

Too time-consuming IMO, YMMW.

It depends. It could range from pretty quick to more time-consuming for sure.

STEP 7:
Defender allocates the unsaved wounds to models in the unit as follows:
(a) Unsaved wounds can be allocated to ANY model in the unit, regardless of whether it was in LoS or not. However, unsaved wounds cannot be allocated to more models in total than there were visible models to begin with.
(b) Unsaved wounds must be allocated in order of weapon strength, with highest strength weapons allocated first.
(c) If a multi-wound model has already taken an unsaved wound, subsequent unsaved wounds (now or in future shooting attacks) must be allocated to that model first until that model is killed.
(d) If there are unsaved wounds remaining after all visible models (or the equivalent amount) have been killed, these are wasted and result in no further casualties.

So after a Terminator or SS bearer fails its save you can remove a basic DW Veteran? Seems unfair and it will matter a tonne.

This is the one part I'm not sure about. I'm trying to strike a balance between 5th editions wound allocation system, 4th edition (can remove nearly any model in the target unit) and other editions (6th, 7th) where wounds automatically get applied to the closest model first.

Open to other ideas!

Oh, I'm starting to remember how that edition went bizarre again...

You get into situations where different models in the firing unit can see different models in the target unit. For instance, you could have a situation where one model in the firing unit can see a dozen models, the rest of the firing models can only see one model (even just the same model).

Naturally, if you're trying to control how many models you can kill (usually maximize, but sometimes not), being able to move one model and change how many models get killed would be a really big thing. Especially since, as I was about to compare it to sniping characters by manipulating visibility using mobile obstacles (like rhinos), that would also work.

So you have this problem:
The rationale for removing any model in the unit instead of the one you shot at is that other models in the unit rush forward to pick up the valuable equipment. But is that "valuable" piece of equipment really worth losing the entire unit over? Compare:
Situation A: You've got twenty dudes in the unit, the enemy have arranged to snipe your special weapon model.
Situation B: You've got twenty dudes in the unit, the enemy have arranged to snipe some grunt in the unit.
In situation A, you maybe want to risk all of the dudes in the unit to save that model. In situation B, you probably don't care and would rather just lose the one model.

That seems like it would be the more engaging problem to solve.

My quick fix for the problem of using mobile LOS-block to snipe characters/special weapons is to borrow the line-of-fire restriction out of historical wargames: models can't shoot if their line of fire passes within 1" of a friendly model.

 solkan wrote:
Oh, I'm starting to remember how that edition went bizarre again...

Thanks for clarifying that a bit more. Much appreciated.

It seems like it would be easiest to just say that any models In the target unit that are visible and in range of at least one enemy model are valid targets for allocating wounds and being removed as a casualty, regardless of what actual firing model was the making a given shot.

I've been refining my process (not reflected in the above) and the logic seems to be working. You fire with all models at the same time, and the work out the allocation and resolution of wounds among the visible and in range target models. Seems to be straight forward, handles complex units and mixed cover save, and avoids too much BS shenanigans that come out of having to fine tune model placement to force a certain hit or prevent a certain death.