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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Breton wrote:
Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.

Could be useful for real elite armies.

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Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Breton wrote:
Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.


Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/06 10:17:11


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Longtime Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.


Yes. Quite why is a mystery, but this has been the case for the last 3 years.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





tneva82 wrote:
Breton wrote:
Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites, FA and HS stayed 0-3.


Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.


I'm not going to check for my own santiy. I thought it was always 0-3 and that was the point of the.. oh I forget which one - Spearhead? Detach was for extra elites. No wonder people have been looking at me funny for so long when I talked about the Medics/champions/etc being split out. OK I checked. And I think I'm losing my mind over all the times I fought with this and didn't have to.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Well vanguard(the extra elite one) gave you detachment with plenty elites without troop tax. Also gave you extra CP in 8e so if you had 3 HQ and 3+ elites only reason to NOT take vanguard was you already had 3 detachments. So not that surprising you miss because generally you had tons of slots due to multiple detachments.

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Stormin' Stompa




Italy

Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





tneva82 wrote:
Well vanguard(the extra elite one) gave you detachment with plenty elites without troop tax. Also gave you extra CP in 8e so if you had 3 HQ and 3+ elites only reason to NOT take vanguard was you already had 3 detachments. So not that surprising you miss because generally you had tons of slots due to multiple detachments.

Nah, I usually did single detach lists, when I added a second Detach it was usually for a LOW, or Flyers or something. Even had I known this I wouldn't have been at 6 Elites, but most of my lists started at 4 Elites and then got trimmed to three for the max I THOUGHT I had.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.


If you were doing SM and trying to mimic the Command Squad from previous it would cost you 4 Elites slots all on it's own - when it used to be 1HQ or zero slots if taken with an HQ. 1 Slot for the Squad, 1 for the Ancient, 1 for the Champion, 1 for the Apothecary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/06 10:49:04


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

I think the reason was units like command squads no longer being one squad, or characters like repentia mistresses being cut out of their units. You ended up with a lot of loose characters that you didn’t want in the HQ slot.

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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Breton wrote:
Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.


I think most factions actually have a fortification. It’s been a trend lately. Who doesn’t?

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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Nevelon wrote:
Breton wrote:
Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.


I think most factions actually have a fortification. It’s been a trend lately. Who doesn’t?


SM only have the ROB tile.
Generic CSM does, Specific CSM (WorldEaters/Death Guard/TKSons/Emperor's Children) do not but might be able to use the CSM generic one I don't know.
Necrons only have a ROB tile
Only Harlequins have one from Eldar
IG don't.

There are a lot of old fortificaitons that are unaligned and might get a rework to get <Imperium> or similar. The Harlequinn Eldar Webway might go Eldar wide or maybe it already is, and just isn't listed as such where I'm looking.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Both SM/Necrons have new ones officially leaked and will probably release w/codexes. Drop bunker thing and the pylons.

I’ve not bothered to look up the details, but If all you need to do is share a keyword, and the big ones count, all sub-factions should be able to use the chaos/eldar ones.

While a lot of the generic stuff is very appropriate for guard, I think they kept the keyword off it so it could be used more generally.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




If it can be used by other armies, then it is great. I often want to have more elite opitons then I can fit in to a batalion slot.

2-3 paladin units, 2 apothecaries, maybe an ancient and maybe a my new dreadnought, if GW ever update GK with primaris dreadnough models.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/07 14:47:16


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Nevelon wrote:
Both SM/Necrons have new ones officially leaked and will probably release w/codexes. Drop bunker thing and the pylons.

I’ve not bothered to look up the details, but If all you need to do is share a keyword, and the big ones count, all sub-factions should be able to use the chaos/eldar ones.

While a lot of the generic stuff is very appropriate for guard, I think they kept the keyword off it so it could be used more generally.


The big keyword doesn't work if you want to keep Chapter Tactics. Have to use the <Chapter> keyword - I assume the Klans/Septs etc work the same way? New Models/units was one of the things I wondered wasn't being foreshadowed. So you get the 1CP refund, but you lose your chapter tactic or equivalent.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Breton wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Both SM/Necrons have new ones officially leaked and will probably release w/codexes. Drop bunker thing and the pylons.

I’ve not bothered to look up the details, but If all you need to do is share a keyword, and the big ones count, all sub-factions should be able to use the chaos/eldar ones.

While a lot of the generic stuff is very appropriate for guard, I think they kept the keyword off it so it could be used more generally.


The big keyword doesn't work if you want to keep Chapter Tactics. Have to use the <Chapter> keyword - I assume the Klans/Septs etc work the same way? New Models/units was one of the things I wondered wasn't being foreshadowed. So you get the 1CP refund, but you lose your chapter tactic or equivalent.

You don't lose chapter tactics, or other factions equivalents, if you have a second detachment that shares a faction keyword. You will, however, lose doctrines if you're playing Loyalist Dogs and the second detachment doesn't share the CHAPTER keyword with your other detachments. That's just a loyalists "problem".
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

As others pointed out 0-6 Elites in Battalion are because many Pre-8th Edition Elite units that had character-like models in them (Company Champion, Apothecary, etc) were split out into being separate units. They had to give enough slots in a Battalion or Brigade to allow you to use them.

As for Faction-specific Fortification that allows the CP Refund, we have:
Various Tau options like the Tidewall Shieldline
Adepta Sororitas Battle Sanctum
The Chaos Necolith Crown
The Nurgle Feculant Gnarlmaw
The Ork Mekboy Workshop
The Genestealer Cults Tectonic Fragdrill

And I'm not sure that is all of the ones that are not Unaligned.
   
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Right behind you.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

Guard players. Command Squads are Elite choices, as are Veterans. Both are ways to bring Vox-Casters to the field, since Commanders don't get Vox-Casters as wargear for some dumb reason.
My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.

Can't comment on 9th, since playing games isn't happening for awhile here...but again, there's definitely armies out there which can benefit from the multiple Elite choices due to 'utility' characters in Elite.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Breton wrote:
Now for the next one:

Does the Fortification Network getitng a 1CP refund if your Fortification(s) share faction with your Warlord suggest the Fortifications are going to get Alignment tags? They're going to release a crap ton of new fortifications? Most of them are unaligned, a lot - if not most - factions don't even have a fortification.


To be any use they would first need to either release whole bunch of SMALL ones or rework rules. As is for example sister one became rather unplayable as you need more or less 11"x11" square of empty plot somewhere in your deployment zone(preferably) or within 6" of table edge(where you could at least outflank with strategic reserve though no benefit from it until T3 is still harsh...).

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
4663
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.


Bloody rose Sisters of battle straight up don't work with less than 6 slots. Ideally we'd want 8 but that's not worth 3 CP. The problem is you're thinking 'well I only need 3 of my elite unit' not 'my 2 best melee units I want to run multiples of plus their associated buff characters are all elites choices'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/06 16:26:19


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Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.


Raises hand.

I do. As in me personally. I like to run a lot of dreadnoughts.
Most of my dreads are elites.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Blood Angels are another good example. As well as all the usual Marine Elites, most of the Blood Angel "flavour" units go there too (Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, all the Dreads).
They also get a lot more use out of Vanguard than the more fluffy Fast Attack slot Assault Marines, sad as that fact is.

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Stormin' Stompa




Italy

ccs wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.


Raises hand.

I do. As in me personally. I like to run a lot of dreadnoughts.
Most of my dreads are elites.


Lucky you. Mine are all HS, the most crowded section in the codex.

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Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

 Blackie wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.


Raises hand.

I do. As in me personally. I like to run a lot of dreadnoughts.
Most of my dreads are elites.


Lucky you. Mine are all HS, the most crowded section in the codex.


Oh I've got plenty of those as well.
   
Made in au
Rookie Pilot




Brisbane

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.

My ork, SW, and former Drukhari armies never needed more than 3 elites in any of my games, and I'm referring to any editions I've ever played (starting with 3rd). Tipycally I just take 1-2 elites with both my current armies in 9th.


Guard come to mind:

Commissars
Platoon Commanders
Wyrdvane Psykers
Astropaths
Ratlings
Veterans

I find the first 2 can be very handy, the Psykers are helpful, and I don't really use the last 2, but I have seen other people spam them...

I will not rest until the Tabletop Imperial Guard has been reduced to complete mediocrity. This is completely reflected in the lore. 
   
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Mysterious Techpriest




Don't know who needs to see this, but it's the first time I've seen it on several thumb-throughs of the BRB so it's possible to miss it. Battalions are now 0-6 elites


As others have said, it's been that way since the beginning of 8th - which is somewhere between 3-5 years (they are starting to run together for me lol).


Y
eah I was aware of that, but never exploited it. Not even sure about who really needs 4+ elites.


There are several armies who almost literally can't function without them. Death Guard comes to mind for example. GSC if I'm not mistaken? Anyone wanting to play a Dreadnaught marine army would need 6 - there's actually a lot of armies and builds that need those slots but aren't exploiting or abusing it imo.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

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Tyel wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Yes. Been like this since 8th ed launched.


For sanity test I even checked 8th ed rulebook to ensure I haven't been cheating all 8th ed. 0-6 there.


Yes. Quite why is a mystery, but this has been the case for the last 3 years.


GW split up a bunch of the "Command Squad" style units into small, supporting characters usually in the Elites slot.

EX: Ravenwing Command Squad became Ravenwing Champ, Ravenwing Apoth, Ravenwing Ancient.

Regimental Advisors became Astropath, Master of the Fleet, Master of Ordnance, all Elites.


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

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I actually never noticed, and when looking, it struck me that Brigades don't even continue the trend and just include 8 Elites. Where is the logic in that?

   
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I often run at least 4 elites but can easily fit 6.

Terminators, contemptors, berzerkers, chosen, possessed, greater possessed being the main ones I like to use and most of these I feel require them to be taken in pairs.

I really noticed the change to my list design when before it didn't matter.
   
 
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